APA Sharking Question

[KMRUNOUT]

You were nasty. Read what you said:

It is surprising and depressing to hear people say what you have just said. You are certainly not alone. Your screen name makes your reply less surprising. If everyone on earth agreed with you, you would still be wrong.

Hmm...I reread it. First I state *my* feelings. Then I comment (as did others) that defending behavior some consider sharking with a name like TheNewSharkster is a bit funny, and closed with a statement of fact as I see it.

Nothing nasty there. Reread it lol.

In any case, it proves the point I was making in my last post perfectly. If I said nothing at all, there would be no room for misinterpretation.

Conclusion: you can't go wrong by sitting quietly and still in your seat while your opponent is shooting.

KMRUNOUT

 

[RiverCity]

Is it any wonder why pool halls are dying off? People don't go there to have fun, because there really isn't any to be had in a place like that.

I call BS on this one. If someone prefers to get drunk and act like a jackass in a bar, then no, they probably wouldnt enjoy a quiet pool hall with serious players. But to say pool is failing because pool halls are not fun, or not as fun as a bar league with drunken players walking all around the table is nuts.
BTW Sunday at classics?
Chuck

 

[Atlatlien]

Poor etiquette is poor etiquette, even if someone whines about it.

My guess is that most everyone in this thread who has said that getting up was bad form would also say that whining about sharking after you miss is also bad form. But you're defending one bad behavior while criticizing another as being the cause of pool's current misfortune. Or do I have that wrong?

Totally agree there. Whining about sharking is also bad form, unless it was sharking that continued even after being asked to stop, which would make it blatantly intentional.

 

[Sbrogdon]

All of this talk about sharking is ridiculous. I have been shooting for 30 years. In my opinion, to complain that someone is sharking is simply making excuses for your own lack of a very imperative skill in any sport, focus. I focus on the shot and the table, not anything outside of that area.

Sorry, if you complain of someone sharking, work on the mental side of your game, because it is severely lacking,

 

[TheNewSharkster]

Hmm...I reread it. First I state *my* feelings. Then I comment (as did others) that defending behavior some consider sharking with a name like TheNewSharkster is a bit funny, and closed with a statement of fact as I see it.

Nothing nasty there. Reread it lol.

In any case, it proves the point I was making in my last post perfectly. If I said nothing at all, there would be no room for misinterpretation.

Conclusion: you can't go wrong by sitting quietly and still in your seat while your opponent is shooting.

KMRUNOUT

I did reread it. You were rude. Just because we don't see eye to eye doesn't mean you are right. Do you play APA? I am guessing you don't. It is a social experience. Talking with people while your opponent is at the table is common place with regular league play. As a captain I try and talk to my players and coach them while they wait there turn (i.e. what are you doing to do if you get BIH?). Sometimes they need to walk over to me in order to converse. That is not sharking.

The nitty girl who missed doesn't want to admit she crapped the bed. It always easier to blame somebody else for your problem which is exactly what she did.

 

[Banks]

I call BS on this one. If someone prefers to get drunk and act like a jackass in a bar, then no, they probably wouldnt enjoy a quiet pool hall with serious players. But to say pool is failing because pool halls are not fun, or not as fun as a bar league with drunken players walking all around the table is nuts.
BTW Sunday at classics?
Chuck

I'm not so sure. You don't have to get drunk and act like a jackass, but it does loosen people up a bit. Maybe I haven't seen any decent pool halls around here, but Hot Shots and Classics are what I think of when "pool hall" comes to mind - nearly empty, average age of 40+ and easy to fall asleep in.

I think a great example would be Sam's Billiards. Go in on a Thursday and there are about 2 or 3 tables available, the other 11 or so taken for league. Nearly every one of them are either eating or drinking and the music is playing. The average age is probably early 30's. That's what people want - something more social and fun, imo. That's what businesses want - customers that come in, spend money and enjoy themselves. It's pretty rare that somebody gets out of line.

Granted, I learned in a bar where a drink was closer to a triple, at the least.

