Napa national payout issue

For my money, it is real simple.

IF you want to participate here, you'll change the demeanor that you're using.

I have nothing against your information. I DO have a huge problem with the way you're speaking to people though.

Any questions?




akerr1982 said:
NAPA members don't pay a yearly sanction fee. Is that what you're referencing?

.50 cents.. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. LET'S CRUNCH THAT NUMBER.. That's 50 matches, at $25/yr.... 50 matches........ 50 matches...... 50 matches...... Do you play 50 matches in a year for any league through 3 sessions? Do you? Do you?

Oh wait... BCA? $15.00 a year... If your operator remembers that you paid it, and forces you to pay it again. So most BCAPL members pay $30 sanctions from incompetence and failed technology as well. Oh, wait.. Plus $11 for VNEA, when leagues try to ride on each others coat-tails cause they can't make it on their own, by themselves, cause their freaking scared! So thats $45.00 a year.. And .50 cents a player per week @ $45.00 is what? 90 matches? 90 Matches? Do you play 90 matches a year for any amateur organization? NO YOU DON'T

STFU... And stop trolling.
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akerr1982 said:
.50 cents a player per week you mean? Does it state that in any shape or form added to the prize fund at Nationals? Nope. I'm going to assume from basic common sense the .50 cents per player weekly revenue goes to operate the league nationally. Also the rental of tables for both national events are purchased along with this revenue to compensate for staff and operations during both national events.

Keep reaching for the ZERO... You will find it soon, and you will then look like a complete moron.
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No not per week. It's $.50 per player from every match played in the entire year sir. You know this. Most players in this area play 3 or 4 times a week. Others play less than one. It doesn't matter who plays or how often they play. Napa nationals gets $.50 per player/per match, for every league match played. You team plays any other team 4 players per team play, NAPA National gets $4.

The point is the $40.00 is for the tables and should not affect the payout.
 
GoBilliards said:
No not per week. It's $.50 per player from every match played in the entire year sir. You know this. Most players in this area play 3 or 4 times a week. Others play less than one. It doesn't matter who plays or how often they play. Napa nationals gets $.50 per player/per match, for every league match played. You team plays any other team 4 players per team play, NAPA National gets $4.

The point is the $40.00 is for the tables and should not affect the payout.
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Can you tell me where you got this information? Back when I almost became a LO the national office kept a percentage of whatever the LO chose to charge the players per week per match. It was not a set 50 cents.
 
zpele said:
Can you tell me where you got this information? Back when I almost became a LO the national office kept a percentage of whatever the LO chose to charge the players per week per match. It was not a set 50 cents.
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From the local LO and from Jerome Jones at 2012 nationals in Nashville.

Again, the point is, the $40 fee is for the tables. They didn't have a fee at the 2012 nationals, there was a coin drop. $1.00 per game. The $40 green fee was added after the 2012 Nationals to replace the coin drop. The $40.00 has nothing to do with the payout.
 
I spoke to Tony about purchasing ownership of an area this year at the event. He was amazingly vague, which I found odd. I had requested a sit down with him to discuss it, expecting it to take about 10 minutes of his time. I was legitimately interested in the opportunity, yet all he would say was to call Robin and let her know, pay my $250 and sign on the dotted line. This was during a time when he wasn't busy, very early in the day and he was simply sitting and watching folks wander around, waiting for matches to start. I took it as they don't care to discuss details until after you've paid your $250. I didn't know how else to take it. In a way, I understand, yet for the sake of transparency and success in the league, I wouldn't think it's all that big of a secret to discuss percentages of where the $10 a week players pay (in our current leagues) goes and what my possible benefit to becoming a LO would be per player/team. Sorry, I can't weigh in on what amounts go where, beyond $2 of our weekly fee goes to the establishment for table time which is, imo, more than fair for all of the table time we get weekly.
 
Nullus said:
I spoke to Tony about purchasing ownership of an area this year at the event. He was amazingly vague, which I found odd. I had requested a sit down with him to discuss it, expecting it to take about 10 minutes of his time. I was legitimately interested in the opportunity, yet all he would say was to call Robin and let her know, pay my $250 and sign on the dotted line. This was during a time when he wasn't busy, very early in the day and he was simply sitting and watching folks wander around, waiting for matches to start. I took it as they don't care to discuss details until after you've paid your $250. I didn't know how else to take it. In a way, I understand, yet for the sake of transparency and success in the league, I wouldn't think it's all that big of a secret to discuss percentages of where the $10 a week players pay (in our current leagues) goes and what my possible benefit to becoming a LO would be per player/team. Sorry, I can't weigh in on what amounts go where, beyond $2 of our weekly fee goes to the establishment for table time which is, imo, more than fair for all of the table time we get weekly.
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So it seems to me that not all of us can be right. I could very well be wrong on my percentages and the rules could have changed since I was interested.

Regardless of all that I still like the format of the league but just want some sort of communication from an actual NAPA league spokesman. If anyone is still at nationals or knows Tony or his wife can you please let them know about this so it doesn't cause more harm and we can hear their side of the story?
 
