How to Aim Pool Shots (HAPS) - new videos by Dr. Dave and Bob Jewett

[Se7en6ix]

I have a friend who has said to me that he just cant see the shots and he uses CTE and has for awhile. He is a systems nut and works on a system for practically anything.

Interesting note I saw him last week and he says: You know Im really working on my aiming and Im playing the best Ive ever played in my life the other day I was practicing and it was hard to miss a ball. You know what Im doing?

Im trying not to aim!!! lmao....of course I said...I can help you with that!!

Well it's like being a defacto word, when we say "aim" its about aiming systems.

If your friend is not aiming. I believe he uses the classic style of playing pool like all/majority of us did just look/align/feel and shoot.

I can do that too whenever i want due to the fact that I only learned CTE/SEE just a few months ago.

But to a player who's totally novice, i think an aiming system will help him shorten the learning curve on pocketing balls consistently versus a classic style of playing.


:thumbup:

I do believe CTE or Pivot based system must have its own forum.. with strict rules of only posting healthy arguments.

 

[Se7en6ix]

The funny thing is....

Everytime I see Dr. Dave, Duckie, JBCases and others Pro and Anti CTE.. the conversation turns out to be hammered!... lol

It's when somebody starts a thread and then the opposite jumps in and vice versa...

Again no disrespect meant to the names i mentioned..

 

[336Robin]

Well it's like being a defacto word, when we say "aim" its about aiming systems.

If your friend is not aiming. I believe he uses the classic style of playing pool like all/majority of us did just look/align/feel and shoot.

I can do that too whenever i want due to the fact that I only learned CTE/SEE just a few months ago.

But to a player who's totally novice, i think an aiming system will help him shorten the learning curve on pocketing balls consistently versus a classic style of playing.


:thumbup:

I do believe CTE or Pivot based system must have its own forum.. with strict rules of only posting healthy arguments.

Im with you in that new players especially could use a guide in developing the shot making skill so they will feel comfortable in what they do. When they get their feet on the ground then their skills develop. Doesnt matter what method they use to do it but I do have leaning toward knowing the object ball path to the pocket in an intimate sort of way. I just think that is a great help in learning to apply English.

 

[336Robin]

:thumbup:

Well the truth is CTE or any aiming system can't have and never will have a proper discussion with thos who are not fond of CTE. Its like oil and water but it can be both in one container.

I think it's just pride and misunderstanding that causes flame wars, i even grew tired of reading it...

all in all all we want is a healthy and informative aiming threads

I would just like to see a healthy and informative forum where we can discuss all aspects of Pool.

 

[dr_dave]

Everytime I see Dr. Dave, Duckie, JBCases and others Pro and Anti CTE.. the conversation turns out to be hammered!... lol

It's when somebody starts a thread and then the opposite jumps in and vice versa...

Again no disrespect meant to the names i mentioned..

FYI, for the record, I am not "Anti CTE," nor do I feel I was a significant "player" leading to creation of the "Aiming Conversations" forum.

The only thing I was "Anti" about was the often-ridiculous and outrageous "marketing claims" that have been made about the different versions of CTE over these many years.

On the contrary, I have done my best to document the many benefits "aiming systems" like CTE can provide to the people who use them effectively. I've also done my best to help explain and illustrate how the CTE approach actually works for the people who use it effectively. Some people don't care how things actually work; but for those who do, this stuff can be of interest.

Again, I am not "Anti" CTE.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Banks]

FYI, for the record, I am not "Anti CTE," nor do I feel I was a significant "player" leading to creation of the "Aiming Conversations" forum.

The only thing I was "Anti" about was the often-ridiculous and outrageous "marketing claims" that have been made about the different versions of CTE over these many years.

Don't forget about the 3 or 4 threads a day started by the same people.

 

[nobcitypool]

FYI, for the record, I am not "Anti CTE," nor do I feel I was a significant "player" leading to creation of the "Aiming Conversations" forum.

The only thing I was "Anti" about was the often-ridiculous and outrageous "marketing claims" that have been made about the different versions of CTE over these many years.

