Losses tournament

JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
I don't know exactly what to call these tournaments but I heard about them last night.

It involves giving the lesser players, well for a lack of a better set of words, LOSS CHIPS, but their not really chips, but the way I have heard it, a lesser player might start the tournament with the equivalent of 5 losses, which means that they get to lose 5 times before they are out of the tournament. A better player might be given say, 2 losses and if he loses two matches, he goes home and is out of the tournament. Last person standing wins it.

I don't know much more than this. But if any of you have heard about these type of events, I would love to learn more about the details. It sounds like lesser players get a chance to play more matches in an event like this than in other open events. I know it sucks to go two and out like I did last night.

JoeyA
 
I'm sure it can be run any number of ways, the ones I have played in were tied to APA ratings. As an example, an APA 7 might get 2 chips, a 6 3 chips, a 5 4 chips, ...... After a loss, the losing player throws one chip in the bucket. When a player is out of chips, they're out of the tournament.

Each round is a new draw. Two decks of cards are used, have identical cards based upon the number of players. Spread them face down on the table each round, the match ups are based on the two players that draw the same card. If there is an odd number of players, you have one extra card. Say there are 11 players, there would be two sets of 11 cards each. The bye is given to the player that doesn't have an opponent draw an identical card. As players are eliminated, cards are removed from the deck.

This can obviously be revised in any manner the tournament director decides upon. If you have a really large field, a 7 rated player may only get one chip with each ranking below that getting one less chip than normal. Small field could get more chips.

I've seen this where it is a weekly tournament. In that case, if someone wins one week, the next time they play, they get one less chip.

I've played in several of these, I thought they were a lot of fun and they provide the lower ranked players with a reasonable chance to do well. With each round being a new draw, the higher ranked players may end up drawing each other and knocking each other out. It could come down the final round where a 7 has one chip and a 4 has 4 chips left, so the 7 has to win 4 in a row. It also guarantees the lower ranked players a minimum number of matches they get to play. Each round is one game.
 
nobcitypool said:
I'm sure it can be run any number of ways, the ones I have played in were tied to APA ratings. As an example, an APA 7 might get 2 chips, a 6 3 chips, a 5 4 chips, ...... After a loss, the losing player throws one chip in the bucket. When a player is out of chips, they're out of the tournament.

Each round is a new draw. Two decks of cards are used, have identical cards based upon the number of players. Spread them face down on the table each round, the match ups are based on the two players that draw the same card. If there is an odd number of players, you have one extra card. Say there are 11 players, there would be two sets of 11 cards each. The bye is given to the player that doesn't have an opponent draw an identical card. As players are eliminated, cards are removed from the deck.

This can obviously be revised in any manner the tournament director decides upon. If you have a really large field, a 7 rated player may only get one chip with each ranking below that getting one less chip than normal. Small field could get more chips.

I've seen this where it is a weekly tournament. In that case, if someone wins one week, the next time they play, they get one less chip.

I've played in several of these, I thought they were a lot of fun and they provide the lower ranked players with a reasonable chance to do well. With each round being a new draw, the higher ranked players may end up drawing each other and knocking each other out. It could come down the final round where a 7 has one chip and a 4 has 4 chips left, so the 7 has to win 4 in a row. It also guarantees the lower ranked players a minimum number of matches they get to play. Each round is one game.
Click to expand...

First of all I would like to say thank you for the explanation. I am still unclear on some things. In the ones you have played, were they 8 ball or 9 ball? Did you play one game vs your opponent or was it a race? How long do these tournaments typically last?
 
nobcitypool said:
I'm sure it can be run any number of ways, the ones I have played in were tied to APA ratings. As an example, an APA 7 might get 2 chips, a 6 3 chips, a 5 4 chips, ...... After a loss, the losing player throws one chip in the bucket. When a player is out of chips, they're out of the tournament.

Each round is a new draw. Two decks of cards are used, have identical cards based upon the number of players. Spread them face down on the table each round, the match ups are based on the two players that draw the same card. If there is an odd number of players, you have one extra card. Say there are 11 players, there would be two sets of 11 cards each. The bye is given to the player that doesn't have an opponent draw an identical card. As players are eliminated, cards are removed from the deck.

