Why do you say that?
We're just talkin' here and many good ideas are being cast about. Where's the harm? Last I heard The Inquisition was out of business.
Lou Figueroa
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The future of pool
- Thread starter buckshotshoey
- Start date
Why do you say that?
We're just talkin' here and many good ideas are being cast about. Where's the harm? Last I heard The Inquisition was out of business.
Lou Figueroa
Design
Yeah,
With the computer animation we have today I think designing something like what you're talking about would be really interesting. I would think something like that would work well if it were done by a group of investors as a project. If one were successful then you do another. I like the idea of a separate place to have matches. Ive always thought if there were a place set up just for the watching of pool it could even be a sort of amphitheatre. I could function as a pool room, match room, film room and could stream events. The whole event center/pool room has some appeal. Ive seen one room that had the space but it closed before I could get free enough to plan some events..oh well. I would like to see the occasional trade show in a place like that where a wholesaler, cue makers and other vendors could come set up.
Ive tried to make sense out of the trade show business but when you start figuring in the rent, the rent on equipment its gets really difficult to make any money because we just don't pull the numbers needed. If the room were already there and were functioning as a business that would be a huge help and it would bring in a lot of events.
Yeah,
With the computer animation we have today I think designing something like what you're talking about would be really interesting. I would think something like that would work well if it were done by a group of investors as a project. If one were successful then you do another. I like the idea of a separate place to have matches. Ive always thought if there were a place set up just for the watching of pool it could even be a sort of amphitheatre. I could function as a pool room, match room, film room and could stream events. The whole event center/pool room has some appeal. Ive seen one room that had the space but it closed before I could get free enough to plan some events..oh well. I would like to see the occasional trade show in a place like that where a wholesaler, cue makers and other vendors could come set up.
Ive tried to make sense out of the trade show business but when you start figuring in the rent, the rent on equipment its gets really difficult to make any money because we just don't pull the numbers needed. If the room were already there and were functioning as a business that would be a huge help and it would bring in a lot of events.
Doing Something
Paul,
I am doing something. For one I work a job that I retire in 4 months but in that meantime Ive spent a lot hours working on pool tournament formats trying to find something that will be popular and accomplish what room owners want, players wants that is easy enough to understand and run and might actually catch on.
I have spent a lot of time trying to find out the right recipe to run pool events and have spent countless hours looking at venues, seating and other things all that lines and when the last numbers are crunched I haven't seen anything that looks like a winner yet.
I am doing something. I am trying to find something that will make a room owner get business and make people want to play and it would be nice if there were a nickel in it for me if I do but I would be happy if I just got to play and enjoy my time.
The conversation here can be really good and you can learn things from people here if on occasion someone brings a really good point to something that you find out you have all twisted up or something you hadn't quite figured all out.
Im doing a whole lot more than what Im letting on and in several months you will hear about it Im sure but one thing I have learned is that Az is not the place to market for sales. If one is truly interested in growing the sport then the marketing to the general public and picking up players is the thing to do. Sure pool players buy products that is no lie and that's a great help but Az is a small place when compared to Amazon.
Az is like the pool room and Amazon is like the world outside it.
Paul,
I am doing something. For one I work a job that I retire in 4 months but in that meantime Ive spent a lot hours working on pool tournament formats trying to find something that will be popular and accomplish what room owners want, players wants that is easy enough to understand and run and might actually catch on.
I have spent a lot of time trying to find out the right recipe to run pool events and have spent countless hours looking at venues, seating and other things all that lines and when the last numbers are crunched I haven't seen anything that looks like a winner yet.
I am doing something. I am trying to find something that will make a room owner get business and make people want to play and it would be nice if there were a nickel in it for me if I do but I would be happy if I just got to play and enjoy my time.
The conversation here can be really good and you can learn things from people here if on occasion someone brings a really good point to something that you find out you have all twisted up or something you hadn't quite figured all out.
Im doing a whole lot more than what Im letting on and in several months you will hear about it Im sure but one thing I have learned is that Az is not the place to market for sales. If one is truly interested in growing the sport then the marketing to the general public and picking up players is the thing to do. Sure pool players buy products that is no lie and that's a great help but Az is a small place when compared to Amazon.
Az is like the pool room and Amazon is like the world outside it.