On the contrary, I have done my best to document the many benefits "aiming systems" like CTE can provide to the people who use them effectively. I've also done my best to help explain and illustrate how the CTE approach actually works for the people who use it effectively. Some people don't care how things actually work; but for those who do, this stuff can be of interest.

Again, I am not "Anti" CTE.

Regards,
Dave

What's the quote? "If you're not for us, you're against us." LOL

Dave, I think if you fully understood CTE/Pro One, you'd possibly have a change of heart. I can't speak for the aiming wars of old, since I wasn't around, but you haven't constantly snipped at CTE/Pro One like so many others have since I have been visiting the site. I've purchased your VEPS DVD's, have enjoyed the content in them and have frequently spoken positively of them here. I don't think you need to be defensive at all about your feelings (or lack thereof) regarding CTE/Pro One. You're obviously a very bright fellow, as is Mr. Jewitt, so you guys are certainly welcome to have whatever opinions you wish to have.

I'd prefer to consider all the positive contributions you have made to pool and this site and not get caught up in opposing views on aiming. You got 99% on one side, 1% on the other, it is absurd to spend so much time with mostly negative discussions related to the 1%.

 

[Se7en6ix]

FYI, for the record, I am not "Anti CTE," nor do I feel I was a significant "player" leading to creation of the "Aiming Conversations" forum.

The only thing I was "Anti" about was the often-ridiculous and outrageous "marketing claims" that have been made about the different versions of CTE over these many years.

On the contrary, I have done my best to document the many benefits "aiming systems" like CTE can provide to the people who use them effectively. I've also done my best to help explain and illustrate how the CTE approach actually works for the people who use it effectively. Some people don't care how things actually work; but for those who do, this stuff can be of interest.

Again, I am not "Anti" CTE.

Regards,
Dave

Well, I believe that you've done your part on explaining and illustrating the pros and cons of CTE or any pivot based systems.
Some claim that people as knowledgeable as you mocks CTE, although i believe its non intentional on your part...

I think it boils down to respect on each side..

well you said you were only "anti" about often-ridiculous and outrageous marketing claims. and i've read this part on your blog:

I have invented an amazing and new aiming system called DAM that will revolutionize pool playing all around the world. You won't find DAM in any books, because it has just been recently invented. But rest assured ... all future pool books will present DAM in its full glory. DAM is the best and most complete aiming system, that also contributes to correct body alignment, that has ever been devised. Most of the pros use it, especially the Filipino players ... that's why they are so good. DAM works on every shot, regardless of the distance between the balls, or the angle and distance to the pocket. The best thing about DAM is you don't even need to know or see where the pocket is. Just align and pivot, and the ball goes in the hole. When a good player uses the system, it is impossible to tell ... it will just look like they are naturally pocketing balls. That's when you know they are using DAM!

Try to prove that DAM doesn't work ... you can't, because it does work. If you can't make it work, it is either because you really don't understand it or you don't have an open mind. If you ask a pro if he or she uses DAM, and he or she says he or she doesn't, it is because he or she doesn't want you to know his or her secrets. The DAM system will radically improve the shot-making abilities of those who spend the time to learn it. DAM will eventually become the "aiming standard" and will significantly accelerate your learning curve. There are those who will eventually learn the system, and there are those who will not, and be beaten by those who do. If you don't think DAM works, it is because you haven't had personalized lessons with somebody who truly understands it. I make almost every shot with this system ... I rarely miss. Isn't that proof of how good it is? Don't you want to be as good as me? If you want to master the DAM system, you must visit me in person and pay outrageous sums of money to learn all of the required intricacies.

in my opinion CTE is hit by the quoted paragraph above.. but that does not mean CTE especially PRO ONE can be considered a DAM aiming system

"some" Filipino players use different pivot based system even the variants of SEE system.


My only point is that..
Why is it that certain aiming system (CTE/PRO ONE/ TOI/SEE/9090) works well with some players and being satisfied by it yet others don't? especially those who are critical about the word "aiming system".

