question for Dr. Dave about grip pressure

alphadog

alphadog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I feel my break is stronger when..
I have a solid grip on the cue at contact. I believe this is because ,my grip makes my hand/arm part of the cue=far greater mass.Am I correct on this?Also a solid grip reduces the resilency of the cue?
I know energy is m•v squared and a tight grip slows the cue.I just dont hit em that fast anyways.
Thanks for all you do.
 
Excepting the break (and other <trick> shots requiring similar speed), you should use as little grip pressure as possible. For short easy shots I just let gravity hold the cue in my curled fingers, adding pressure only so to prevent the cue from sliding backwards as the forehand moves forward.
 
alphadog said:
I feel my break is stronger when..
I have a solid grip on the cue at contact. I believe this is because ,my grip makes my hand/arm part of the cue=far greater mass.Am I correct on this?Also a solid grip reduces the resilency of the cue?
I know energy is m•v squared and a tight grip slows the cue.I just dont hit em that fast anyways.
Thanks for all you do.
Click to expand...

It depends on how you break but you are unable to snap your wrist forward at point of contact if you grip too hard during the break.
 
MitchAlsup said:
Excepting the break (and other <trick> shots requiring similar speed), you should use as little grip pressure as possible. For short easy shots I just let gravity hold the cue in my curled fingers, adding pressure only so to prevent the cue from sliding backwards as the forehand moves forward.
Click to expand...

And that, my friend, is exactly why I like using a cue with a leather grip. A non wrap cue will do the same but I like the feel and control of leather. In my case, leather lux. Irish linen is just too slippery for me in all the the more humid environments. I've been told far too often that leather wraps are useless, a luxury, or frivolous. Not so.
 
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Yep!

buckshotshoey said:
And that, my friend, is exactly why I like using a cue with a leather grip. A non wrap cue will do the same but I like the feel and control of leather. In my case, leather lux. Irish linen is just too slippery for me in all the the more humid environments. I've been told far too often that leather wraps are useless, a luxury, or frivolous. Not so.
Click to expand...

I rubber grip will do the trick as well. I first saw Hill Billy using them at a tournament in Houston. They are a little tricky to install, but once on work great at giving a you a non-slip grip.
 
alphadog said:
I feel my break is stronger when..
I have a solid grip on the cue at contact.
Click to expand...
Tightening the grip at the end of the stroke into the ball can be helpful, assuming the grip is relaxed before and during most of the stroke into the ball. Grip tightening is one technique variation suggested in my break technique advice video. I think the increase in grip tightness also involves slight wrist flick and maybe slightly more elbow flex (due to extra biceps contraction), both of which can add a little power (but I'm not sure).

alphadog said:
I believe this is because ,my grip makes my hand/arm part of the cue=far greater mass.Am I correct on this?
Click to expand...
I've never tested this hypothesis, but I don't think the grip hand can have much effect during the brief tip contact time. For explanations why, see:

effects of light vs. tight grip

With a "death grip," there might be a small increase in effective cue mass, but I would be skeptical until I saw convincing experimental results. I'll add this to my list of things to check out in the future.

Regards,
Dave
 
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Thanks now then on a lighter note-Is there anything you can recommend to improve AZer's reading comprehension skills?

Thanks again!
 
MitchAlsup said:
Excepting the break (and other <trick> shots requiring similar speed), you should use as little grip pressure as possible. For short easy shots I just let gravity hold the cue in my curled fingers, adding pressure only so to prevent the cue from sliding backwards as the forehand moves forward.
Click to expand...

Hey, me too! I'm a gravity gripper (stamp it and trademarked). Has done wonders on my ball speed and long shots!
 
Grip pressure is a fairly uncertain effect, if you're talking about physics. Dr. Dave just mentioned he's skeptical that it make a significant difference.

In terms of biomechanics, though, it can be pretty huge. Muscle tension can reduce the speed you're able to move the cue, but also might increase the activation of the biceps and thus actually increase the speed of the cue. Tension could prevent a natural wrist action that adds to your stroke when you're loose, or tensing at the last moment could actually add wrist action that you don't normally have in your stroke.