Robin, It's fun to think and talk about these things. The real fun happens when the rubber hits the road, when you implement an idea and you get to see it rise or fall. Go for it!
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We certainly agree on building characters. It would be nice to see a road to SVB/KO PIN-YI similar to this http://youtu.be/DT1I-Zh79BQ . Would it bring more buys to the PPV? Could it even bring in new fans? COULD this one promotional video even effect the sales and size of future events? I think so but it must be done right and spread to a potential target audiences. As it is there are just previous matches posted and they are no t spread very far on the web then when sales lack or there is no attendance the word gets spread that pro pool just does not draw. This blaming the lack of sales on pro pool, along with the criticism of pro players not being professional is what bugs me most.
Then after the event the promotion doesn't end. I think a promoter needs to let the people know what they missed if they didn't buy. http://youtu.be/uVIxvOTDS24
And connect the next event to the one you just had too, give the fans something to follow not just individual events. Create a following. I would like to see more professional promoting in pool. As it is now the promoters blame the lack of fans on the fact that pool just doesn't draw and that is just wrong imo. I also hate it when the promoters blame the players attitudes even saying they are not professionals. Please! Rodney for example is an angel compared to real problem athletes and most of the guys from pool are really good guys. It is not them or the sport, it is the promoting.
And liven the sport up too if we want lots of fans! Mosconi Cup is the best event for a reason.
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I agree
I agree Paul. I've been thinking about things I want to do for years now. I retire a job in a little over 4 months and then I will have some time to devote to it. For once I will get to do what I want to. I'm always taking backers, hop on!!
I agree Paul. I've been thinking about things I want to do for years now. I retire a job in a little over 4 months and then I will have some time to devote to it. For once I will get to do what I want to. I'm always taking backers, hop on!!
sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta,....
Do!
Well, In more than a few years I will be retiring. The LAST thing I want to see at a poolroom I visit is this 70yr old guy that I play sucking on his oxygen mask as he tells me how he always made the shot he just missed 10yrs ago in our match.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to schlepp around the table with some other older experienced players, But I need to play that kid in his 30's that is plugged-in to his I-phone too.
You know the one I'm talking about right ?!? He wears a soccer warm-up suit,has whatever the latest footwear fad is,shoots pretty good,and is soooooo full of himself, that you are aching to beat him! :smilewinkgrin:
He won't be there unless we(players today) introduce him to the higher level of this game we love. I will encourage that anyway I can. Makes the roomowner happy, makes me happy, (to have a future jr. player) too. It's all good! :thumbup:
Do!
Well, In more than a few years I will be retiring. The LAST thing I want to see at a poolroom I visit is this 70yr old guy that I play sucking on his oxygen mask as he tells me how he always made the shot he just missed 10yrs ago in our match.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to schlepp around the table with some other older experienced players, But I need to play that kid in his 30's that is plugged-in to his I-phone too.
You know the one I'm talking about right ?!? He wears a soccer warm-up suit,has whatever the latest footwear fad is,shoots pretty good,and is soooooo full of himself, that you are aching to beat him! :smilewinkgrin:
He won't be there unless we(players today) introduce him to the higher level of this game we love. I will encourage that anyway I can. Makes the roomowner happy, makes me happy, (to have a future jr. player) too. It's all good! :thumbup:
Times change though. Back when I was a kid in the 60's I hung around a few different pool rooms. I swear, every kid in the place wanted to be a road player and a lot of them did it. I quit school to travel and play pool.
It was actually pretty easy, pool was really taking off and there were a lot of new players ever where you went who didn't play very well and would gamble. Quite honestly, you didn't have to be a world beater to make a nice little living. Wages were like $2.00 an hour before taxes then and I could make many times that playing pool, it was I guess you could say, a good playing job and fun.
Here is the point though, every pool room in the country back then a zillion young players who were really serious about the game. The 60's and 70's produced a generation of players from every part of the country. This can no way happen again, it was just a unique time for pool and young players. I now go in a few pool rooms on and off and I don't know even one young player who cares about the game beyond just something to do. Maybe that is a good thing, who knows.
What is it going to take for the youth in the US to catch "the pool bug" like elsewhere?
We have youth going to Mosconi this yr, and I like their chances. They are underdogs with nothing to lose and a lot to prove ! This would be a terrible loss to pool in the US if the youth did not see these young guns win overseas!