Does that question can be answered by the second paragraph of your DAM aiming system blog?

In my opinion alone and probably all non biased CTE user that PRO ONE is to be considered true and accurate (not perfect), which exempts it from such critiques...

It can't be denied that any proven aiming system shortens the learning curve for consistently pocketing balls.

Again Dr Dave. I mean no disrespect to your name and forgive me if it looks like that, but actually its not. :grin:

Thanks

 

[justadub]

FYI, for the record, I am not "Anti CTE," nor do I feel I was a significant "player" leading to creation of the "Aiming Conversations" forum.

The only thing I was "Anti" about was the often-ridiculous and outrageous "marketing claims" that have been made about the different versions of CTE over these many years.

On the contrary, I have done my best to document the many benefits "aiming systems" like CTE can provide to the people who use them effectively. I've also done my best to help explain and illustrate how the CTE approach actually works for the people who use it effectively. Some people don't care how things actually work; but for those who do, this stuff can be of interest.

Again, I am not "Anti" CTE.

Regards,
Dave

Once again, Doc, you aren't objective on this topic.

I think you truly believe that you didn't have a hand in the festivities, but as someone who was new to the forums, and new to pool, I think I can claim to be more objective about a lot of what went on during that time period.

PJ and Lou were the most vocal on one side, and JB and Spiderweb.com among those most vocal on the other side. They spurred much of the action, for better and for worse. Of course there were many, many more....

However, Dr. Dave, in trying to bring an academic viewpoint to the debate, you certainly added fuel to the fire. And to be fair, Doc, you slipped a few times and got down into the mud with the rest of them. Fortunately you realized what was really going on, in front of the rest of the forum viewing public that wasn't directly involved in the conflict, and eased your way back out of the daily combat. I recognized it at the time, and appreciated you finding your way back onto the high road. You have FAR too much to offer the forum and pool world in general to let that whole foolishness tarnish peoples impressions of you. Good on you.

Robin, I don't go back as far as 2007, and I sat and viewed from a distance The Last Great CTE War, that which caused this sub-forum to be created. There are certain strong willed forum members (and former members, heh heh) who simply will not let go of that argument, or any other. Those who I named above, and many, many others.

(All of those who I named above have an awful lot to share with the forum. They all make great contributions here, and I appreciate reading all of them. They just can't let this stuff go, especially when the arguments involve the other guys in this little group.)

You could try and research it, but its not going to be a complete picture, as many of those threads got deleted, not just shut down. Many folks got banned for periods of time, some came back under different names and got banned again. It was craziness. It was wild wild west stuff, sort of. Tho many of those named above will cite what went on here before you or I came aboard, and the newsgroup before that, as being even crazier. This has been going on for some time, and will not ever go away.

Thus, we have the sub-forum.

And Dr. Dave's addition to the genre, which I still need to sit down and spend some serious time with, because I know it will be excellent.

 

[336Robin]

Ok....

Once again, Doc, you aren't objective on this topic.

I think you truly believe that you didn't have a hand in the festivities, but as someone who was new to the forums, and new to pool, I think I can claim to be more objective about a lot of what went on during that time period.

PJ and Lou were the most vocal on one side, and JB and Spiderweb.com among those most vocal on the other side. They spurred much of the action, for better and for worse. Of course there were many, many more....

However, Dr. Dave, in trying to bring an academic viewpoint to the debate, you certainly added fuel to the fire. And to be fair, Doc, you slipped a few times and got down into the mud with the rest of them. Fortunately you realized what was really going on, in front of the rest of the forum viewing public that wasn't directly involved in the conflict, and eased your way back out of the daily combat. I recognized it at the time, and appreciated you finding your way back onto the high road. You have FAR too much to offer the forum and pool world in general to let that whole foolishness tarnish peoples impressions of you. Good on you.

Robin, I don't go back as far as 2007, and I sat and viewed from a distance The Last Great CTE War, that which caused this sub-forum to be created. There are certain strong willed forum members (and former members, heh heh) who simply will not let go of that argument, or any other. Those who I named above, and many, many others.

