to all you apa bashers...and all league haters also

[RobMan]

Do you know what percentage of APA members support their local hall on days other than league nights?
How much money do APA members spend on average when they go to the pool hall?
These are legitimate questions and im not bashing anyone in any kind of way.

Actually I don't think the first question is relevant at all. For many player, that may be their one night out for the week. The team I played on for a few years spent LOTS of money -- food and big bar tabs. Again, it was the one night out for many of these folks who might otherwise go bowling or go out to a sportsbar.

I would assume that if they did not bring much revenue in then the hall would quit hosting the leagq. I can tell you that hall I frequent lost a LOT of APA to another hall a few miles away, and now those nights are like ghost towns....

 

[3RAILKICK]

I don't play in APA, but I play in an in-house league.

I don't know if league fees/or a separate green fee are charged to compensate the room owner for the use of tables during APA nights.

Our league (16 four-person teams) doesn't charge a 'greens fee' for league night.

In our case, and perhaps the APA too, the room owner makes his money from food and drink to more than offset 'lost' table rental time. Often league nights are mid week, that might not otherwise rent a lot of tables.

The point, at least to me, is that APA and other leagues, help fund keeping the room doors open, rather than close down.

This is a good thing imho, since then there is a room for the real players to hang out...and allow somebody else to pay the tab...since real players don't spend much money in the poolroom...but can be real good at only playing/paying when they have the nuts...hungarian or otherwise.

ps: maybe 20% of our league night players are regulars at the room, entering tournaments, PPV fights, food and drink, etc.

Most of our league players are there only on league night as a low level competitive, yet fun night out....but they spend money.

People, especially 'real' pool players, will figure ways to game the system for their own benefit...sandbagging, bad hits, etc....bangers have much to learn...about many things.

Rather than support your local APA, or other leagues/or not discussions...support your local poolroom...should enter the discussion too/instead.

 

[lorider]

The problem is, it is done under the guise of an organization that is all about pool. When people join, they are led to believe the money they put in is going toward a prize fund or Vegas trip, or something that will come back to them or their fellow league players in some kind of way. They don't know that the APA is a FOR PROFIT organization! They don't know that league operators and franchise owners are getting rich off of their league dues. I have no problem with someone working hard and doing well for themselves. I have a problem with them swindling money to do so!
Maybe it's just the area in which I participated. But believe me, if any of you saw what went on (and probably still goes on) in the Chattanooga area APA, you would be in total agreement with me!

Leagues are good for business. Leagues are good for pool in general. That I understand and agree with. My experience with the APA has just left such a bad taste that will never go away. I won't get on here and bash them just to bash them, but when I see someone singing their praises I feel a need to share the other story as well. People need to know what they are getting into before they make an uneducated decision. After that, the choice is theirs.

i am not trying to put the apa ona pedestal or anything like that. i am just trying to point out that it seems to ba a popular pastime for a majority of posters to bash the apa every time the apa is mentioned.

to me the apa is no better or worse than any other league.

as for your statement about profit.

what is your opinion on an organization where the owner makes the following statement. I DONT CARE WHAT RULES YOU PLAY BY OR WHAT FORMAT YOU USE AS LONG AS YOUR DUES ARE PAID.

would you agree this statement makes it seem like its all about the money ?

why is this organization not bashed for being a FOR PROFIT organization like the apa continually is ?

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

no i dont think i have a reading comprehension problem. you hate apa for that rule ?

that rule is in effect in all leagues.

But other leagues have the ability to penalize the cheating shooter on the spot. The APA has 'guidelines' and such that prevent any poor sportsmanship from properly being penalized. In the BCA, that unsportsmanship move leads to an instant forfeit. In the APA the match has to be played out. You do have a reading problem as you seem no not notice the recurring theme.