People lead the Games, the Games do not lead the people
Speaking in terms of the "Game" having enough draw to create a loyal viewing audience is never going to happen. The reason I can say the with such certainly is it doesn't happen in any other sport or game. Football, Basketball, Wrestling, Hockey, Boxing and Golf have all had their periods of poor ratings. The common denominator that always saved them was PEOPLE (Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Larry B., Mike T., Jimmy C. John M., IMG Group, Don King, Barry Bonds, etc.).
Without changing or tinkering with the Game its self. Pool in the early to mid 90s was getting 1 ratings (one million households) up against just about any other sport, even the super bowl pool did well. (I played a match in front of 2.8 Million Viewers).
This was the time that professional marketing agencies, professional acting coaches, and professional TV producers should have been brought into the picture. However, IT DID NOT HAPPEN and the ones "in control" thought they could do it themselves without the help of professional sources of talent. This failed then and it's failing now. It's NEVER been the Game's fault it's not received positive publicity and been popular (since The Color of Money).
I'll debate that with ANYBODY in a public forum. I know the inside story of what happened in those "key years" and it's not complicated what has to happen to turn this situation around. And like the saying goes "keep dong the same thing and you'll keep getting the same results". This is especially true and it's also a sign of the insanity of the methodology.
FIRST there must be an emotional attachment generated for the Players before the game will catch on. People lead the Games, the Games do not lead the people. It's been true for other sports/games and it's true for Pocket Billiards.
I have been on the inside of Nascar, PGA, and NBA through agents, players, coaches and marketing experts and they all say the same thing. "Develop an emotional attachment between the players and the public and their fans enthusiastically watch them play".
That's the "filet mignon" of my previous metaphor and the hamburger is what we've done instead (the past 20 years). The good news is we have the ability to change, if we face reality and stop trying to make the cart draw the horse. The Professional Players MUST be put in a position to draw the Game into the public eye. There is no other way. imho
Speaking in terms of the "Game" having enough draw to create a loyal viewing audience is never going to happen. The reason I can say the with such certainly is it doesn't happen in any other sport or game. Football, Basketball, Wrestling, Hockey, Boxing and Golf have all had their periods of poor ratings. The common denominator that always saved them was PEOPLE (Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Larry B., Mike T., Jimmy C. John M., IMG Group, Don King, Barry Bonds, etc.).
Without changing or tinkering with the Game its self. Pool in the early to mid 90s was getting 1 ratings (one million households) up against just about any other sport, even the super bowl pool did well. (I played a match in front of 2.8 Million Viewers).
This was the time that professional marketing agencies, professional acting coaches, and professional TV producers should have been brought into the picture. However, IT DID NOT HAPPEN and the ones "in control" thought they could do it themselves without the help of professional sources of talent. This failed then and it's failing now. It's NEVER been the Game's fault it's not received positive publicity and been popular (since The Color of Money).
I'll debate that with ANYBODY in a public forum. I know the inside story of what happened in those "key years" and it's not complicated what has to happen to turn this situation around. And like the saying goes "keep dong the same thing and you'll keep getting the same results". This is especially true and it's also a sign of the insanity of the methodology.
FIRST there must be an emotional attachment generated for the Players before the game will catch on. People lead the Games, the Games do not lead the people. It's been true for other sports/games and it's true for Pocket Billiards.
I have been on the inside of Nascar, PGA, and NBA through agents, players, coaches and marketing experts and they all say the same thing. "Develop an emotional attachment between the players and the public and their fans enthusiastically watch them play".
That's the "filet mignon" of my previous metaphor and the hamburger is what we've done instead (the past 20 years). The good news is we have the ability to change, if we face reality and stop trying to make the cart draw the horse. The Professional Players MUST be put in a position to draw the Game into the public eye. There is no other way. imho
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=365824&highlight=I'll+debate+public+forum.&page=10
post 141
HEY!! I just "real eyes" CJ is just a bot - canned replies just like on those "other" sites.
I feel like I should clear my browser history now...
The Game is the Backdrop
Banks
Banned
You're just now realizing that? He won't debate anything unless they're already somewhat in agreement with him, otherwise he just ignores people. I quit taking him seriously after reposting old stuff as current and just plain making things up. Remember, use a touch of skepticism.