(All of those who I named above have an awful lot to share with the forum. They all make great contributions here, and I appreciate reading all of them. They just can't let this stuff go, especially when the arguments involve the other guys in this little group.)

You could try and research it, but its not going to be a complete picture, as many of those threads got deleted, not just shut down. Many folks got banned for periods of time, some came back under different names and got banned again. It was craziness. It was wild wild west stuff, sort of. Tho many of those named above will cite what went on here before you or I came aboard, and the newsgroup before that, as being even crazier. This has been going on for some time, and will not ever go away.

Thus, we have the sub-forum.

And Dr. Dave's addition to the genre, which I still need to sit down and spend some serious time with, because I know it will be excellent.

Ok Justadub I'll take a swing here: I was around for some of the above mentioned and in and out during that time so if I have something wrong here please straighten me out.

It seems to me that the Aiming System Folks of that time were the CTErs up until the point that it was agreed that the term Aiming System didn't have to be synonymous with CTE . It seems to me that it was agreed that many other ways of understanding the art of aiming were Systems as well including the methods of those who were against aiming systems because what they did in order to make shots was indeed subject to doing things the same to the point of being Systematic.

Would you consider what I said above to be generally true?

 

[justadub]

Ok Justadub I'll take a swing here: I was around for some of the above mentioned and in and out during that time so if I have something wrong here please straighten me out.

It seems to me that the Aiming System Folks of that time were the CTErs up until the point that it was agreed that the term Aiming System didn't have to be synonymous with CTE . It seems to me that it was agreed that many other ways of understanding the art of aiming were Systems as well including the methods of those who were against aiming systems because what they did in order to make shots was indeed subject to doing things the same to the point of being Systematic.

Would you consider what I said above to be generally true?

I think that's generally accurate, although there were other "systems" debated in the midst of it all. Ghost ball primarily (where ya at, Duckie, bring your arrow) 90/90, and a few others, too. I seem to recall double-the-distance being discussed, and something involving the lights reflections on the balls, too. And as I'm doing this off the top of my head, I expect there were others. I expect that Sean could fill in the blanks, if he so chooses to jump back in here.

The big kahuna was CTE, of course. And that specific debate is what got the term "system" to become the lightning rod (sorry, Tim, couldn't resist) that it became.

This invoked the term "HAMB" or the "Hit A Million Balls" system. "Feel" players. And of course Dr. Dave created his DAM method during this time frame, parody as it was. And so on, and so on....

I should have taken notes. The Ballad Of The CTE Wars might have been a hit

 

[justadub]

And since we keep derailing the original point of the thread, let's review....

I am happy to announce that Bob Jewett and I just finished up a year-long project called How to Aim Pool Shots (HAPS). If you want to check it out, the following free clips are posted online:

HAPS-I: Aiming Systems, Aiming with Sidespin
NV E.1 - Fractional-Ball Aiming, from HAPS I
NV E.2 - Back-Hand (BHE) and Front-Hand English (FHE), from HAPS I
NV E.3 - Using "Gearing" Outside English to Eliminate Throw, from HAPS I

HAPS-II: Aiming Specialty Shots
NV E.4 - Carom-Shot Trisect-Draw System, from HAPS II
NV E.5 - Combination Shot Throw Adjustment, from HAPS II
NV E.6 - Rail Cut Shot Aiming, w/ and w/o Sidespin, from HAPS II

HAPS-III: Aiming Kick and Bank Shots
NV E.7 - Mirror Kick-Shot Aiming System, from HAPS III
NV E.8 - 1/3-More-Than-Twice Bank-Shot Aiming System, from HAPS III

We hope you enjoy and benefit from the clips, and we look forward to your comments and questions.

Best regards,
Dave and Bob

PS: If you want to learn more about HAPS, lots of info including a complete, detailed outline (listing everything covered) and useful online resources, can be found on the HAPS website.