This can obviously be revised in any manner the tournament director decides upon. If you have a really large field, a 7 rated player may only get one chip with each ranking below that getting one less chip than normal. Small field could get more chips.

I've seen this where it is a weekly tournament. In that case, if someone wins one week, the next time they play, they get one less chip.

I've played in several of these, I thought they were a lot of fun and they provide the lower ranked players with a reasonable chance to do well. With each round being a new draw, the higher ranked players may end up drawing each other and knocking each other out. It could come down the final round where a 7 has one chip and a 4 has 4 chips left, so the 7 has to win 4 in a row. It also guarantees the lower ranked players a minimum number of matches they get to play. Each round is one game.
Click to expand...

YES! This is the kind of information I was looking for.

Is this kind of tournament normally played on 7 footers or 9 footers? I realize it can be played on either, just wanted to know which is more common.

Also, how long do these type of tournaments last? Say 32 or 64 players?
Are Calcuttas used in a weekly tournament like this?

Any more information on these type of events would be appreciated.

Thanks,
JoeyA
 
I've only played it on 7' bar boxes and 8 ball. I see no reason it couldn't be played on 8', 9' or 10' tables and also with 9 ball or 10 ball. It would just be a matter of determining the "appropriate" or fair handicapping designation for each player. The three different states I've played it in had a rather significant APA league influence so they all used APA S/L ratings.

When I've played it, each round is one game. That's the idea of the chips with increasing amounts of chips for lower S/L players, you don't need a handicapped race, the handicap is built in already.

If you had 32 players, I'm going to guess it would take 10 to 14 rounds to get it over with. You can do the math to figure that out. The first 1/2 of the tournament can go a little slow if you've got a big field as you likely don't have enough tables for everyone to play each round, so you essentially have a double round (hope that makes sense). I'm going to say 32 players is probably going take somewhere in the range of 4 hours.

If you have 64 players, you make the tournament go faster by decreasing the chip count as I previously explained. That way, players are dropping out one round sooner.

Obviously, the format gives the lower s/l players a reasonable chance, regardless of the table size and game. They can get lucky in that one game and knock out a higher level player. Races favor the better player. I think this tournament is a great way to attract a lower s/l player. A 3 or 4 has to be thinking "Wow, for a $10 entry fee (or whatever), I'm guaranteed at least 6 games (or however many chips they get) and with the fresh draw every round, odds favor me drawing some people at or very near my skill level."

I found every one of these I played in to be a lot of fun. More importantly, the ones I played in had a very diverse players field, in terms of skill levels, and it seemed like everyone was having a lot of fun.

Two places I played this at had it as a weekly tournament running for 6 or 12 months. They took a small % of each entry fee and threw that into a pot for an end of the session winners tournament. I think anyone that won or finished 2nd then got to play in that tournament for what would be a fairly good sized prize as those small percentages taken each week added up over 6 to 12 months.

I first played in one of these at a pool hall/bar in Spartanburg, SC when I was there to take a lesson from Stevie Moore. I'm going to guess the place had about 16 7' valley bar boxes. There had to be somewhere around 50 people show up on a Friday night to play, it started around 8:00 to 8:30. I made it to the quarter finals and knocked the guy out that had won it 3 straight weeks. I came in as a 6 but due to the large field, only got 2 chips where it would normally be 3 with a smaller field. I left when I got knocked out, around 12:30, I'm guessing it took another 1 to 1 1/2 hours to finish it up. I had a great time and it appeared the people there were having a blast. This was a weekly event and I was told it wasn't unusual to have that size of a turnout.
 
We did a similar thing at a weekly tournament here. Everyone had a rating from 8 - 2. Best players were 8's. Ratings were adjusted weekly as the director kept stats on everyone from previous tournaments. Tournaments were double elimination. Match up was random and performed by the program the director used. You rating was also the number of games you had to win to win the race. Tournament alternated between 8 and 9 ball weekly. Lowest number of games for 9 ball was 3; so a person rated as a 2 wouldn't be on the hill or win the match after making the 9 on the snap. Unknown players were rated high and adjusted over time.
 
Joey, there wasn't a Calcutta at any I played at. Again, the ones I played at were primarily weekly events. I think it would be a bit tough to run a Calcutta due to the luck factor involved. You could buy the favorite and by the luck of the draw, he/she could end up playing the other 6 best players the first 6 rounds. That's kind of the beauty of the format and I believe, what attracts lower and middle level players to play.