The self-promotion is the teacher.
Pools Problems
CJ,
You make some points and some of them might well be spot on for certain situations but.
There isn't but so many Advocates, Angels and Ambassadors of Pool.
No organized body and the only rule is:
If it makes financial sense then it will survive.
The only association that I see we have is the Pool Room Owner and he has to survive, in order to do that he has to have customers and he has no association to bring the public awareness up. So its on him if he cares to do it.
That makes for a really tough business that has to be dealt with month to month and now. So when you offer the high brow solutions that involve high priced professionals well without a pocket from which to pay for it....who is going to pay for that?
I think our chances of getting someone to foot the bill aren't as good as the chances of getting the room owners to market the business in which they make their living. Maybe that will stop some of blood flow from the sport at the local level and who knows maybe that will be a turning point albeit a slow one.
CJ,
You make some points and some of them might well be spot on for certain situations but.
There isn't but so many Advocates, Angels and Ambassadors of Pool.
No organized body and the only rule is:
If it makes financial sense then it will survive.
The only association that I see we have is the Pool Room Owner and he has to survive, in order to do that he has to have customers and he has no association to bring the public awareness up. So its on him if he cares to do it.
That makes for a really tough business that has to be dealt with month to month and now. So when you offer the high brow solutions that involve high priced professionals well without a pocket from which to pay for it....who is going to pay for that?
I think our chances of getting someone to foot the bill aren't as good as the chances of getting the room owners to market the business in which they make their living. Maybe that will stop some of blood flow from the sport at the local level and who knows maybe that will be a turning point albeit a slow one.
It doesn't matter what happen on TV 20-30 years ago. The media landscape has changed, dramatically. And it does't matter who you knew in other sports endeavors in the past -- that kind of stuff has an extremely short shelf life in professional circles. Basically, unless you are in the mix *today,* or in the very, very recent past, you, your contacts, and understanding of the media landscape is last months milk -- lumpy and stinky.
Lou Figueroa
Okay so I was at a party last week. The house had a table and to my surprise the owner (my cousin) just let the kids have at it. So later, that night my 2yr. old cousin is just rolling balls around.
I helped him a little bit. He could hardly reach. lol
BUT I did teach him what the cue ball is and a "certain phrase" haha.
His Dad's face was priceless when his kid looked up and said............
"I can move the rock!" --Just trying to help!!
I helped him a little bit. He could hardly reach. lol
BUT I did teach him what the cue ball is and a "certain phrase" haha.
His Dad's face was priceless when his kid looked up and said............
"I can move the rock!" --Just trying to help!!
The future isn't television at least as a major piece. The future is yhe internet and social media of all types. If you're focusing on tv, dvds, movies,or even Facebook you'd be behind the curve already. Successful sports promotion of today covers almost every possible social media source. Exclusive content via apps, twitter, instagram.
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Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
adorable, like a turkey prancing around on a buzzard rock
You have such a delicious way with words.
Actually I signed two TV agreements last week.....and I know, if it was past Monday, June 16, 2014 it's probably "old news". :groucho:
"You're adorable, like a turkey prancing around on a buzzard rock". :angel:
You have such a delicious way with words.
Actually I signed two TV agreements last week.....and I know, if it was past Monday, June 16, 2014 it's probably "old news". :groucho:
"You're adorable, like a turkey prancing around on a buzzard rock". :angel:
Working with professionals falls under the category of "common sense solutions,"
"High brow solutions" - are you serous?
Hiring Marketing, Advertising, and PR Companies is not considered "high brow solutions" in any way, shape or form.
Working with professionals falls under the category of "common sense solutions," just like hiring CPAs and Attorneys are advisable to do your taxes and handle legal issues.
"High brow solutions" - are you serous?
Hiring Marketing, Advertising, and PR Companies is not considered "high brow solutions" in any way, shape or form.
Working with professionals falls under the category of "common sense solutions," just like hiring CPAs and Attorneys are advisable to do your taxes and handle legal issues.
Hiring=$
Sure it is. It's highbrow and out of the mind of a business owner when they can't pay the rent and have no idea how they are going to attract business to pay the rent.
What might seem obvious to you, might not be to someone else.
