How to Aim Pool Shots (HAPS) - new videos by Dr. Dave and Bob Jewett

[dr_dave]

I would rather see your fact based info in the aiming
forum than the magic, voodoo, cross your eyes just so, stuff we usually find here.

I think this is a problem with all Internet forums on all topics. Anybody can present themselves as and expert and post complete nonsense and many people won't know the difference between good and bad information. I see this all of the time on computer and engineering forums, blogs, and websites (... and sometimes on AZB ).

Regards,
Dave

 

[cookie man]

I don't think HAPS is mystical enough for such a big move.

Sriously, though, does that forum still exist? I looked for it and couldn't find it. I never followed it much. The only forum I've ever really followed closely is the Main Forum.

Catch you later,
Dave

PS: Did you watch the clips yet. I know we haven't always "seen eye to eye" in the past, but I would still appreciate your input.

Well your friends lobbied for it. I don't really like a separate forum either but thats the way its become.
PS. I'll take a look later today

 

[dr_dave]

Well your friends lobbied for it.

Obviously, somebody with power (maybe an advertiser) had strong feelings about the HAPS thread. The moderators are not usually this knee-jerky.

I don't really like a separate forum either

Me neither. If people don't want to view threads, nobody is forcing them to click on them. Also, even if things get "out of control," threads should not be censored, deleted, or banished to dark corners of the site.

but thats the way its become.

I hope this trend can reverse itself over time.

PS. I'll take a look later today

Thank you. I value any input or feedback (positive or negative) you might have.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Buzzard II]

I don't care where it's posted, now than I found the thread. And yes, I just ordered the 3 disk HAPS. In spite of the sniping that goes on sometimes when Dr. Dave posts, I have always found that he offers good solid information that helps me all the time.

The amount of free info and short videos at his website are a never ending source of learning for me. Thank you Dr. Dave for all you do. You have a lot of fans out here and the quality of your DVD's far exceed most.

 

[dr_dave]

I don't care where it's posted, now than I found the thread. And yes, I just ordered the 3 disk HAPS. In spite of the sniping that goes on sometimes when Dr. Dave posts, I have always found that he offers good solid information that helps me all the time.

The amount of free info and short videos at his website are a never ending source of learning for me. Thank you Dr. Dave for all you do. You have a lot of fans out here and the quality of your DVD's far exceed most.

I sincerely thank you for your supportive post.

I appreciate it, and I hope you enjoy and benefit from the DVDs.

Best regards,
Dave

 

[justadub]

To be fair, Doc, Aiming System talk really was a major issue a few years ago. There were oh so many who cried and whined about it, that the sub-forum was created.

To expect that your likely very excellent material would be exempt, just because its yours (and Bob Jewetts) would smack of favoritism. And it would also mean that the forum admins would be endorsing your methods as to be better and/or more relevant than the others that preceded it.

After going through the whole drama that spurred creating the sub-forum, there ain't no way yours could stay in the Main Forum.

As I said, I expect it to be excellent material. I look forward to diving in and working with it.

 

[dr_dave]

To be fair, Doc, Aiming System talk really was a major issue a few years ago. There were oh so many who cried and whined about it, that the sub-forum was created.

To expect that your likely very excellent material would be exempt, just because its yours (and Bob Jewetts) would smack of favoritism. And it would also mean that the forum admins would be endorsing your methods as to be better and/or more relevant than the others that preceded it.

After going through the whole drama that spurred creating the sub-forum, there ain't no way yours could stay in the Main Forum.

Well stated. You're probably right.

However, I firmly believe that the video links I posted are very different than those historic "aiming system" threads, where very little real information was provided, and the main purpose seemed to be to sell a "system," often with sometimes-outrageous "marketing claims," with no openness to discussion or debate, and with no true sharing of information. Those threads were also full of personal attacks, as a result of the style of presentation and reaction to criticism and questions.

The HAPS thread is not about a specific cut-shot "aiming system." The topics covered are extremely diverse and closely related to many topics often discussed on the Main Forum. We are not trying to sell a specific cut-shot "aiming system." We are sharing a significant amount of specific and relevant information, with complete and open detail. We are also open to criticism and questions.

Having written all of this, I still understand how the moderators might see a need to "hide" this thread so many of the "aiming system" zealots (both "Naysayers" and "Yaysayers" whatever that means) won't feel that Bob and I are being given any sort of special treatment (even though that is not the case).

As I said, I expect it to be excellent material. I look forward to diving in and working with it.

Please share what your think, and ask any questions you might have, after you check out everything.

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[BRussell]

I bought it yesterday, along with Dave's Pool Shots and Pool Practice series, which I had been meaning to get for a while. It set me back a couple hundred, but I've been a freeloader off of Dave's site for many years now so I figured it was time to pay up.