Sunday won't work for me. G/f is gone til Sunday, so I'd be real hard-pressed to justify going out during her 12 hours of not working. Tomorrow, I've got APA masters regionals. Tonight, I go out, get drunk and walk around tables!! Maybe Monday?

 

[u12armresl]

Agreed....

If you were "sure she would make it" then concede the shot to her.

don't reach into your pocket to get quarters for the next game, don't walk to the captain, don't break your stick down. Sit and wait until it's your turn and then shoot.

Your excuse is lame, you sharked her.

 

[u12armresl]

One of many reasons not to play leagues. If it was just play, shake hands and enjoy the sport it's different. Too many people with excuses.

There is a player in this state who is known to lash out at someone across the room moving. Any movement in the room is sharking to him. If you draw him, you have to tell the tournament director that you want him to be around. He keeps being allowed to play because he's a player and not a scrub.

I had a similar incident playing 9 Ball in league. I was way ahead and my opponent was finally on a down the rail shot on the 9 but shooting straight at where I sat. BEFORE he was down I got up and walked away from the table to be out of his site and almost behind him. I was sitting at the left corner pocket on the head rail. I walked about 45 degrees to my left away from the table, and where his team coach (a friend of mine) stood for the match. He stands Up and Says you concede the shot. I look and laughed and said I was trying to get out of your line of site on the shot. HE was MAD and got down and sunk the shot. He was on tilt the remainder of the match which he LOST. An on numerous shots he would be in my line of site and move or call people over to have movement. If it bothered me I would standup and reset sometimes 2 and 3 times and just smile, which just seemed to make him madder.

 

[u12armresl]

So now you've helped add your captain to the mix and have him show his poor sportsmanship.

Oh and I know that your Tardis was broken, so you couldn't wait until the end of the game to go over there. It was of National importance for you to walk over right then. Correct?

Let me just put it out there that my team captain waved me over to get something from him.

I thought that was clear when I said "to grab something from him."
Either way I don't really care- I won the match and overall set (3 to 1). I'm just asking because she kinda made a scene out of it.

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[u12armresl]

He knows better, that's why he added his legalez at the end and said for the record, so he could be absolved from what he knew was wrong.

Reminds me of all the "was this the right thing to do" threads. People know before they post it was wrong.

Man, we are being really hard on a guy that obviously didn't know better. Everyone on this board has made this same mistake at some point.


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[acesinc1999]

Not much happening in the Snooker section so an old snooker player will chime in here.

I believe that poor etiquette is an issue primarily due to ignorance. People display poor etiquette all the time but if you ask them if they know and understand proper etiquette, they will generally answer, why, yes, of course they do and they will say this in all honesty. I have tried subtle and not-so-subtle methods of trying to teach some of the guys where I play proper etiquette with very few positive results. People will do what they are going to do, and they will convince themselves their etiquette is proper and their opponent is just uptight or whatever.

The biggest problem with this attitude as I see it is that poor etiquette begets poor etiquette. Two examples:

First, I have been told by some that if I feel like I am being sharked, the problem is just me and I need to learn to stay focused on my game and not notice distractions. So, with some offenders, I will just say "Hell with it...." and will literally pay no attention at all when they are at the table...could have a swig of beer, could chalk my cue, could scratch my rear end. I can't say I am sharking them on purpose because, hey, I am not even looking. They might be down, they might be swinging, they might be talking on the phone, I don't know. I feel bad about it but this actually seems to have helped change some attitudes.

Second, a YouTube of sharking begetting sharking from no less than Stephen Hendry, arguably one of the greatest players to ever pick up a cue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DImATQ70-Eg

If you have patience, watch the whole thing. If not, start at 4:45. Hendry just gets fed up with her constantly in the line and chalking away. Then when he misses at 5:40 (undoubtedly on purpose whether consciously or subconsciously), he finally does the same to her. I submit that he probably doesn't even realize he does it; he is ignorant of his sharking at the time of offense, his brain has subliminally taken over. If he has ever seen this video, he is probably horrified at his actions because he ought to be above that despite her constant disrespect at the table.