When you start talking about hiring professionals at that level the first thing that crosses my mind is.....What is this going to cost? and.....were I a room owner....what can I do myself and at what cost? Sadly I think most end up doing nothing because of various reasons.
There is a reality factor here and what we hope might happen, what we see as the obvious solution might not be conceivable to the mind of the business owner not to mention the financial obligations of plan.
I would say that since we've lost half of the wholesalers and probably as many pool rooms that if a tenth of those lost knew the obvious answers that they might be in business today.
So the obvious success of your plan to use professionals to fix the problems in pool aren't so obvious to anyone but likely you and if people can't see the wisdom into hiring those people to bring them customers then all of it is lost to the wind.
Truthfully you and I can postulate all day long about this and that and not one extra customer is made out of it.
Its going to require the room owner doing something to bear that fruit. So coming up with a plan be it going your way with a fairly concrete cost to it or going my way that advocates personal marketing strategies directly to a customer base and offering a way for them to have fun both don't mean a thing unless someone is willing to put forth and effort and from what I see in room owners, most don't care to do either.
The basic difference in your and my approach involves money. Mine costs you time. Yours costs you money. If you already got money involved time seems a little cheaper.
I would love to see some figures for what you are talking about, then see you sell it to a room owner and then post up about how that business turned around. I really would like you to prove me wrong. The way you talk its evident that you would fall into the category of a proactive room owner with his mind on his business, who maximizes his time by hiring specialists and that's a great approach. I just don't see the majority of room owners going for such a package unless the cost is extremely low and it something that can be kept up, because marketing should be an on going cost.
Herding people in Pool is like Herding Cats. The best I think one can do is to put something out there and just hope it takes hold. Otherwise you just have way too much personal investment in it. I think that the rule is to accept the likely outcomes of what is most likely to happen and let Reality be the Teacher. If I am correct you no longer have a pool room. I don't know what you do other than sell your pool stuff, maybe you should build a consulting service set up around reigniting pool interest? Just a thought you seem to know a lot about it, perhaps you can get people to follow your lead.
Sure it is. It's highbrow and out of the mind of a business owner when they can't pay the rent and have no idea how they are going to attract business to pay the rent.
What might seem obvious to you, might not be to someone else.
When you start talking about hiring professionals at that level the first thing that crosses my mind is.....What is this going to cost? and.....were I a room owner....what can I do myself and at what cost? Sadly I think most end up doing nothing because of various reasons.
There is a reality factor here and what we hope might happen, what we see as the obvious solution might not be conceivable to the mind of the business owner not to mention the financial obligations of plan.
I would say that since we've lost half of the wholesalers and probably as many pool rooms that if a tenth of those lost knew the obvious answers that they might be in business today.
So the obvious success of your plan to use professionals to fix the problems in pool aren't so obvious to anyone but likely you and if people can't see the wisdom into hiring those people to bring them customers then all of it is lost to the wind.
Truthfully you and I can postulate all day long about this and that and not one extra customer is made out of it.
Its going to require the room owner doing something to bear that fruit. So coming up with a plan be it going your way with a fairly concrete cost to it or going my way that advocates personal marketing strategies directly to a customer base and offering a way for them to have fun both don't mean a thing unless someone is willing to put forth and effort and from what I see in room owners, most don't care to do either.
The basic difference in your and my approach involves money. Mine costs you time. Yours costs you money. If you already got money involved time seems a little cheaper.
I would love to see some figures for what you are talking about, then see you sell it to a room owner and then post up about how that business turned around. I really would like you to prove me wrong. The way you talk its evident that you would fall into the category of a proactive room owner with his mind on his business, who maximizes his time by hiring specialists and that's a great approach. I just don't see the majority of room owners going for such a package unless the cost is extremely low and it something that can be kept up, because marketing should be an on going cost.
Herding people in Pool is like Herding Cats. The best I think one can do is to put something out there and just hope it takes hold. Otherwise you just have way too much personal investment in it. I think that the rule is to accept the likely outcomes of what is most likely to happen and let Reality be the Teacher. If I am correct you no longer have a pool room. I don't know what you do other than sell your pool stuff, maybe you should build a consulting service set up around reigniting pool interest? Just a thought you seem to know a lot about it, perhaps you can get people to follow your lead.