GoBilliards said:
This is crazy. Stop with the misinformation. The $40 was for the tables. The payout was intended to come from the $.50 per match per player. They didn't even have a $40.00 fee until last year when they stopped plugging the tables.
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HUH? You don't even know what you're talking about? 2011 No Coin, 2012 Nashville (We had to do coin cause of the JOB owner), 2013 No Coin, 2014 No Coin.

There has never been any solicitation that operator territory fee's which is 50 cents per player per week, would never be added to any national event. It is used to operate the league, and at best, a very small amount to operate as such, with being the 3rd largest organized league in North America.

NAPA members pay the least out of pocket to play in a organized league structure.
 
akerr1982 said:
NAPA members pay the least out of pocket to play in a organized league structure.
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And get the least, by a very large margin, back out of it.

Greens fees are not prize fund fees. It really is that simple. If they can't afford to fund the nationals out of what they make throughout the year, it's pretty easy to just say that and charge an entry fee for the tournament, and use a greens fee to pay for the tables. I'm not sure why that's difficult to understand. But I do know why they do it: To deceive players. They're getting really good at that. And it's sad, because their handicap and scoring and a lot of other things they do are very good.
 
There are a lot of good ideas at the heart of NAPA. No doubt. A little common sense would go a long way though. I wouldn't care if you charged me an entry fee. Hell charge me $100.00 per event. I'm fine with that. Don't expect me to spend $1000.00 in travel expenses so I can try to win a tourney that pays $360 for 1st. It's comically ridiculous. There is also no reason for all of this deception.
 
In the Masters/grand masters division, 1st place payouts were as follows. 8Ball, $1000.00 9Ball $360 and 10 ball $350.00. Alex Olinger won 8 ball and 10 ball while Julio Aquino won 9ball. The CDEF bracket paid $350 for 10ball. Alex might get home slightly ahead of his expenses, if he is very careful about what he spends. The rest are all stuck.
 
GoBilliards said:
The $40.00 has nothing to do with the payout.
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Then it's just pure coincidence that the payouts were EXACTLY 40x the number of players advertised as a "full field":

8-ball - $50,000 with 1250 players.
10-ball - $10,000 with 250 players.

The bottom line is that there were simply NOT enough players in attendance to bring in the big money. Over 8,700 people were qualified to play in the national event, and I think I was told something like 1,200 people actually showed up. That's ridiculous, for any league system.

I love the format of the league, but this was a pretty big let down for me and it has me questioning if I want to even bother with nationals next year (or else why bother playing the league).
 
stljohnny said:
Then it's just pure coincidence that the payouts were EXACTLY 40x the number of players advertised as a "full field":

8-ball - $50,000 with 1250 players.
10-ball - $10,000 with 250 players.

The bottom line is that there were simply NOT enough players in attendance to bring in the big money. Over 8,700 people were qualified to play in the national event, and I think I was told something like 1,200 people actually showed up. That's ridiculous, for any league system.

I love the format of the league, but this was a pretty big let down for me and it has me questioning if I want to even bother with nationals next year (or else why bother playing the league).
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There were nothing close to 1200 and there never were. Not on any year have they ever had more than 600 entries and that counts most people multiple times. There have never been that many and there was no reason to think that they would miraculously going to show this year. It's all smoke and mirrors.


When there was a coin drop in 2012 there was no $40.00 fee. The fee was instead of the coin drop.
 
Exact numbers for 8ball were as follows:

Masters/grandmasters division had 88 players
Class "A" had 159
Class "B" had 175
Class "CDE" had 120

That is 454. there might be a very few that played in the other tournaments that didn't play 8 ball but that number is very low. They knew how many were coming well in advance, yet they still kept the wool over the eyes of the players and the vendors.

Transparency is the key to longevity.
 
IF you are speaking on behalf of NAPA I am sure this will echo their sentiments.....

stop digging.jpg
 
The Renfro said:
IF you are speaking on behalf of NAPA I am sure this will echo their sentiments.....

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He also said he was just relaying what he was being told...

Seriously, napa is getting started here locally and I hope my friends read this thread. Was the entry fee in years past always $5 ?

Trolling here, so don't bother pointing it out please Kerr.
 
Lonestar_jim said:
He also said he was just relaying what he was being told...

Seriously, napa is getting started here locally and I hope my friends read this thread. Was the entry fee in years past always $5 ?

Trolling here, so don't bother pointing it out please Kerr.
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Weekly dues are set by the local league operator. The national office takes a small percentage (5% I think) and I believe the LO keeps 50%. The rest is supposed to go into a local prize pool. The problem is that this league is growing and the main office is making more money but not giving any back to the national event. I don't feel like doing the math just now but they make well over what would be needed to add into the national event so first place doesn't get such a small sum.

That being said I still like this league and want to see it flourish. My request still stands and has not been answered for someone in charge from the national office to come on here and communicate with the players.
 
zpele said:
Nope. From the coast. Not sure I want to say exactly where because my local LO might be mad at me for starting this thread.

Why do you ask?
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I talked to a guy from Des Moines that said basically the same thing you did in the OP. Almost word for word. Tons of people feel the same way.
 
So Zpele when you said "main office", I'm guessing you meant national right ? Either way 50% for L.O. sounds too high for GoBilliards P/E ratio or profit margin that Kerr got all excited over.

Also one question. Can you buy in to National tournament or only by qualifying ?

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