Biomechanics are not as straightforward as physics. There is probably not an answer to this question that would apply to every player. Although it usually grates on my nerves when people give this response because they just don't know the right answer, this is one case where "whatever works best for you personally" is actually the best answer.

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
Grip pressure is a fairly uncertain effect, if you're talking about physics. Dr. Dave just mentioned he's skeptical that it make a significant difference.

In terms of biomechanics, though, it can be pretty huge. Muscle tension can reduce the speed you're able to move the cue, but also might increase the activation of the biceps and thus actually increase the speed of the cue. Tension could prevent a natural wrist action that adds to your stroke when you're loose, or tensing at the last moment could actually add wrist action that you don't normally have in your stroke.

Biomechanics are not as straightforward as physics. There is probably not an answer to this question that would apply to every player. Although it usually grates on my nerves when people give this response because they just don't know the right answer, this is one case where "whatever works best for you personally" is actually the best answer.

-Andrew
Click to expand...

Good post Andrew. I'll just leave it at that. Good Post.

Best Wishes,
Rick
 
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I don't think you need much grip pressure at all. You will need just a skosh, so you don't lose control of the cue in the delivery stroke. Let the cue do the work for you.

Loosening & tightening the grip in your hand can give you variable results. Too many moving parts for me.

Once you've learned a good sound delivery (some speed, lots of accuracy, good rhythm & smooth coordination), through repetition, your Break Shot will assist you in winning matches.
 
Andrew Manning said:
dr_dave said:
I don't think the grip hand has much effect during the brief tip contact time. For explanations why, see:

effects of light vs. tight grip

With a "death grip," there might be a small increase in effective cue mass, but I would be skeptical until I saw convincing experimental results.
Click to expand...
Grip pressure is a fairly uncertain effect, if you're talking about physics. Dr. Dave just mentioned he's skeptical that it make a significant difference.
Click to expand...
What I am skeptical about is whether or not grip tension can have significant effect on the effective mass of the cue during the tip-CB collision (per my quote above).

Andrew Manning said:
dr_dave said:
Tightening the grip at the end of the stroke into the ball can be helpful, assuming the grip is relaxed before and during most of the stroke into the ball. Grip tightening is one technique variation suggested in my break technique advice video. I think the increase in grip tightness also involves slight wrist flick and maybe slightly more elbow flex (due to extra biceps contraction), both of which can add a little power (but I'm not sure).
Click to expand...
In terms of biomechanics, though, it can be pretty huge. Muscle tension can reduce the speed you're able to move the cue, but also might increase the activation of the biceps and thus actually increase the speed of the cue. Tension could prevent a natural wrist action that adds to your stroke when you're loose, or tensing at the last moment could actually add wrist action that you don't normally have in your stroke.
Click to expand...
I agree completely, per the blue text in my quote above.

Regards,
Dave
 
I would think that, whether or not it can affect the break speed, a tightening grip through the stroke could negatively affect the aim. If you're swinging smoothly with a loose grip, and then tighten up as you swing towards the cue ball, you're likely to change the path of the stroke.

And I speak from experience on that point!
 
BRussell said:
I would think that, whether or not it can affect the break speed, a tightening grip through the stroke could negatively affect the aim. If you're swinging smoothly with a loose grip, and then tighten up as you swing towards the cue ball, you're likely to change the path of the stroke.

And I speak from experience on that point!
Click to expand...

And my experience says the same thing. The thing is, IMO, is whether or not one is using the cue weight alone or whether one is trying to add force & what type of stroke one is using, pendulum, piston, piston J, or whatever.

The best breakers are the ones that can add force without sacrificing accuracy.

Since we are all of different heights, etc. & strengths & with slow twitch or fast twitch muscles, I don't think one method fits all.

One needs to experiment with both methods & determine for themselves which works best FOR THEM & not subscribe to a cookie cutter approach.

We are an assorted bag of cookies.

Best Wishes to Everyone,
Rick
 
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