Did Souquet try to do the right thing?

[spartan]

But at some point, there will be multiple players who finish in the same (paid) spot, because there was no match played, no?

How does the $ get paid for that place?

Semifinalists get about $2500 and Souquet has earned the $2500 as he was winner of his group
If they forfeit Souquet and they officially agree that there is nothing improper in him suddenly quitting they pay him prizemoney and his name will be listed as 4th
Thorsten will be 3rd and the 2 Ko brother listed as 1st or 2nd depending on who wins the final
On other hand if they think it is was improper and wrong of Ralf to quit, they may evoke their "organizer/promoter discretion " clauses to disqualify Ralf and not pay him his prizemoney. In which case prizemoney listing will be 1st 2nd and 3rd with no 4th
they can move those best 2nd finisher in group up to 4th but that makes it all messy and is not logical also since none of them played in semi. 1st to 4th place are always semifinalists:grin-square:

 

[Kid Dynomite]

They said

First 8000
Second 5000
3/4 2750

But

Hofmann, souquet & Ko can't receive 2750 and the math/price money work out!

Ralph earned 3/4 and forfeited to ko to EARN 3/4 money! Not fair to give 5 thru 8 money cause he forfeited???

Kd

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

 

[itsfroze]

I dunno...I still don't think there was a screw-up.

Ralf was- for a truth that will likely never be known be known to us- unavailable to play his next round, so the next in line took his spot.

Makes sense to me, it keeps each round played...and what were they supposed to do? Only have first, second and fourth place finishers?

Yea you're right, that's how they do it in all tournaments.
That's why no one was surprised or upset.

Even Pin Yi was elated as he had never gotten to play an
eliminated player before in a tournament. :wink:

 

[jsp]

Ok, there's lot's of threads on the CSI Invitational that contain wild speculation...

Well, here's another one.

Ralf is taking a lot of heat for having his actions help cause this situation, many thinking there is more to it than just plane scheduling problems.

So did Ralf just try to do the right thing by thinking that Dennis didn't try his best and thus influenced who would continue from their group? Did he try to do the honorable thing and let the guy that would have continued go on, if Dennis had beaten him?
I don't know but it makes as much sense as him forfeiting because he couldn't change his plane. And IMO Ralf has always been a standup guy, so I would hate to see him get blamed for trying to do the right thing.

Interesting and plausible theory.

If Ralf truly wanted to "do the right thing" (given that he suspected Orcullo of dumping), then the timing of his forfeit was WAY off. He should have forfeited before his match with Orcullo ended.

If while down on the final 8 ball Ralf unscrewed his cue and conceded the match to Orcullo, then everyone would have known his intentions, Shane would have advanced, and the entire fiasco would have been prevented.

But then attention instead would have turned to Orcullo dumping (supposedly), which would have resulted in another fiasco in itself. Maybe Ralf wanted to prevent this, so he decided to forfeit after the match and made up a bogus story about plane tickets to quell any speculation. But doing it this way resulted in the unintended fiasco we have before us.

Here is the question. Did he receive 3rd/4th place prize money? If he wanted to do the right thing, then he would know that he truly didn't deserve 3rd/4th place.

Speculating is fun. It would be nice to get an official statement from Ralf.

 

[spartan]

They said

First 8000
Second 5000
3/4 2750

But

Hofmann, souquet & Ko can't receive 2750 and the math/price money work out!

Ralph earned 3/4 and forfeited to ko to EARN 3/4 money! Not fair to give 5 thru 8 money cause he forfeited???

Kd

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

OK
1st Ko Ping Chung and 3rd/4th Thorsten/Ko not affected.
Shane was 5th/6th $1750 but won 2nd $5000 so total prizemoney $6750
So it is just simple task of sharing the $6750 between Shane and Ralf
Shane will say he should get $5000 since he was 2nd while Ralf will say he should get $2500 at least since he got them both to semifinal
However they apportion it , it will not affect the others

 

[Andrew Manning]

But at some point, there will be multiple players who finish in the same (paid) spot, because there was no match played, no?

How does the $ get paid for that place?

In every pool tournament I've ever played in, you write it down as if the match WAS played, with Ralf losing (by forfeit). Problem solved.

-Andrew

 

[watchez]

Ralf should not have played at all in the invitational if he was not able to make flight arrangements IN THE FIRST PLACE that didn't conflict with the end of the tournament.

And he could have -- Holman who is Ralf's teammate in the World event and was also in Vega$, had a later flight booked from the get go. So did Ko Pin Yi.

Ralf should have declined the invitation when originally offered to him and CSI could have moved on to another European to take his place....or made the correct flight arrangements once he decided to play.