From looking at the syllabus this new series only includes about the first half of the first of three DVDs on "aiming" in the sense of aiming systems as we usually think about it. The rest of it is on kick and bank shots, combinations, masse, jump, etc.

I'm wondering about the overlap between this series and the others, especially his Video Encyclopedia of Pool Shots set, which seems very comprehensive and at least from the outline looks like it includes a lot of this stuff.

But from his YouTube channel and his free web resources, I've learned to trust Dr. Dave's stuff, so I look forward to checking it all out.

 

[Gerry Williams]

I will share what I think.

This post isn't professional.

Historic aiming threads, very little info, main purpose to sell (unlike you here) and outrageous claims - be specific if you need to, no need to make broad brush statements with no facts.

Is this material your own or a collection from various sources?

You should not be taking pot shots at the work that people have put their heart and soul into.

Gerry

Well stated. You're probably right.

However, I firmly believe that the video links I posted are very different than those historic "aiming system" threads, where very little real information was provided, and the main purpose seemed to be to sell a "system," often with sometimes-outrageous "marketing claims," with no openness to discussion or debate, and with no true sharing of information. Those threads were also full of personal attacks, as a result of the style of presentation and reaction to criticism and questions.

The HAPS thread is not about a specific cut-shot "aiming system." The topics covered are extremely diverse and closely related to many topics often discussed on the Main Forum. We are not trying to sell a specific cut-shot "aiming system." We are sharing a significant amount of specific and relevant information, with complete and open detail. We are also open to criticism and questions.

Having written all of this, I still understand how the moderators might see a need to "hide" this thread so many of the "aiming system" zealots (both "Naysayers" and "Yaysayers" whatever that means) won't feel that Bob and I are being given any sort of special treatment (even though that is not the case).


Please share what your think, and ask any questions you might have, after you check out everything.

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

I bought it yesterday, along with Dave's Pool Shots and Pool Practice series, which I had been meaning to get for a while. It set me back a couple hundred, but I've been a freeloader off of Dave's site for many years now so I figured it was time to pay up.

From looking at the syllabus this new series only includes about the first half of the first of three DVDs on "aiming" in the sense of aiming systems as we usually think about it. The rest of it is on kick and bank shots, combinations, masse, jump, etc.

I'm wondering about the overlap between this series and the others, especially his Video Encyclopedia of Pool Shots set, which seems very comprehensive and at least from the outline looks like it includes a lot of this stuff.

There is a small amount of "overlap" of material among VEPS, VEPP, and HAPS; however, there are also significant differences. FYI, brief descriptions of each series can be found on the Dr. Dave's Instructional Products summary page. Concisely, VEPS is about all shots and situations possible at the table, VEPP is a pool workout consisting of a large collection of drills and challenge games designed to help one develop the skills necessary to execute the VEPS shots, and HAPS is strictly about how to aim many of the shots. VEPS and VEPP don't really get into fundamentals (like the BU DVD series) and aiming (HAPS) very much.

I look forward to seeing what you think after you review all of the DVDs. Please let us know if you think the money was well spent or not. Please be honest, even if your review is negative (in part or full).

But from his YouTube channel and his free web resources, I've learned to trust Dr. Dave's stuff, so I look forward to checking it all out.

Thank you for your vote of confidence. I hope you are not disappointed with your purchase.

Best regards,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

I will share what I think.

Thanks, Gerry. I have a lot of respect for your level of play and would value any feedback you might offer.

This post isn't professional.

Historic aiming threads, very little info, main purpose to sell (unlike you here) and outrageous claims - be specific if you need to, no need to make broad brush statements with no facts.

I probably should have waited a day or so before I replied. I was very disappointed and defensive about the moderators hiding my thread from the Main Forum without even notifying me. After dedicating so much work over such a long period of time on this stuff, I wanted to share it openly and see what people think, so you can probably understand my disappointed when I noticed the thread disappeared from the Main Forum without notice. Again, I probably should have calmed down first, before replying.

Concerning some of the "outrageous claims" that have appeared in many "aiming system" threads over these many years, check out the italicized "sales pitch" at the top of the DAM resource page. Many of those claims are actually direct quotes or paraphrases from statements posted by "aiming system" proponents on pool Internet forums (RSB, BD CCB, and AZB) over the years.

Is this material your own or a collection from various sources?

Some things were developed or discovered by myself and Bob (e.g., the 1/3-more-than-twice banking system, the 30-degree-rule peace sign and its applications, the draw-shot trisect system, the two-times fuller system, etc.). Some comes from well understood and previously-presented physics (e.g., the gearing outside english stuff). And much of it is just lots of pool common sense (not attributed to any one person), presented in a clear, concise, complete, organized, and illustrative way.