 

[Zphix]

So now you've helped add your captain to the mix and have him show his poor sportsmanship.

Oh and I know that your Tardis was broken, so you couldn't wait until the end of the game to go over there. It was of National importance for you to walk over right then. Correct?

It was of national importance actually. I had to get his phone just in case president Obama called on his personal line to tell me he was coming to watch the APA leagues in our area.

and that - depending on how the league night went it'd determine how he'd handle the pending alien invasion that's to take place soon.

But, instead of Obama calling me - I got a text from SVB asking for advice on a particular shot.

So yes! The phone was that important.

Happy now?

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[Zphix]

I posted this for yes or nos - not lessons and speeches.

If I was wrong then so be it - at this point because of all the argument and hostility it's caused I simply don't care anymore.

If this isolated event is to be your judge of me then I guess I'll be the Satan of the pool world.

Thanks for making a mountain out of a molehill.

Also - to the various responders I apologize for any hostility I've showed... I just think this whole thing is stupid now. My response above is only to u12 who obviously didn't read through the responses because I'm pretty sure this was settled like 50 posts ago.

Good day everybody.

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[RiverCity]

I'm not so sure. You don't have to get drunk and act like a jackass, but it does loosen people up a bit. Maybe I haven't seen any decent pool halls around here, but Hot Shots and Classics are what I think of when "pool hall" comes to mind - nearly empty, average age of 40+ and easy to fall asleep in.

I think a great example would be Sam's Billiards. Go in on a Thursday and there are about 2 or 3 tables available, the other 11 or so taken for league. Nearly every one of them are either eating or drinking and the music is playing. The average age is probably early 30's. That's what people want - something more social and fun, imo. That's what businesses want - customers that come in, spend money and enjoy themselves. It's pretty rare that somebody gets out of line.

Granted, I learned in a bar where a drink was closer to a triple, at the least.

Sunday won't work for me. G/f is gone til Sunday, so I'd be real hard-pressed to justify going out during her 12 hours of not working. Tomorrow, I've got APA masters regionals. Tonight, I go out, get drunk and walk around tables!! Maybe Monday?

There are no good pool halls around here. Hot Shots is a family game room with pool tables in poor condition, and an owner who doesnt know anything or care about pool. Classics is a pool hall, but again, atrophy on the part of the owner as far as growing a business is sad. At least he keeps the tables in good condition.
Sams is not a pool hall. They attract the late 20s early 30s hipster kind of crowd who seem to think that Pabst is the coolest beer you can drink. Music thumping so loud that you can physically feel the bass track. That..... is a bar
So yes...... Youre primarily a bar player..... :grin:
Ill send you a pm about monday.
Chuck

 

[Celophanewrap]

I posted this for yes or nos - not lessons and speeches.

If I was wrong then so be it - at this point because of all the argument and hostility it's caused I simply don't care anymore.

If this isolated event is to be your judge of me then I guess I'll be the Satan of the pool world.

Thanks for making a mountain out of a molehill.

Also - to the various responders I apologize for any hostility I've showed... I just think this whole thing is stupid now. My response above is only to u12 who obviously didn't read through the responses because I'm pretty sure this was settled like 50 posts ago.

Good day everybody.

Sent from my X501_USA_Cricket using Tapatalk 2

Knew you couldn't stay away (big lug)

 

[lorider]

I posted this for yes or nos - not lessons and speeches.

If I was wrong then so be it - at this point because of all the argument and hostility it's caused I simply don't care anymore.

If this isolated event is to be your judge of me then I guess I'll be the Satan of the pool world.

Thanks for making a mountain out of a molehill.

Also - to the various responders I apologize for any hostility I've showed... I just think this whole thing is stupid now. My response above is only to u12 who obviously didn't read through the responses because I'm pretty sure this was settled like 50 posts ago.

Good day everybody.