The head APA office, along with every single LO abides by a ruleset that prevents fair play from happening. You're right it's not a ponzi scheme, it's a pyramid scheme. You force teams to break up due to the handicap rule or sandbag. The APA specifically tells all their LO's to not make any ruling decisions and to let the head office take care of it. You notice at no point have I ever blamed a player, yet you continually quote me as saying I do. When the players don't have enough ethical responsibility to know what the rules are and abide by them without being a dick, then that is a problem with the LO and the head APA office. Not that player.

I used an example of a player blatantly breaking a rule and getting away with it as a way to show why the APA is wrong, and you try and twist what I said. I don't blame the player, he knows full and well how poorly the APA enforces its rules. It's the APA I blame for not enforcing their rules and kicking out the problem players.

i am not trying to put the apa ona pedestal or anything like that. i am just trying to point out that it seems to ba a popular pastime for a majority of posters to bash the apa every time the apa is mentioned.

to me the apa is no better or worse than any other league.

as for your statement about profit.

what is your opinion on an organization where the owner makes the following statement. I DONT CARE WHAT RULES YOU PLAY BY OR WHAT FORMAT YOU USE AS LONG AS YOUR DUES ARE PAID.

would you agree this statement makes it seem like its all about the money ?

why is this organization not bashed for being a FOR PROFIT organization like the apa continually is ?

But you are trying to say the APA is better than other leagues because of XXXX and YYYY and sometimes ZZZZZZ. Yes the APA is for profit, why else would you own a league. To make money. It's us greedy pool players that expect the LO's to work for free. It's us players that put demands where demands aren't supposed to be. Also learn the difference between qualified for Vegas and eligible. The BCA, ACS, VNEA, and NAPA yearly have more people eligible for national level competition because participation is the factor in determining if you want to attend or not. The APA requires people to win to attend Vegas. Winning does not require knowledge or respect.

 

[Pushout]

Good grief

 

[lorider]

Do you know what percentage of APA members support their local hall on days other than league nights?
How much money do APA members spend on average when they go to the pool hall?
These are legitimate questions and im not bashing anyone in any kind of way.

maybe i just have the wrong opinion based on what i see around here compared to what every one on here states about their experience. maybe my area is unique in the pool scene.

we have an untold number of people around here that play more than one apa division. i have played apa 3 nights a week and know quite a few that play 4-5 nights a week.

i know quite a few play more than one league. i myself play 2 apa divisions,, 2 napa divisions and an in house money league every week.

i know quite a few go to the pool hall once or twice a week to practice on nights they dont play...especially right before playoffs start.

i know quite a few that play an in house league on 9 footers evey week also besides playing apa.

i know quite a few that play tournys on weekends that they dont have a chance in hell of winning....me included.

i know quite a few that have custom cues. quite a few have jump cues also because they also play masters and napa which allows jump cues.

to answer your question ...i spend a little over a 100.00 a week playing pool. multiply that by several hundred more in my area that play apa and maybe you will understand why i get offended by posts on here degrading apa players.

 

[nobcitypool]

There are sandbaggers, cheaters and poor sports in every sport league out there. It is not confined to pool and it certainly isn't limited to APA. Any league is only as good as the league members. My experience is the vast majority of APA members are good folks. I can only speak for our local LO here in Indianapolis, I think they (co-owners) do an excellent job.

I guess my problem is I just love to play pool. I refuse to let all the petty crap diminish my enjoyment.

 

[lorider]

But other leagues have the ability to penalize the cheating shooter on the spot. The APA has 'guidelines' and such that prevent any poor sportsmanship from properly being penalized. In the BCA, that unsportsmanship move leads to an instant forfeit. In the APA the match has to be played out. You do have a reading problem as you seem no not notice the recurring theme.

The head APA office, along with every single LO abides by a ruleset that prevents fair play from happening. You're right it's not a ponzi scheme, it's a pyramid scheme. You force teams to break up due to the handicap rule or sandbag. The APA specifically tells all their LO's to not make any ruling decisions and to let the head office take care of it. You notice at no point have I ever blamed a player, yet you continually quote me as saying I do. When the players don't have enough ethical responsibility to know what the rules are and abide by them without being a dick, then that is a problem with the LO and the head APA office. Not that player.