 

[336Robin]

I think that's generally accurate, although there were other "systems" debated in the midst of it all. Ghost ball primarily (where ya at, Duckie, bring your arrow) 90/90, and a few others, too. I seem to recall double-the-distance being discussed, and something involving the lights reflections on the balls, too. And as I'm doing this off the top of my head, I expect there were others. I expect that Sean could fill in the blanks, if he so chooses to jump back in here.

The big kahuna was CTE, of course. And that specific debate is what got the term "system" to become the lightning rod (sorry, Tim, couldn't resist) that it became.

This invoked the term "HAMB" or the "Hit A Million Balls" system. "Feel" players. And of course Dr. Dave created his DAM method during this time frame, parody as it was. And so on, and so on....

I should have taken notes. The Ballad Of The CTE Wars might have been a hit

With all of that being said I think that there was some ground giving going on and at least a few things were accomplished.

If I have this right the main system being debated was CTE and it seemed that the struggle was mainly over...does it work.?...which I hope we can just agree right now that it works to a high degree because I don't know anyone that doesn't miss from time to time and I really don't want that debate.

Also we have the Naysayer side that no matter to what degree CTE works they aren't happy with it completely whether that be because of various claims about it or about some limitations of it concerning the application of spin to the shots because that changes the center ball aim point found with CTE. Also I think the way you have to approach shots when you're learning the System doesn't always feel comfortable to a person when they are first learning it.

I would think they don't view it as.....the whole piece of the puzzle....and I think that is where the train stays off the tracks on that side of the argument.

Does all of the above sound correct? or do I have something out of line? I agree we have strayed from the original post.

 

[justadub]

With all of that being said I think that there was some ground giving going on and at least a few things were accomplished.

If I have this right the main system being debated was CTE and it seemed that the struggle was mainly over...does it work.?...which I hope we can just agree right now that it works to a high degree because I don't know anyone that doesn't miss from time to time and I really don't want that debate.

Also we have the Naysayer side that no matter to what degree CTE works they aren't happy with it completely whether that be because of various claims about it or about some limitations of it concerning the application of spin to the shots because that changes the center ball aim point found with CTE. Also I think the way you have to approach shots when you're learning the System doesn't always feel comfortable to a person when they are first learning it.

I would think they don't view it as.....the whole piece of the puzzle....and I think that is where the train stays off the tracks on that side of the argument.

Does all of the above sound correct? or do I have something out of line? I agree we have strayed from the original post.

We truly are opening a tomb that should stay sealed.... but since PJ isn't allowed back yet and Lou won't come in this sub-forum, Spiderweb.com hasn't been around in quite a while, and JB isn't on full blast lately, why the hell not.

To me, what caused the most angst and conflict was the claim that CTE could be used for every shot, and that it was able to be proved mathematically accurate. Or something like that.

Some clung to the "absolutes" of it all, and wouldn't compromise. And some of the "naysayers" returned to this point regularly.

Of course there were many other issues debated, but the absoluteness of it all was the big issue. The claims by those who supported it weren't believed by some, and those claims then became debated as much as the system itself. Poor Stan got dragged into it, too. I say "poor Stan" as he wasn't the one initiating any of the drama, just tried to work to create a system he completely believed in and tried to market it.

(And the "marketing" was yet another issue, the fact that he tried to actually make and sell a product describing the system created even more drama.)

The term "snake oil salesman" got thrown around. Again, more conflict.

The real tragedy was that people wouldn't agree to disagree. They wouldn't concede that the other side could conceivably have a point. There wasn't any room for compromise. It was very hurtful. At least to me, a newbie coming to the forum at the time. (Not a kid, tho. I caught on to this crazy forum world fairly quickly, tho my attempts at diplomacy failed miserably. :grin: I learned to stay back and pick my spots, and watch it all unfold. I think I learned some things, too, despite all the drama.)

 

[336Robin]

Learning

We truly are opening a tomb that should stay sealed.... but since PJ isn't allowed back yet and Lou won't come in this sub-forum, Spiderweb.com hasn't been around in quite a while, and JB isn't on full blast lately, why the hell not.