You should not be taking pot shots at the work that people have put their heart and soul into.

I didn't intend to direct my negativity at any specific individuals, just at the long past history of "aiming system" marketing and pool Internet forum flame wars. Luckily, there seems to be less of that sort of thing in recent years than there was many years ago.

Again, you are right ... I should have been more restrained in my reaction ... and more professional. Thank you for helping to set me straight.

Best regards,
Dave

 

[jburkm002]

Greats stuff Dr. Dave. Do you cover parallel english as well? I have always been discouraged by other instructional videos. They might say they are playing high right english or I am using 2 0clock. They would never explain if they were using BHE, FHE or parallel and why. Think I mainly use FHE and on certain shots I may use parallel. Plan to experiment with BHE.

 

[dr_dave]

Greats stuff Dr. Dave.

Thanks.

Do you cover parallel english as well? I have always been discouraged by other instructional videos. They might say they are playing high right english or I am using 2 0clock. They would never explain if they were using BHE, FHE or parallel and why. Think I mainly use FHE and on certain shots I may use parallel. Plan to experiment with BHE.

There seems to be two different interpretations of the phrase: "parallel english." The one I use, which I think is the most common is:

parallel english: Aim the shot center-ball and then shift the cue, keeping it parallel to the center-ball line of aim to create the amount of sidespin you want (i.e., don't pivot to compensate for squirt, swerve, or throw).

This does work for certain types of shots, and we do cover this on HAPS. This type of parallel english can also work if you adjust the cue elevation and shot speed for each shot based on shot distance and conditions. We don't cover this, as it is very difficult to do, and we don't recommend it.

Some people use "parallel english" to refer to bringing the cue into the necessary line of the shot, intuitively compensating for squirt, swerve, and throw. This is what most top players do. We also cover this on HAPS; although we don't call it "parallel english," because we don't think that is an appropriate use of the phrase.

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[sfleinen]

Thanks, Gerry. I have a lot of respect for your level of play and would value any feedback you might offer.

I probably should have waited a day or so before I replied. I was very disappointed and defensive about the moderators hiding my thread from the Main Forum without even notifying me. After dedicating so much work over such a long period of time on this stuff, I wanted to share it openly and see what people think, so you can probably understand my disappointed when I noticed the thread disappeared from the Main Forum without notice. Again, I probably should have calmed down first, before replying.

Concerning some of the "outrageous claims" that have appeared in many "aiming system" threads over these many years, check out the italicized "sales pitch" at the top of the DAM resource page. Many of those claims are actually direct quotes or paraphrases from statements posted by "aiming system" proponents on pool Internet forums (RSB, BD CCB, and AZB) over the years.

Some things were developed or discovered by myself and Bob (e.g., the 1/3-more-than-twice banking system, the 30-degree-rule peace sign and its applications, the draw-shot trisect system, the two-times fuller system, etc.). Some comes from well understood and previously-presented physics (e.g., the gearing outside english stuff). And much of it is just lots of pool common sense (not attributed to any one person), presented in a clear, concise, complete, organized, and illustrative way.

I didn't intend to direct my negativity at any specific individuals, just at the long past history of "aiming system" marketing and pool Internet forum flame wars. Luckily, there seems to be less of that sort of thing in recent years than there was many years ago.

Again, you are right ... I should have been more restrained in my reaction ... and more professional. Thank you for helping to set me straight.

Best regards,
Dave

As an outsider, I'd like to weigh in on this one. Dave, your post was a knee-jerk reaction -- and once again, your reply to Gerry is *also* a knee-jerk reaction, wrapped in a "you're right" patronizing wrapper.

You say you calmed down, but it's obvious you haven't. I'm not fond either that the topic of aiming had to be moved into its own subforum, because it IS a component of good pool. But as is the case with any forum, it takes a life of its own, based on how people react. And in this case (AZB's case), the topic of aiming is a lightning-rod topic.

So, lock, stock, and barrel, the WHOLE topic of aiming had to be moved into its own little world. Not just "aiming sales pitches," not just "aiming zealousy," not just aiming banter -- but the WHOLE topic of aiming. That includes instructional material like yours.

I know you somehow think your stuff is exempt from the rules, but it ain't.

Again, I probably speak for a lot of folks in not being fond that Aiming had to be pulled away from the Main forum, because it's roughly analogous to pulling the ignition system out of a car "because it makes flames."

But them's the rules. Hopefully, you'll begrudgingly notice how much quieter the forums are these days? (Yes, there are still more lightning-rod topics, but Aiming turned out to be the grand poo-bah of them all.)