I used an example of a player blatantly breaking a rule and getting away with it as a way to show why the APA is wrong, and you try and twist what I said. I don't blame the player, he knows full and well how poorly the APA enforces its rules. It's the APA I blame for not enforcing their rules and kicking out the problem players.



But you are trying to say the APA is better than other leagues because of XXXX and YYYY and sometimes ZZZZZZ. Yes the APA is for profit, why else would you own a league. To make money. It's us greedy pool players that expect the LO's to work for free. It's us players that put demands where demands aren't supposed to be. Also learn the difference between qualified for Vegas and eligible. The BCA, ACS, VNEA, and NAPA yearly have more people eligible for national level competition because participation is the factor in determining if you want to attend or not. The APA requires people to win to attend Vegas. Winning does not require knowledge or respect.

its perfectly acceptable to agree to disagree but let me clarify my point.

i did not say apa was better....i just think it does not deserve all the bashing it gets on here.

for the record....i have stated this on here before and will again now. I THINK NAPA IS THE BEST LEAGUE OUT THERE.

no league is perfect though. if i refused to play in a league due to certain rules i did not like...shyster lo's or negative experiences i encountered i would just have to quit pool entirely.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

i did not say apa was better....i just think it does not deserve all the bashing it gets on here.

So a league that has built rules to 'promote' the sport like you say shouldn't have a problem promoting respect and ethics within that sport right? But the APA does seem to have a problem at the local level. Yes the national event demands you behave within a manner befitting the requirements that you qualified for nationals. But what requirements are there for you to behave respectfully and ethically at the local level? There is supposedly a rule. A rule that only the head office can enforce.

Everytime you hear of APA bashing, it's due solely on the head office for taking the power away from the LO to police their own league. Yes some offences are instant removal from the league, but most require a paper trail of work to have that person kicked out of the league. The APA protects their money first and foremost. The players come second.

 

[owll]

Where I'm at, when its league night, it looks like the local mobile home community emptied out into the pool hall.....with the expected level of character, integrity, and antics....(I think most league players should be tested for, and then treated for ADD)....There is a fairly good size group of solid players who do their best to avoid the pool hall on league nights (mon, wed, thurs I dont want to be anywhere near the place)....I think anyplace thats want to do leagues should keep the 8' and 9' tables well seperated, or expect their 9' business to disappear on league nights.

 

[justadub]

So a league that has built rules to 'promote' the sport like you say shouldn't have a problem promoting respect and ethics within that sport right? But the APA does seem to have a problem at the local level. Yes the national event demands you behave within a manner befitting the requirements that you qualified for nationals. But what requirements are there for you to behave respectfully and ethically at the local level? There is supposedly a rule. A rule that only the head office can enforce.

Everytime you hear of APA bashing, it's due solely on the head office for taking the power away from the LO to police their own league. Yes some offences are instant removal from the league, but most require a paper trail of work to have that person kicked out of the league. The APA protects their money first and foremost. The players come second.

I sat on a board of governors review a year and a half ago, where a local player was banned from our division, for an incident at one room. This didn't go thru St. Louis, this was all handled locally.

It seems to me that you had issues where you live. That doesn't mean its like that e erywhere.

I've never seen any blatant cheating, relying on the "call goes to the shooter" rule. I expect that were that to occur here, our LO would have no problem stopping it.

 

[miscrewed89]

i am not trying to put the apa ona pedestal or anything like that. i am just trying to point out that it seems to ba a popular pastime for a majority of posters to bash the apa every time the apa is mentioned.

to me the apa is no better or worse than any other league.