 

[spartan]

Ralf should not have played at all in the invitational if he was not able to make flight arrangements IN THE FIRST PLACE that didn't conflict with the end of the tournament.

And he could have -- Holman who is Ralf's teammate in the World event and was also in Vega$, had a later flight booked from the get go. So did Ko Pin Yi.

Ralf should have declined the invitation when originally offered to him and CSI could have moved on to another European to take his place....or made the correct flight arrangements once he decided to play.

The more mysterious question is why Ralf booked 7pm flight before tournament ends. And other players were not in such a hurry to get to China
Looks like the "7pm flight" likely an excuse

 

[Danimal]

This same situation recently occurred and was handled correctly.

At the last Ginky Memorial, Earl was very conspicuously absent from the list of competing pros. The Ginky has become a major tournament in NY, and many people were surprised to find that Earl, the house pro at Stienway, was not in the mix.

Turns out he had to catch a late flight that would have conflicted with the finals of the tournament.

It's tough to predict if Earl would have made it to the finals, but there was a probability of it happening. The organizers saw it fit to not have Earl play and potentially put the tournament in a compromising situation by him having to bow out late.

Earl did stop by the tournament to show face, and also lent some commentary to the live stream which was well received. As you may recall, Mike Dechaine went on to snap it off.

Mark made a bad call, but it was perpetuated by Ralf's selfishness. Even if he didn't expect to win, if he had the "let's just see how far I can go and pick up a check" mentality, it was a damaging one and it affected several layers of the pro event unfairly.

 

[punter]

This same situation recently occurred and was handled correctly.

At the last Ginky Memorial, Earl was very conspicuously absent from the list of competing pros. The Ginky has become a major tournament in NY, and many people were surprised to find that Earl, the house pro at Stienway, was not in the mix.

Turns out he had to catch a late flight that would have conflicted with the finals of the tournament.

It's tough to predict if Earl would have made it to the finals, but there was a probability of it happening. The organizers saw it fit to not have Earl play and potentially put the tournament in a compromising situation by him having to bow out late.

Earl did stop by the tournament to show face, and also lent some commentary to the live stream which was well received. As you may recall, Mike Dechaine went on to snap it off.

Mark made a bad call, but it was perpetuated by Ralf's selfishness. Even if he didn't expect to win, if he had the "let's just see how far I can go and pick up a check" mentality, it was a damaging one and it affected several layers of the pro event unfairly.

I agree re Ralf, and that's what the thread is about. If it's exactly as reported that Ralf forfeited because of his early plane, then he is really to blame, and it reflects very poorly on him. It's hard to understand how someone like Ralf could screw up his flight plans like this, when others had no problem, including his teammate Toasty. Very hard to buy. I doubt Ralf will address this, and not sure Mark will either. This too shall pass.

 

[PINKLADY]

i find it incredible, that Ralf (a constant world traveller) would scew up & mis-book his flight out. i will also say that FRI nights are THE WORST to fly out of Vegas & require a minimum 2hrs before departure.

the only plausible reason i can discern, is that he took that flight, because he booked w/ skymiles & that's all that was available? but - likewise, when you change flights w/ skymiles, it's only a $150 change fee & no fare difference (might be $200 now). period.

so, if he paid for the ticket & needed to change, it'd be the change fee plus fare difference, or a new one-way ticket. approx $1500. this, is where skymiles really come into play. and i'd guess Ralf has at least 500K skymiles.

now, throw in the rumors of "whole/partial ëxpenses covered by CSI".

if, his flight story is true, then this probably cost him a lot more than a one-way ticket. unless he had a bigger reason to leave.... and he might should have simply called-in sick w/ food poisoning.

 

[punter]

i find it incredible, that Ralf (a constant world traveller) would scew up & mis-book his flight out. i will also say that FRI nights are THE WORST to fly out of Vegas & require a minimum 2hrs before departure.

the only plausible reason i can discern, is that he took that flight, because he booked w/ skymiles & that's all that was available? but - likewise, when you change flights w/ skymiles, it's only a $150 change fee & no fare difference (might be $200 now). period.

so, if he paid for the ticket & needed to change, it'd be the change fee plus fare difference, or a new one-way ticket. approx $1500. this, is where skymiles really come into play. and i'd guess Ralf has at least 500K skymiles.

now, throw in the rumors of "whole/partial ëxpenses covered by CSI".

if, his flight story is true, then this probably cost him a lot more than a one-way ticket. unless he had a bigger reason to leave.... and he might should have simply called-in sick w/ food poisoning.

Very informative post indeed. Thanks.

 

[watchez]

now, throw in the rumors of "whole/partial ëxpenses covered by CSI".

You can throw this rumor out --- and typing rumors that you have no basis of fact and having no source of knowledge is actually irresponsible.

