Should Pro Players Be Able To Play In Amateur Events???
- Thread starter Pete
- Start date
Pete,
As there is no definition of what a "pro" player is or how one becomes one, virtually everyone is an amateur. If I decide tomorrow to claim I'm a "pro" I am one! Pretty dumb don't you think?
The Joss Northeast Nine Ball Tour is a semi-professional tour. Everyone is welcome. Well most everyone. Thee are a few players barred from competing. Behavior not ability.
There is much confusion about "pro" players as sanctioning bodies such as BCAPL allow them to play in amateur events by calling them Grand Masters. Other sanctioning groups such as APA and ACS specifically bar such players.
As long as there is no "ruling" body for all amateur and professional players, such inconsistencies will remain.
Lyn
Aside from the top players, the Amateur/Pro Status is blurry at best. Without a true sanctioning body to determine "Pro" speed, players can call themselves what ever they want. As far as "Pros" playing in amateur events, why not? Most amateur events are handicapped so it should be fair. IMO, even most local "open" events are "Amateur" events without a definitive sanctioning body. When an Amateur enters into an open event, he/she knows what they are getting into so it really shouldn't matter either way.
When people say "no Pros" they mean no people that play at Pro speed. Emily is a B, B+ player. Women Pros especially the US ones are A level players even at the top ranks with a very few actual Open and Pro level players world wide and quite a few "ranked" women pro players are low level B players and some I'd stick in the C+ category (I'm looking at you Shanelle. No really, I am, very nice to look at.). I don't know of any US woman "Pro" that is actually a "Pro" level player.
So to sum up: No Pros means guys like SVG, Duel, Dechaine, Immonen, Bergman, etc... can't play, not anyone that wants to call themselves a "pro". A lot of those sponsored "pro" players my 14 yr son could beat half the time.
If I went around calling myself a Pro then was allowed to enter in a B-C-D event I'd be pretty embarrassed myself LOL
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Who is SVG? I'm intrigued
You try typing while eating a taco!
What about a Pro player hosting an Open tournament at their own establishment, putting up added money and then playing in the tournament and mowing down the customers to take 1st place?
Pete, "pro" can mean many things. In the world of Female pros, the bar is lower and the range of pros is much broader. In this case, Emily plays in WPBA events but she also plays about even with her boyfriend who is ranked a B player in local tournaments.
most "pro's" will never be able to play ameteur events if the operator knows the talent.
Banks
Banned
It all depends on the people participating in the tournament. Tournaments aren't put on because people have nothing better to do. They're put on to get customers in the door.
The real question should be.. why should a pro feel it necessary to play in those tournaments and what can be done to give them an alternative?
The real question should be.. why should a pro feel it necessary to play in those tournaments and what can be done to give them an alternative?
When Emily Duddy is presenting herself to the general population (the non-pool playing community, also known as "the rest of the world"), it's important for her to convey her status as a "professional". It's the only way they'll understand her appropriate status in women's competitive pool. Once she returns to Pool World, she's entitled to play in any event that her ability permits because we, the pool community, understand.
EDIT: I wanted to also add, there are very few people IN THE WORLD that can truly say they are professional pool players. It's an amateur sport. In a time when pool is suffering immensely, it's important to create *inclusive* competitive situations, not exclusive. If you banned Emily from amateur tournaments, she might just quit playing pool which happens more often than anyone would care to think.
EDIT: I wanted to also add, there are very few people IN THE WORLD that can truly say they are professional pool players. It's an amateur sport. In a time when pool is suffering immensely, it's important to create *inclusive* competitive situations, not exclusive. If you banned Emily from amateur tournaments, she might just quit playing pool which happens more often than anyone would care to think.
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Well said..........
During my travels teaching and playing I play in many of the local weekly tournaments to get to know the players and have some fun. These are usually $10 or $15 entry, races to 3 or 4.
Every once in a while I will have a player get angry that they let a pro in their tournament. I'm 62 and capable of playing at a pretty high level sometimes but I'm allowed to play in all mature events.
Very frustrating to have this happen and sometimes it causes some venting and almost a fight with an individual here and there.
I introduce myself as a professional teach that can play at a higher level. When players get on my site and see videos of me playing some bonifide pros and winning some of these matches they just assume I should be in that category.
And the sad thing is I just get in these to mingle and have some fun with the local players. Not to try and take off their $80 for first.
I was in that Big tourney in Galvaston Texas about 4 years ago and they had the Pro event on the 9 footers and the amateur event on the bar tables. I only played in the bar table event. The next day before the amateur event started they read off about 25 names of players that were considered to be pro players and said they could not play in the amateur event.
I'll never forget how surprised Richie Rich was that I got to play in the bar table event. And I agreed with Richie that there were so many good players that played the event. There was no way to make a fair cut off as to who could and who couldn't play.
You did a very good job here of explaining the problem.
During my travels teaching and playing I play in many of the local weekly tournaments to get to know the players and have some fun. These are usually $10 or $15 entry, races to 3 or 4.
Every once in a while I will have a player get angry that they let a pro in their tournament. I'm 62 and capable of playing at a pretty high level sometimes but I'm allowed to play in all mature events.
Very frustrating to have this happen and sometimes it causes some venting and almost a fight with an individual here and there.
I introduce myself as a professional teach that can play at a higher level. When players get on my site and see videos of me playing some bonifide pros and winning some of these matches they just assume I should be in that category.
And the sad thing is I just get in these to mingle and have some fun with the local players. Not to try and take off their $80 for first.
I was in that Big tourney in Galvaston Texas about 4 years ago and they had the Pro event on the 9 footers and the amateur event on the bar tables. I only played in the bar table event. The next day before the amateur event started they read off about 25 names of players that were considered to be pro players and said they could not play in the amateur event.
I'll never forget how surprised Richie Rich was that I got to play in the bar table event. And I agreed with Richie that there were so many good players that played the event. There was no way to make a fair cut off as to who could and who couldn't play.
You did a very good job here of explaining the problem.
And if a pro does play in a bar box event, they'll get eaten alive by all the bar box champion sharks................:dance:
On a bar box, there is no difference between a pro and amateur.
This topic comes up all the time. In a nutshell, the difference is whether we are talking about "marketing titles" or "playing ability".
From the marketing standpoint, ED is a member of the WPBA, therefore, she can use the "pro" title.
As far as playing ability, she is a mid level amateur, about the same level as the majority of us that play in those events.
At the end of the day, she can call herself "world champion", but based on her playing ability, she should be allowed to play.
Eric
I feel like it's even worse than that though. Part of me thinks everyone already knows how good ED is and they have this debate to just fan the flames. Like, are we REALLY talking about this again? Again, I want to stress the point that you and I have both made, the title of "pro" isn't really meant for us. It's meant for a much bigger audience, one that Emily hopes to get some sort of support from. The moment she became a WPBA touring pro, she made a commitment (admittedly, not truly an obligation) to compete in their events, pay the hotel fees, the airfare, the entry fees for an opportunity to recoup some of it if she plays well. Anything she gets on the side by self-promotion should be sought-after and her methods, so long as she's reasonably honest, understood. It's not like she's trotting around saying she's the world champ.