By starting this thread you sort of opened the door for the APA bashing. I'm not saying you have to agree with my opinion. You have your own and that's fine. I simply shared mine and the reasons behind it. What I can say about leagues in general: I have played in no other league which had as much unsportsmanlike conduct, unscrupulous LOs, or corruption as did the APA. Sure, the other leagues had their problems. The difference was in the other leagues the problems were handled by the LOs in a fair and professional manner. Unsportsmanlike conduct was not tolerated and players or teams caught cheating were dealt with. I also saw no favoritism shown by LOs as I did in the APA. It just seemed like at the "cities" if you didn't play out of one of 2 or 3 certain bars you just got a big middle finger from the LO. Then if you voiced your opinion, suddenly everyone on your team has their handicap raised. Some to the point of disqualification due to the 23 rule.

This was my very first experience with the APA:
I had been playing pool for several years but had never played in the APA league. When I transferred to a 1st shift position at work my weeknights opened up. A friend asked me to join his APA team as the league session was just starting. I agreed. As the rules state, I started with a handicap of 4. Immediately, the team captain of the opposing team started crying about my handicap. After we told him I had never played APA and that's why I was a "4" he said, "well we'll see about that!"
I played my match against another "4" and beat him 3-0.
The Sunday following the first week of play there was always a tournament for current APA players. It followed APA rules and all players played their respective handicaps. I entered the tournament and I remember there was a long delay in starting because they wanted updated handicaps for all players. When the LO finally arrived with the handicap sheets the updated handicaps were determined and the tournament got under way. When my match was called my handicap was a "7."
That was the first of many red flags from the APA. They have a set of rules. They have a format for starting players and their handicaps either go up or down from there. In maybe 3 or 4 weeks I would have legitimately reached the "7" level. But they took it upon themselves to go ahead and handicap me despite the system already in place.
As time went by, I saw more and more of this, especially when it got close to "cities." I saw players' handicaps raised and some lowered the DAY OF "cities." Then afterwards their handicaps were returned to what they were before. Like I stated earlier, maybe this was just the way it was done in Chattanooga. But since this is what I experienced, I have my opinion of the APA.

 

[buckshotshoey]

i just do not understand why so many people dis like the apa so much. you guys are always complaining about the apparent decline of pool but yet want to bash the most successful organization in introducing new players to our sport.

without this influx of new players apa brings in every year our sport would be worse off than it is today. your favorite term for these new players is " bangers"

well let me tell you about these " bangers ". thousands of them progress in skill level as time goes by . hence the common complaint about players going up and teams cant meet the 23 rule.

thousands of them buy pool cues and as time goes buy get more serious and progress to custom cues. thousands of them get more serious and start spending time practicing and help keep pool halls open.

quite a few times i have seen posts on here joking or complaining about encountering bangers. remarks about newbies encroaching upon " your precious space " by playing on a table near you. remarks about they did not know where the rack was or looking for where to put the quarters in on a 9 footer.

guys like you are what gives pool a bad name. whats wrong with taking a lil time from your precious practice time to embrace these bangers and take them under your wing teaching them a few techniques or proper pool etiquette ?

kinda funny how the better you play or the more serious you get you tend to look down your nose at people who are new at this game. i guess you all forget that you were bangers at one time ...unless you come out of your mothers womb with a cue in your hand shooting like svb .

you want to play serious pool ? apa can accommodate you. join masters. its a race to 7 with no handicap. just show up and hope you got what it takes to play even with the best in town.

want to play on 9 footers ? play the us amateur. you gotta play damn near pro speed to have a chance finishing in the top 10.

no other organization out there offers a competitive environment for people who dont know how to a hold a cue properly all the way up to some one who is capable of running rack after rack.

you guys oughta be thankful there is sch an organization as apa instead of bashing it all the time.

............................... well said....... it won't stop the whiners though.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

.When the LO finally arrived with the handicap sheets the updated handicaps were determined and the tournament got under way. When my match was called my handicap was a "7."
That was the first of many red flags from the APA. They have a set of rules. They have a format for starting players and their handicaps either go up or down from there. In maybe 3 or 4 weeks I would have legitimately reached the "7" level. But they took it upon themselves to go ahead and handicap me despite the system already in place.