-Sean

 

[dr_dave]

As an outsider, I'd like to weigh in on this one. Dave, your post was a knee-jerk reaction -- and once again, your reply to Gerry is *also* a knee-jerk reaction, wrapped in a "you're right" patronizing wrapper.

You're right. :grin-square:

I'm not fond either that the topic of aiming had to be moved into its own subforum, because it IS a component of good pool. But as is the case with any forum, it takes a life of its own, based on how people react. And in this case (AZB's case), the topic of aiming is a lightning-rod topic.

So, lock, stock, and barrel, the WHOLE topic of aiming had to be moved into its own little world. Not just "aiming sales pitches," not just "aiming zealousy," not just aiming banter -- but the WHOLE topic of aiming. That includes instructional material like yours.

I'm with you on this one. However, I though the "Aiming Conversations" forum would be limited to cut-shot aiming systems like fractional-ball, CTE, 90/90, SAM, and stuff like that.

Topics like BHE, FHE, CIT, SIT, aiming when using sidespin, CB control with sidespin, kick and bank-shot systems, pre-shot routine, visual alignment, draw-shot cue-ball control, aiming specialty shots like caroms, kisses, combos, and elevated-cue shots, and other topics covered on HAPS would still be fair game for the Main Forum. In fact, there has been and continues to be many threads involving these and related topics on the Main Forum since the "Aiming Conversations" sub-forum was established.

I know you somehow think your stuff is exempt from the rules, but it ain't.

I agree 100%. It's just not clear what the "rules" are. If every thread with the word "aim" were removed from the Main Forum, it probably wouldn't be very "Main" anymore.

Again, I probably speak for a lot of folks in not being fond that Aiming had to be pulled away from the Main forum, because it's roughly analogous to pulling the ignition system out of a car "because it makes flames."

I think it's more like pulling the engine out of the car because every shot and situation at the table requires aiming and proper visual alignment.

Best regards,
Dave

 

[sfleinen]

[...]
I agree 100%. It's just not clear what the "rules" are. If every thread with the word "aim" were removed from the Main Forum, it probably wouldn't be very "Main" anymore.
[...]

Well, if it's any consolation, the letters that constitute the word "aim" are also in the word "main," so at least that connection will always be there.


-Sean

 

[dr_dave]

Well, if it's any consolation, the letters that constitute the word "aim" are also in the word "main," so at least that connection will always be there.


-Sean

And don't forget, "pool" starts with a "P" which rhymes with "T" which stands for "trouble."

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[BeiberLvr]

For the last time, CTE is NOT fractional aiming.

The shot diagrammed below is a half ball hit. Yes, the CTE visuals of CTEL and ETB would be a half ball hit if you did not use a manual or visual sweep.

However, the correct visual/pivot to make this ball using CTE/Pro One would be CTEL and ETC with a right pivot/sweep.

 

[dr_dave]

For the last time, CTE is NOT fractional aiming.

I agree. CTE is NOT fraction aiming. However, the different versions of CTE are "partly based on" fractional-ball aiming. The alignments, "visuals," and cut angle ranges are based on fractional-ball "aims."

Regards,
Dave

 

[naji]

I am happy to announce that Bob Jewett and I just finished up a year-long project called How to Aim Pool Shots (HAPS). If you want to check it out, the following free clips are posted online:

HAPS-I: Aiming Systems, Aiming with Sidespin
NV E.1 - Fractional Ball Aiming, from HAPS I
NV E.2 - Back-Hand (BHE) and Front-Hand English (FHE), from HAPS I
NV E.3 - Using "Gearing" Outside English to Eliminate Throw, from HAPS I

HAPS-II: Aiming Specialty Shots
NV E.4 - Carom-Shot Trisect-Draw System, from HAPS II
NV E.5 - Combination Shot Throw Adjustment, from HAPS II
NV E.6 - Rail Cut Shot Aiming, w/ and w/o Sidespin, from HAPS II

HAPS-III: Aiming Kick and Bank Shots
NV E.7 - Mirror Kick-Shot Aiming System, from HAPS III
NV E.8 - 1/3-More-Than-Twice Bank-Shot Aiming System, from HAPS III

We hope you enjoy and benefit from the clips, and we look forward to your comments and questions.

Best regards,
Dave and Bob

PS: If you want to learn more about HAPS, lots of info including a complete, detailed outline (listing everything covered) and useful online resources, can be found on the HAPS website.

Using "Gearing" Outside English to Eliminate Throw, the shot Bob showing in the video he stuns the OB with outside, which squirts CB the right amount to right, and have the EIT take OB to pocket? Am i right?
Another issue, IMO, any shot that is about a diamond or less separation stun or part stun will always be there, unless hit soft..
Also, please have Bob do cut to left pocket to ensure he is not steering CB!

Thanks.