I'm not sure this is a format your local shortstops and A players would be in love with but I think it is a great format to draw more people into the bar. I guarantee you this, if that first tournament in Spartanburg I played in didn't make that bar a ton of money that night, the bartender and waitresses had to leave rich with what they pilfered. Given the format, it felt like people weren't as serious and stressed out, particularly in the earlier rounds where they still had chips in their pocket. So they seemed more inclined to drink,eat and socialize than what I've seen at more serious higher level tournaments.
 
Man I've never heard about that format before. Honestly that sounds like a blast. I would definitely be up for playing in a tournament like that, but I've never seen one around here. For those who have played the format is each round a short race or is it simply 1 game per round?
 
What was the typical entry fee of the tournaments?
Did the bar/pool room add any money to these tournaments?

THANK YOU FOR ALL OF THE GREAT INFORMATION!

Pool rooms need to find a way to allow people to have more fun at pool events. This sounds like one way to have more fun, at least for the majority of people that frequent pool rooms.

JoeyA

nobcitypool said:
I've only played it on 7' bar boxes and 8 ball. I see no reason it couldn't be played on 8', 9' or 10' tables and also with 9 ball or 10 ball. It would just be a matter of determining the "appropriate" or fair handicapping designation for each player. The three different states I've played it in had a rather significant APA league influence so they all used APA S/L ratings.

When I've played it, each round is one game. That's the idea of the chips with increasing amounts of chips for lower S/L players, you don't need a handicapped race, the handicap is built in already.

If you had 32 players, I'm going to guess it would take 10 to 14 rounds to get it over with. You can do the math to figure that out. The first 1/2 of the tournament can go a little slow if you've got a big field as you likely don't have enough tables for everyone to play each round, so you essentially have a double round (hope that makes sense). I'm going to say 32 players is probably going take somewhere in the range of 4 hours.

If you have 64 players, you make the tournament go faster by decreasing the chip count as I previously explained. That way, players are dropping out one round sooner.

Obviously, the format gives the lower s/l players a reasonable chance, regardless of the table size and game. They can get lucky in that one game and knock out a higher level player. Races favor the better player. I think this tournament is a great way to attract a lower s/l player. A 3 or 4 has to be thinking "Wow, for a $10 entry fee (or whatever), I'm guaranteed at least 6 games (or however many chips they get) and with the fresh draw every round, odds favor me drawing some people at or very near my skill level."

I found every one of these I played in to be a lot of fun. More importantly, the ones I played in had a very diverse players field, in terms of skill levels, and it seemed like everyone was having a lot of fun.

Two places I played this at had it as a weekly tournament running for 6 or 12 months. They took a small % of each entry fee and threw that into a pot for an end of the session winners tournament. I think anyone that won or finished 2nd then got to play in that tournament for what would be a fairly good sized prize as those small percentages taken each week added up over 6 to 12 months.

I first played in one of these at a pool hall/bar in Spartanburg, SC when I was there to take a lesson from Stevie Moore. I'm going to guess the place had about 16 7' valley bar boxes. There had to be somewhere around 50 people show up on a Friday night to play, it started around 8:00 to 8:30. I made it to the quarter finals and knocked the guy out that had won it 3 straight weeks. I came in as a 6 but due to the large field, only got 2 chips where it would normally be 3 with a smaller field. I left when I got knocked out, around 12:30, I'm guessing it took another 1 to 1 1/2 hours to finish it up. I had a great time and it appeared the people there were having a blast. This was a weekly event and I was told it wasn't unusual to have that size of a turnout.
Click to expand...
 
StraightPoolIU said:
Man I've never heard about that format before. Honestly that sounds like a blast. I would definitely be up for playing in a tournament like that, but I've never seen one around here. For those who have played the format is each round a short race or is it simply 1 game per round?
Click to expand...

1 game per round.
New drawing each round.

JoeyA
 
Joey, the ones I've played in had low entry fees, $8 to $15 if memory serves me correctly. Again, this isn't the type of tournament put together to attract the road warriors, hustlers and top players. The format attracts a larger number of players with diverse skill levels. The bar/pool hall makes out on the drink/food sales big time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top