A tournament that isn't associated with qualifying for Vegas is not required to follow the rules for handicapping. Due to you being new and not having enough matches to have an accurate handicap, in order to be fair to all other players you get the play as max skill level. This is done in many places and leagues. If you aren't an established player with a current, up to date skill level. You are forced to play as the highest skill level possible. Maybe you got upset that you couldn't cheat win the tourney, but fair is fair even if you feel it harms someone. Can't wait for this same situation to happen in a non APA event and you complain then.

You need more exposure to different attitudes. Some rules that people don't like about the APA are pretty much universal rules. The problem is, other leagues have rules that protect the integrity of the players while the APA doesn't have such rules.

 

[buckshotshoey]

By starting this thread you sort of opened the door for the APA bashing. I'm not saying you have to agree with my opinion. You have your own and that's fine. I simply shared mine and the reasons behind it. What I can say about leagues in general: I have played in no other league which had as much unsportsmanlike conduct, unscrupulous LOs, or corruption as did the APA. Sure, the other leagues had their problems. The difference was in the other leagues the problems were handled by the LOs in a fair and professional manner. Unsportsmanlike conduct was not tolerated and players or teams caught cheating were dealt with. I also saw no favoritism shown by LOs as I did in the APA. It just seemed like at the "cities" if you didn't play out of one of 2 or 3 certain bars you just got a big middle finger from the LO. Then if you voiced your opinion, suddenly everyone on your team has their handicap raised. Some to the point of disqualification due to the 23 rule.

This was my very first experience with the APA:
I had been playing pool for several years but had never played in the APA league. When I transferred to a 1st shift position at work my weeknights opened up. A friend asked me to join his APA team as the league session was just starting. I agreed. As the rules state, I started with a handicap of 4. Immediately, the team captain of the opposing team started crying about my handicap. After we told him I had never played APA and that's why I was a "4" he said, "well we'll see about that!"
I played my match against another "4" and beat him 3-0.
The Sunday following the first week of play there was always a tournament for current APA players. It followed APA rules and all players played their respective handicaps. I entered the tournament and I remember there was a long delay in starting because they wanted updated handicaps for all players. When the LO finally arrived with the handicap sheets the updated handicaps were determined and the tournament got under way. When my match was called my handicap was a "7."
That was the first of many red flags from the APA. They have a set of rules. They have a format for starting players and their handicaps either go up or down from there. In maybe 3 or 4 weeks I would have legitimately reached the "7" level. But they took it upon themselves to go ahead and handicap me despite the system already in place.
As time went by, I saw more and more of this, especially when it got close to "cities." I saw players' handicaps raised and some lowered the DAY OF "cities." Then afterwards their handicaps were returned to what they were before. Like I stated earlier, maybe this was just the way it was done in Chattanooga. But since this is what I experienced, I have my opinion of the APA.

First of all, I don't buy the whole team getting raised because of a complaint. I smell bullshit here. A call to the national office would have had this LO removed. And don't say it can't be done. Ours was removed 2 years ago for various reasons. As for you being put to a 7, the rule says .... well known, highly skilled players can be assigned a handicap that reflects their true ability. And you admit you would have been a 7 "after a few weeks". You were sandbagging, plain and simple. You got what you deserved.

 

[miscrewed89]

A tournament that isn't associated with qualifying for Vegas is not required to follow the rules for handicapping. Due to you being new and not having enough matches to have an accurate handicap, in order to be fair to all other players you get the play as max skill level. This is done in many places and leagues. If you aren't an established player with a current, up to date skill level. You are forced to play as the highest skill level possible. Maybe you got upset that you couldn't cheat win the tourney, but fair is fair even if you feel it harms someone. Can't wait for this same situation to happen in a non APA event and you complain then.

You need more exposure to different attitudes. Some rules that people don't like about the APA are pretty much universal rules. The problem is, other leagues have rules that protect the integrity of the players while the APA doesn't have such rules.