The expenses paid by CSI was a free room which had to be shared with another player.

Ralf never should have accepted the invitation to play if he didn't know how to book a flight at a better time.

Hell Corey didn't even book his flight to China until he was out in Vega$ and he was still able to make arrangements with no issues.

 

[punter]

Ralf never should have accepted the invitation to play if he didn't know how to book a flight at a better time.

Hell Corey didn't even book his flight to China until he was out in Vega$ and he was still able to make arrangements with no issues.

That's why the reason put forward for the forfeit sounds like BS to a lot of people. The 'plane' excuse just don't fly. What's next? Ralf forfeits because he can't remember how to screw his stick together?

 

[watchez]

That's why the reason put forward for the forfeit sounds like BS to a lot of people. The 'plane' excuse just don't fly. What's next? Ralf forfeits because he can't remember how to screw his stick together?

Ralf is definitely 100% in the wrong. I hope JCIN puts out these CSI interviews they put together during the events - the irony in Ralf's answers to some of the questions is heavy.

 

[PINKLADY]

You can throw this rumor out --- and typing rumors that you have no basis of fact and having no source of knowledge is actually irresponsible.

The expenses paid by CSI was a free room which had to be shared with another player.

Ralf never should have accepted the invitation to play if he didn't know how to book a flight at a better time.

Hell Corey didn't even book his flight to China until he was out in Vega$ and he was still able to make arrangements with no issues.

i knew that. and thank you for confirming. but several others (in some of the other 52 CSI threads), are "claiming" that their Vegas airfares were covered too. thank you for putting that rumor to rest.

and yes, it doesn't surprise me in the least, that at the last minute, Corey was able to get a fair deal & flight. (i do it all the time & only got stuck once for last Mosconi.) that's why it doesn't make sense w/ Ralf....

 

[itsfroze]

Ralf is definitely 100% in the wrong. I hope JCIN puts out these CSI interviews they put together during the events - the irony in Ralf's answers to some of the questions is heavy.

People withdraw from tournaments all the time some big some small.
It's how it was handled subsequently that made it a big deal.
That was all Mark, and Ralf had no say in that nor part of, sorry.

 

[watchez]

People withdraw from tournaments all the time some big some small.
It's how it was handled subsequently that made it a big deal.
That was all Mark, and Ralf had no say in that nor part of, sorry.

No it's all Ralf. He knew the parameters of the event when he agreed to play. Again, this was an invitational not an open event. What if 7 players arranged their travel like Ralf did? What if Ko didn't show up til the third day of the event? If you were the tournament promoter, would you invite a player like that back again? Once again, here is a pool player that is only thinking 2 minutes ahead in their life.

 

[mark187]

No it's all Ralf. He knew the parameters of the event when he agreed to play. Again, this was an invitational not an open event. What if 7 players arranged their travel like Ralf did? What if Ko didn't show up til the third day of the event? If you were the tournament promoter, would you invite a player like that back again? Once again, here is a pool player that is only thinking 2 minutes ahead in their life.

Ralf is entitled to do what he wants, he can't be held responsible about how it was handled. If Shane hadn't played in the semis Ralf wouldn't be getting stick. He had no imput in how the organisers handled things. Should there be sanctions in place to prevent things like this? Yes, but there aren't. Again, this responsibility falls to the organisers, or in an ideal world a governing body.

 

[rrick33]

I'll call you the riddler. For the second time, I started this thread defending Ralf, and I'm still not sure what got your panties in a bunch, riddler rick.

It's interesting that you claim you started this thread to defend Ralph because your rhetoric has been far less than any type of reasonable defense.

Let's hope that you are not an attorney by trade.

You wonder why my initial response was unfavorable toward your approach.......
Just look around at all the negative speculation and gossip that is initiated.

You are not the first to do this and I'm sure you will not be the last but this type of thread is just one tiny example of a million other aspects of behavior that weaken the sport. It does not instill a positive element that promotes the game.

No one here will ever get into Ralphs head and I can assure you that Ralph is not going to debase himself and respond to this thread.

All you've done is create a speculative trial by proxy with the accused unavailable to defend himself. To me that is very sad.

If you chose to debate whether the sport needs more regulation and oversight to mitigate the way things played out with Ralph, then that would be the appropriate approach. He broke no rules and there is no penalty that I'm aware of.

To simply illicit responses predicated on "Right and Wrong" and then propose that "honor" could be at stake.........is the most irresponsible approach.

Put yourself in Ralphs shoes. If you did something that wasn't well received by some players, would you ask them to judge you or would you ask them to provide recommendation/solutions on how we can make improvements to prevent the situation from reoccurring?

"if you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem."