NAPA Nationals - No Diamond Tables

You have no clue what you're talking about. It may work in the utopian dream in your head, but not in the real world.


While the BCAPL cannot dictate what the NAPA does in their events they certainly have the ability to change the way they structure their league sanctioning to ensure that the tables that are played on are standardized. The comment that

Mark Griffin said:
Wisconsin BCAPL just had their state tournament and their board decided to use Valley tables.

Is the one that got me to respond, not the initial post that started this thread. The BCAPL can certainly decide to mandate what people that decide to sanction BCAPL do if they decide to go that route. They might piss some regional people off, they might lose some local league charters who don't like the hardball stance, but the option IS there to do it.

Yeah, it is my "utopian dream in my head" where pool is more then a thing that 1000 people on AZBilliards give two shits about. But, lets do the same thing for the next 20 years, it is not like any of us here are mortal and have anything but time on our hands to see the state of this sport improve from it's current completely crappy reality.

If things cannot be done as I say they SHOULD be done then that IS the problem and it is time to fix it.

Mark said it himself

Mark Griffin said:
It makes a difference to the players which tables are used.


AND it makes a difference what tables are used for the spectators as well. If this sport wants to "continue to" grow then it better start to present itself to the players and the spectators on the equipment they want to use.
 
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I'm curious who you actually asked (i.e, did you ask your LO or were you just letting this thread stand as your question) and what you actually asked.

I ran it by my LO and he gave me an answer right away. The tables will be Valleys.

Of course your LO gave you the answer right away. I'm assuming you asked them recently (in the past 2 weeks), since before that point the answer would have been Diamond. That was the whole point of the thread.
 
At minimum when playing in a state or regional tournament regardless of what brand of table is used there should be a certain standard that the tables should meet, like GOOD playing condition. Not cloth installed by first time hacks trying to earn a little extra beer money.
 
I, too, finally got an answer from my LO on the tables... They will be Valleys. Apparently they didn't renew the contract with Diamond for whatever reason.

Also - if anyone else is interested, they extended the registration deadline another week, to allow for all the APA LTC's to conclude so people could plan accordingly. As of a few minutes ago the numbers have almost doubled since last week for entrants.
 
AND it makes a difference what tables are used for the spectators as well. If this sport wants to "continue to" grow then it better start to present itself to the players and the spectators on the equipment they want to use.

This is 100% correct.

This morning I asked 20 random people "Why don't you play or watch pool?"

Every one of them said "Because of a lack of standardized equipment."
 
Stljohnny,

Where do you go to see the number and the names of the entrants?
Thanks,

Mark Griffin

I, too, finally got an answer from my LO on the tables... They will be Valleys. Apparently they didn't renew the contract with Diamond for whatever reason.

Also - if anyone else is interested, they extended the registration deadline another week, to allow for all the APA LTC's to conclude so people could plan accordingly. As of a few minutes ago the numbers have almost doubled since last week for entrants.
 
Many on both sides of the debate here have been unclear at best, and misleading or ignorant at worst. Here is the bottom line. The BCAPL absolutely can demand whatever they want from anyone using their name. Whenever someone is sanctioned by the BCAPL, it is a contractual agreement, and anything--anything-- can be stipulated in a contract. If the BCAPL wanted to stipulate that in order to be sanctioned by the BCAPL that you had to use a certain table for your event or league, they most certainly could demand it, and they could enforce it.

The problem is that the BCAPL would lose a lot of money by doing this, so it doesn't make good business sense. Let's face it, the BCAPL wants to see the best for pool, and wants the players to have what they want, but first and foremost for any business is what is best for the business. They aren't a charity and have to keep their own self interest in mind as well, and particularly when push comes to shove their self interest is (and should be) priority #1.

If the BCAPL demanded the use of diamond tables in order to receive sanctioning, there would be a severe drop in revenue for the BCAPL due to less tournaments, less leagues, and less players. Many areas don't even have diamond tables, so there would be no BCAPL league in those areas, which means less income for BCAPL. In other areas, the league would be limited to the few places that do have diamond tables, which means a much smaller league with less players, which means less income for BCAPL. And that is assuming the leagues would even choose to stay with BCAPL in those circumstances. Most would probably just choose to convert to another league system besides BCAPL so they could keep more members and play wherever and on whatever. As for state tournaments and the like, many promoters wouldn't want to pay the additional cost for Diamond tables, and the tournaments either wouldn't happen at all, or they too would switch over to another league system, again a massive loss of revenue for BCAPL due to lost events and lost players. For any national league to require diamond tables would probably put that league system out of business. To require it only on regional and state events would ensure that many of those events would cease existing, or would switch to another league system, causing a serious loss of income for BCAPL. You could argue that any or all of this would be a serious loss for pool as a whole as well.

As for what is best for pool, who knows. You can argue that having a lot less tournaments and leagues and players but where they are playing on better equipment is better for pool. You can argue that having more leagues and tournaments and players playing on a variety of equipment that is not always ideal is better for pool, which probably makes more sense. But it doesn't really matter because what you can't argue is that a national league should demand that everyone has to use only diamond tables when it isn't realistic or feasible and would be business suicide.
 