Whoa there mister! Cheat to win the tourney? I WAS NEW TO THE APA!! How was I cheating for Christ's sake? My handicap was changed to a "7" after 1 match and remained there the rest of my time with the APA.
By the way, I finished 2nd in the tourney to a guy who played better than me and was ranked a "5."
At the time, this incident bothered me a little but I shrugged it off. As time went on, though, I began to see the unscrupulousness of that league. And as situation after situation piled up I began to form what is now my opinion.

I could fill many pages with my negative APA experiences, but I'm not going to do that. It seems most people have seen and experienced similar situations and have their reasons for not playing APA. I know there are a few die hard supporters and that's great, too, I guess. It's good to see, though, that most have graduated to "big boy pool" whether they gamble or not. They are the ones who have come to realize their game improves much more quickly and greater when they don't play with a handicap!

 

[trob]

My problem with Apa in our local league. ... Notice I said our league not necessarily every lol is with the lo.. We just got kicked out or quit which ever you choose and our heading to tap because we had enough. Our local lo decided that it's going to allow teams that can't play to remain in the league and still charge us $30 for a match that can't be played. In fact in another division a team dropped out before the season began and still let them on the schedule so every team is going have to pay $30 for a ghost team that doesn't exist. I've paid for forfiets in the past with no problem but refused to pay for a match against a team that couldn't be played.
The other is a symptom I see here is in two years few got better. I never even when I was first learning to play just aimed at the lowest numbered ball on the table and hit it as hard as I could and hoped for the best but I see it every night I'm the Apa from people that have been playing for a couple years. My team doesn't do it because I have the knowledge to teach people the right way to play. No one wants to get better. Who can afford to ? Then your team is broken up and if you qualified for ltc you don't want to risk it.
One of our last nights I gave the other team a little shit for being uneducated. but they were playing a 2 an he made some nice long shots...not a peep but when he would miss and it would bang off 3 balls and in another pocket they would yell nice shot and cheer lol I said do you guys understand this game at all. That was terrible ...not a good shot. He's made some but. You idiots can't tell the difference lol I was kind of out of patience for the league at that point lol

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

Whoa there mister! Cheat to win the tourney? I WAS NEW TO THE APA!! How was I cheating for Christ's sake? My handicap was changed to a "7" after 1 match and remained there the rest of my time with the APA.
By the way, I finished 2nd in the tourney to a guy who played better than me and was ranked a "5."
At the time, this incident bothered me a little but I shrugged it off. As time went on, though, I began to see the unscrupulousness of that league. And as situation after situation piled up I began to form what is now my opinion.

I could fill many pages with my negative APA experiences, but I'm not going to do that. It seems most people have seen and experienced similar situations and have their reasons for not playing APA. I know there are a few die hard supporters and that's great, too, I guess. It's good to see, though, that most have graduated to "big boy pool" whether they gamble or not. They are the ones who have come to realize their game improves much more quickly and greater when they don't play with a handicap!

Handicap really means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Either you are willing to improve or you're not. Handicapping is required to get the lesser skilled players to play that higher skilled player with the thought they can win. I was new to the APA at one point in time too. And before I had an established handicap I was forced to play a couple APA tournaments as max skill level. Did I complain? Nope. Why didn't I complain? Because all the other players except me had established handicaps. Here's a novel idea for you, next time you want to complain about being 'wronged' make sure your stance lies with the facts and not the emotions you think and feel should be heard.

It's easier to apologize to one person for making them play at a higher skill level than to apologize to an entire tournament roster for letting someone enter at a lower skill level. Had you played as a '4' and won that tournament and then shortly thereafter been raised to a '7' would you of bothered to apologize to the tournament players for scamming your way to a win? From the sound of your reply you wouldn't of. You would of told them to complain to the TD/LO for not rating you correctly. Should give the APA more time as I believe it's a perfect fit for you.