To me, what caused the most angst and conflict was the claim that CTE could be used for every shot, and that it was able to be proved mathematically accurate. Or something like that.

Some clung to the "absolutes" of it all, and wouldn't compromise. And some of the "naysayers" returned to this point regularly.

Of course there were many other issues debated, but the absoluteness of it all was the big issue. The claims by those who supported it weren't believed by some, and those claims then became debated as much as the system itself. Poor Stan got dragged into it, too. I say "poor Stan" as he wasn't the one initiating any of the drama, just tried to work to create a system he completely believed in and tried to market it.

(And the "marketing" was yet another issue, the fact that he tried to actually make and sell a product describing the system created even more drama.)

The term "snake oil salesman" got thrown around. Again, more conflict.

The real tragedy was that people wouldn't agree to disagree. They wouldn't concede that the other side could conceivably have a point. There wasn't any room for compromise. It was very hurtful. At least to me, a newbie coming to the forum at the time. (Not a kid, tho. I caught on to this crazy forum world fairly quickly, tho my attempts at diplomacy failed miserably. :grin: I learned to stay back and pick my spots, and watch it all unfold. I think I learned some things, too, despite all the drama.)

Yeah I learned some thing myself...the road to heaven is paved with bodies...lol

Nothing is perfect but everything is workable even playing off the light reflections or the shadows on the table.

What amazes me about this subject is that people who do it naturally...non system that they know of....have such a hard time telling how they do what they do. I was watching a YouTube of Efren ....that I think has been taken down now....and the interviewing reporter asked him how he aimed his shots.

He just shrugged his shoulders and said I just use the edge of the ball to tell me what to do......

I mean a guy plays like that and that is what he says. You have to think about it and look into it deep to maybe get a glimpse of what he sees but he surely sees it and every good player seems to have things figured out a little differently but who knows.....its hard to envision what they see.

 

[justadub]

How about this, Robin?

If you would like to continue the history of The CTE Wars, lets start a new thread about it (in this sub-forum, heh heh) and leave Dr. Dave's thread to it's original intent.

Deal?

I promise, Doc, that I will dig into your stuff and make comments afterward. I've always valued the material you create and provide here.

 

[336Robin]

That sounds good

How about this, Robin?

If you would like to continue the history of The CTE Wars, lets start a new thread about it (in this sub-forum, heh heh) and leave Dr. Dave's thread to it's original intent.

Deal?

I promise, Doc, that I will dig into your stuff and make comments afterward. I've always valued the material you create and provide here.

That sounds good to me Im sleepy so if I don't see it tomorrow when I get online I will start it up. Wouldn't it be awesome if it doesn't end badly?

 

[stan shuffett]

Point one

Poor Stan did what he set out to do:

I put the pieces of CTE together. I did not set out to create a system.
I set out to explain and solve CTE. Hal Houle's material was and is the foundation of my work.

What I found: What anyone can know.

REAL CTE connects to the geometry of a 2x1 table.
Change the table, the system does NOT work. Change the system, it doesn't connect.
CTE connects the player to aim lines.

Stan Shuffett

 

[stan shuffett]

Point 2

Marketing was never at forefront of my purpose. I simply presented my work as it unfolded. My single goal was to solve CTE. I did so and my work resulted in an objectively true and accurate system.

NO OTHER SYSTEM CONNECTS TO THE GEOMETRY OF A 2x1 table as real CTE does......some called statements like that "marketing".... I called it the truth and still do.

Also, The TRUTH is: there are many that do NOT like the idea of real CTE being of another dimension in aiming......many do not like that real CTE does what it does. CTE is what it is......thanks, Hal!!!!

Hal was right over and over again.

Stan Shuffett

 

[stan shuffett]

Point 3

Yes, the cue ball edges tell Efren what to do and the CB edges do the same for me. The whole process of real CTE boils down to a ridiculously natural simplicity.

Efren has explained what he does with the CB edges. He aims the edges at OB quarters.
EFREN SWEEPS TO THE CB... ... Enough said.

Stan Shuffett