This is 100% correct.

This morning I asked 20 random people "Why don't you play or watch pool?"

Every one of them said "Because of a lack of standardized equipment."

recently a respected voice in the industry advocated standardizing on only ONE GAME in order to gain interest of the Public. In other words no 1P, Straight Pool, All Around Tournies etc
 
Well, it looks like my question was answered in that the deadline to register is tomorrow and corporate hasn't said a word about the tables. I'm not surprised. Disappointed, but not surprised.

i have a poll going in another thread asking what tables people play their weekly leagues on.

only 72 people have voted so far but the majority play on valleys. curious as to what you play on locally . if you play on diamonds every week i can understand your frustration on not playing on diamonds at the nationals.

i think a lot of people are like me believing it really does not matter what brand of table they play on as long as it is well maintained.

what if people who never play on diamonds during regular league complained about having to play on diamonds at nationals ? lol.
 
I play on Valleys for league. I have a Diamond at home. When I bought my Diamond, if they delivered a Valley, I would be rightfully pissed. Similarly if I bought my entry, paid for a hotel, took time off work and flew across country to play in a tournament where I was told before I booked everything that Diamonds would be used, only to show up and play on Valleys, I would be pissed. And that's exactly what happened. Like I've said a million times. I don't care what the tournament is being played on. I'm not all that good at pool, and don't have much chance of doing a whole lot there. But when I pay for something, I expect to get what I paid for. If I paid to play on Valleys, there would be no complaint. But that's not the case and thus there is a complaint. I went last year and did fairly well in the C bracket, finishing 5th/6th. I had a good time, and am looking forward to the challenge of the B bracket this year. I will go, since everything is already paid for, and I will play and enjoy myself. But I won't be making the same mistake next year.

It's a simple matter of getting what I pay for, and nothing more. I expect a certain level of honesty and integrity in companies where I invest my time and money and I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation. If you're going to play on Valleys, tell people you'll be playing on Valleys. If you aren't sure, tell them that as well. If you were "sure" it would be played on Diamonds and you touted that all the way up through 3 weeks before the tournament and the deal fell through, man up and announce it. Things happen...that's life. But keeping it under wraps until the deadline passes for tournament entry refunds, and then further keeping it under wraps through the registration deadline because you don't want to deter anyone else that wants to sign up, is completely unacceptable to me. It might not be to you, and that's fine. But it is to me.
 
Is the one that got me to respond, not the initial post that started this thread. The BCAPL can certainly decide to mandate what people that decide to sanction BCAPL do if they decide to go that route. They might piss some regional people off, they might lose some local league charters who don't like the hardball stance, but the option IS there to do it.

Yeah, it is my "utopian dream in my head" where pool is more then a thing that 1000 people on AZBilliards give two shits about. But, lets do the same thing for the next 20 years, it is not like any of us here are mortal and have anything but time on our hands to see the state of this sport improve from it's current completely crappy reality.

If things cannot be done as I say they SHOULD be done then that IS the problem and it is time to fix it.

Mark said it himself




AND it makes a difference what tables are used for the spectators as well. If this sport wants to "continue to" grow then it better start to present itself to the players and the spectators on the equipment they want to use.

This ain't my fight, but you have me shaking my head, so why not jump in...

Please clarify your stance a little for me. Are you suggesting that CSI should not sanction any league that doesn't play on Diamonds? Meaning that if a given group of people want to play BCApl, it would have to be on a Diamond table?

What kind of business are you suggesting Mark run, a small one?

There is one pool room in the entire state of Maine (to my knowledge) that has Diamond tables. One. So you suggest that no one here could play in his league system as a result, or only in that one room?

(In full disclosure, I'm not sure that we have any BCApl in Maine currently, certainly not near me. I'm simply using our part of the world for the example.)

To suggest that every part of this country change to Diamonds in order to have a league system allowed to play there is ludicrous.

Would it be great to be able to play on the same equipment all the time, sure. I have news for you. Pool leagues aren't the end for these rooms, they are the means...these room owners are in business to get people playing pool. Making them go to the HUGE expense of changing tables boggles the mind.
 
And because I'm a geek by trade, I wrote a little app to parse out that page and count up the players, and also look up their stats so I know how many are in each bracket. heh

As of a few minutes ago, there are
463 in 8-ball
240 in 9-ball
113 in 10-ball

Cool. I'm a geek but a lazy one. :)

How many Class B's for 9 and 10?
 
Nice to see that they've now changed from no coin-drop, open tables 24x7 to coin-drop after 10pm. At least they changed their website accordingly, albeit after most people have already registered and paid their (now non-refundable) greens fees!
 
I'll be there just for 8-ball. I believe I was a 96 or 98 when I registered so I get the joy of playing in the master class
 
Relax relax relax with all gotta have a Diamond song by everyone they will be there more retail sales for Diamond
 
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