Sent from my X501_USA_Cricket using Tapatalk 2

i really dont know what type of responses you expected of your post.

you have a very vocal group of members who hate leagues in general and the apa in particular. your post and posts like it just give them ammunition to bash away at the type of behavior that you experienced in your match.

to pool purists ....you both are at fault....and i some what agree with them.

on the other hand having played in bars most of my life......fading loud ass music....drunks staggering all over the place.....ass holes just being ass holes when you are playing them....oh yea last but not least ....the occasional g/f ...wife or what ever of your opponent...shaking her ass or boobs to distract you while you are down on your shot., well you get the picture. the incident you encountered dont bother me at all.

if the above really bothered all of you that posted , well....you would hate to play in my sunday night double jeapordy division. its like a mad house. 14 teams along with a bunch of regulars packed in our pool hall like a bunch of sardines in a can.

not enough seating area for all the teams to sit together so you have people sitting at other places or practicing on whatever table is available and you have to go hunt them up when its their match. people just milling around socializing from team to team. people going to get refills. waiting for the waitress to hand out peoples orders before you can shoot because there is no room to stand between the pool table and the table where your team mates are sitting.

yea she was a lil nitty. your incident is a pretty common occurance here and no one says any thing. yes we do display a lot of proper etiquette towards our opponent but the entire room is not going to come to a stand still when you are down on your shot. you just have to learn to block side distractions out.

 

[itsfroze]

i really dont know what type of responses you expected of your post.

you have a very vocal group of members who hate leagues in general and the apa in particular. your post and posts like it just give them ammunition to bash away at the type of behavior that you experienced in your match.

to pool purists ....you both are at fault....and i some what agree with them.

on the other hand having played in bars most of my life......fading loud ass music....drunks staggering all over the place.....ass holes just being ass holes when you are playing them....oh yea last but not least ....the occasional g/f ...wife or what ever of your opponent...shaking her ass or boobs to distract you while you are down on your shot., well you get the picture. the incident you encountered dont bother me at all.

if the above really bothered all of you that posted , well....you would hate to play in my sunday night double jeapordy division. its like a mad house. 14 teams along with a bunch of regulars packed in our pool hall like a bunch of sardines in a can.

not enough seating area for all the teams to sit together so you have people sitting at other places or practicing on whatever table is available and you have to go hunt them up when its their match. people just milling around socializing from team to team. people going to get refills. waiting for the waitress to hand out peoples orders before you can shoot because there is no room to stand between the pool table and the table where your team mates are sitting.

yea she was a lil nitty. your incident is a pretty common occurance here and no one says any thing. yes we do display a lot of proper etiquette towards our opponent but the entire room is not going to come to a stand still when you are down on your shot. you just have to learn to block side distractions out.

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"type of behavior that you experienced"..."the incident you encountered"... this wording makes it sound as if he was shooting and she got up from her chair during his turn,
very strange way to word this, LOL.

I don't think anyone was saying the whole room should stop (I must have missed it, LOL) They are only saying when it's your opponents turn you should stay in your chair or where ever you are standing during their turn at the table, but you knew that.
It's called common courtesy. If more league members practiced this not only with other league members but the other folks who come to the Pool room. I think it would create more good will for the APA leagues.

I mean how often can one use the well worn excuse of "well they just don't know". If too many people act like etiquette and common courtesy are outdated or unimportant
then it will be. Also whether the shooter should be focused and not notice what is happening around the table is irrelevant to what the opponent should or shouldn't be doing when it's not their turn at the table.

 

[lorider]

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"type of behavior that you experienced"..."the incident you encountered"... this wording makes it sound as if he was shooting and she got up from her chair during his turn,
very strange way to word this, LOL.

I don't think anyone was saying the whole room should stop (I must have missed it, LOL) They are only saying when it's your opponents turn you should stay in your chair or where ever you are standing during their turn at the table, but you knew that.
It's called common courtesy. If more league members practiced this not only with other league members but the other folks who come to the Pool room. I think it would create more good will for the APA leagues.