 

[lorider]

By starting this thread you sort of opened the door for the APA bashing. I'm not saying you have to agree with my opinion. You have your own and that's fine. I simply shared mine and the reasons behind it. What I can say about leagues in general: I have played in no other league which had as much unsportsmanlike conduct, unscrupulous LOs, or corruption as did the APA. Sure, the other leagues had their problems. The difference was in the other leagues the problems were handled by the LOs in a fair and professional manner. Unsportsmanlike conduct was not tolerated and players or teams caught cheating were dealt with. I also saw no favoritism shown by LOs as I did in the APA. It just seemed like at the "cities" if you didn't play out of one of 2 or 3 certain bars you just got a big middle finger from the LO. Then if you voiced your opinion, suddenly everyone on your team has their handicap raised. Some to the point of disqualification due to the 23 rule.

This was my very first experience with the APA:
I had been playing pool for several years but had never played in the APA league. When I transferred to a 1st shift position at work my weeknights opened up. A friend asked me to join his APA team as the league session was just starting. I agreed. As the rules state, I started with a handicap of 4. Immediately, the team captain of the opposing team started crying about my handicap. After we told him I had never played APA and that's why I was a "4" he said, "well we'll see about that!"
I played my match against another "4" and beat him 3-0.
The Sunday following the first week of play there was always a tournament for current APA players. It followed APA rules and all players played their respective handicaps. I entered the tournament and I remember there was a long delay in starting because they wanted updated handicaps for all players. When the LO finally arrived with the handicap sheets the updated handicaps were determined and the tournament got under way. When my match was called my handicap was a "7."
That was the first of many red flags from the APA. They have a set of rules. They have a format for starting players and their handicaps either go up or down from there. In maybe 3 or 4 weeks I would have legitimately reached the "7" level. But they took it upon themselves to go ahead and handicap me despite the system already in place.
As time went by, I saw more and more of this, especially when it got close to "cities." I saw players' handicaps raised and some lowered the DAY OF "cities." Then afterwards their handicaps were returned to what they were before. Like I stated earlier, maybe this was just the way it was done in Chattanooga. But since this is what I experienced, I have my opinion of the APA.

i started this thread due to a couple of comments in another apa thread.it does not bother me if some one prefers xxx league over apa just like it dont bother me if i prefer coke and you prefer pepsi.

as for your experience in being raised and the hullabaloo surounding it i went through the same thing.

in fact during the middle of my 1st match the opposing captain got on the phone complaining about my handicap when i was beating the crap out of her 7. i thought that was rude and petty as hell. i was listening to her complain to him while i was shooting. at least she could have waited until the match was over.:grin:

i dont know how well you play or the circumstanses surrounding your being raised ....it seems like your lo went over board according to what you posted.

i have went up...down...and back up again all in the same weekend during cities.

the thing is people complain about the prevalence of sandbagging but also complain about team mates ...or them selves being raised . the lo is dammned if he dont raise this person and dammned if he raises that person.

whether you know it or not the national office takes a hard stanse on sandbagging...especially during nationals. lo's have been fined and put on probation if their area has a history of teams being disqualified at nationals.

taking that into consideration i can see whaere a lo err;s on the side of caution during cities to avoid players laying low and then show their true speed at nationals.

do some lo's not pay enough attention to handicaps ? absolutely.

do some players fall through the cracks no matter how diligent an lo is ? absolutely.

in retrospect ...the apa being 4 times larger than any other league it seems likely you will hear 4 times the complaints ..all things being equal.

 

[cluelesscuer]

The apa is very much like pro wrestling...

They pretend to be an organization that cares about creating and governing competition...but they don't.

It's all an act...Like a pro wrestling match that has a referee. (The referee isn't there to really ref the match...but to be an actor and portraying someone ref'ing a match.)

And this is a great analogy to what the apa is. It's fake...all of it's fake.

The APA doesn't care about getting rid of manipulative idiots (the captains often) who want to 'play' the system to get to vegas (which is kind of sad considering, it's a crap vacation in a crap part of the strip in 110 plus degree weather, which there is really nothing to be won). They turn a blind eye to the apa lawyers and these captains because they are the ones bringing in the $...