I mean how often can one use the well worn excuse of "well they just don't know". If too many people act like etiquette and common courtesy are outdated or unimportant
then it will be. Also whether the shooter should be focused and not notice what is happening around the table is irrelevant to what the opponent should or shouldn't be doing when it's not their turn at the table.

i am refering to the whole dang scenario. he moved ...according to his version he was not in her line of sight. she said she was sharked. it could have been any one moving...such as i described in my environment on sunday nights...the rest of my leagues are not so packed.

in my 3 years of playing leagues i have encountered his incident twice. not too bad of a record since i have over 1,000 matches in apa ...napa ...bcapl...and money leagues combined. 600 of them being apa.

1. napa league. for what ever reason my lo did not have copies of the race matrix for every team that week so we were passing copies back and forth. mind you we are running 2 matches at a time. the ther captain called for me to hand him my copy...as i stood up to lean over and pass it to the other table his player was shhoting at the money ball and rattled the pocket..she ...yea a she like in his incident blamed me for her missing lol. remember i am standing at my table ...not walking around. she complained so loudly to the lo he awarded her the rack. even her captain agreed with me that i did not shark her. i was not in her line of sight..she just saw me out of the corner of her eye she claimed.

2. apa ltc last year. gain sitting at my table. i reached over to grab my drink the waitress brought. a guy shooting against my team mate complained to the lo i sharked him when he missed. he should have been looking at his shot instead of me.

as others have said... people look for excuses when they miss a shot. its every one elses fault they miss..not theirs lol.

 

[itsfroze]

i am refering to the whole dang scenario. he moved ...according to his version he was not in her line of sight. she said she was sharked. it could have been any one moving...such as i described in my environment on sunday nights...the rest of my leagues are not so packed.

in my 3 years of playing leagues i have encountered his incident twice. not too bad of a record since i have over 1,000 matches in apa ...napa ...bcapl...and money leagues combined. 600 of them being apa.

1. napa league. for what ever reason my lo did not have copies of the race matrix for every team that week so we were passing copies back and forth. mind you we are running 2 matches at a time. the ther captain called for me to hand him my copy...as i stood up to lean over and pass it to the other table his player was shhoting at the money ball and rattled the pocket..she ...yea a she like in his incident blamed me for her missing lol. remember i am standing at my table ...not walking around. she complained so loudly to the lo he awarded her the rack. even her captain agreed with me that i did not shark her. i was not in her line of sight..she just saw me out of the corner of her eye she claimed.

2. apa ltc last year. gain sitting at my table. i reached over to grab my drink the waitress brought. a guy shooting against my team mate complained to the lo i sharked him when he missed. he should have been looking at his shot instead of me.

as others have said... people look for excuses when they miss a shot. its every one elses fault they miss..not theirs lol.

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I just try to make sure whether sitting in a chair or standing that I'm still when my opponent is shooting,
in other words they will have to look else where when looking for an excuse not toward me, if they miss.

One can only be responsible for their own actions and it doesn't matter if twelve people are walking around,
I shouldn't be one of them when it's my opponents turn, as others have said.

Yes some people look for excuses, but also people who demonstrate a lack of common courtesy like to try
and lay blame on their opponent when they are called on it.
A person who likes to shark will always play the victim and try to deflect the blame onto their opponent.

P.S. As far as the OP'er goes he already said he is usually in his chair and anything I'm
writing at this point I'm only using this event as an example/talking point.
Nothing is directed toward him, to make that clear.

 

[lorider]

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I just try to make sure whether sitting in a chair or standing that I'm still when my opponent is shooting,
in other words they will have to look else where when looking for an excuse not toward me, if they miss.

One can only be responsible for their own actions and it doesn't matter if twelve people are walking around,
I shouldn't be one of them when it's my opponents turn, as others have said.

Yes some people look for excuses, but also people who demonstrate a lack of common courtesy like to try
and lay blame on their opponent when they are called on it.
A person who likes to shark will always play the victim and try to deflect the blame onto their opponent.

P.S. As far as the OP'er goes he already said he is usually in his chair and anything I'm
writing at this point I'm only using this event as an example/talking point.
Nothing is directed toward him, to make that clear.

good analogy....i agree with you completely.:wink: