Shane and the Mosconi Cup [Puts on Fire Proof Suit]

[sjm]

Some players are slow starters. Players like Shane and Earl can catch a gear and run over anybody. This is their edge - they learn to channel the momentum to win. Alternate break and sloppy pockets take away a lot of Shane's otherwise massive advantage. This format, as you say, does not suit him in the least.

I'm not sure alternate break is the problem, The problem is that Shane's break is best when the pockets are tight, not loose. Even with alternate break, I believe he'd be awesome in singles on that equipment.

My own experience offers some guidance here. I play pool twice a week (at least when I'm not traveling) and one day it's on a bucket table and the other day it's on a tight table. I make a ball on the break way more often on the bucket table than on the tight one, just as one would expect. Contrastingly, on tight equipment, Shane's ability to make a ball on the break is practically undiminished.

If, hypothetically, I had to play Shane, I'd want to play him on the bucket table, where my break is far more effective than on the tight table. Shane will break well wherever we play.

The easier equipment levels the playing field with respect to the break. It's a reality for me every week! I believe the equipment is more of an issue than the use of alternate break for Shane at the Mosconi.

 

[Nostroke]

I somewhat disagree for the following reasons.

At the level that SVB and other pros play at, they have to play the table and not the opponent. It isn't like league where a high skill level can just leave a lower skill level a long shot and hope to get back to the table.

If you agree with the previous statement, the last 2 matches that SVB played can effectively be compared to a single race to 10 because he stayed at the table and continued to play after the first match.

If you agree with the previous statement, SVB would have lost the longer match to Darren Ekonomopoulos or Nikos Appleton 4-10.

I think there was a lot of pressure that Team USA wasn't used to performing under and as a result they made mistakes that they wouldn't usually make.

you didnt understand what i said at all.

 

[Solomon]

you didnt understand what i said at all.

My apologies. Please disregard my post.

 

[(((Satori)))]

Shanes MC game is weaker for sure but Darren's not getting enough credit either. Shane was beat after the first sign of adversity yesterday imo. 8 in a row could play a big part in that. That's not only MC victories, that's 8... now 9 victories the last o times they have played from what I understood. That's huge. Shane wants to win bad obviously, that's great for practice but it can be detrimental in tight competition, especially against someone who you might have confidence issues with from the beginning. Ehren said in a TAR broadcast that the weakest part of Shane's game was his mental game and I'm not going to doubt it.

 

[GDC]

I'm not sure alternate break is the problem, The problem is that Shane's break is best when the pockets are tight, not loose. Even with alternate break, I believe he'd be awesome in singles on that equipment.

My own experience offers some guidance here. I play pool twice a week (at least when I'm not traveling) and one day it's on a bucket table and the other day it's on a tight table. I make a ball on the break way more often on the bucket table than on the tight one, just as one would expect. Contrastingly, on tight equipment, Shane's ability to make a ball on the break is practically undiminished.

If, hypothetically, I had to play Shane, I'd want to play him on the bucket table, where my break is far more effective than on the tight table. Shane will break well wherever we play.

The easier equipment levels the playing field with respect to the break. It's a reality for me every week! I believe the equipment is more of an issue than the use of alternate break for Shane at the Mosconi.

I agree with your logic about the alternating break ... the guy with the better break should still have the edge with all else being equal. I also agree that at a championship professional level, the equipment should be truly tough. However, the thing this tighter pocket logic doesn't explain for me is SVB's shotmaking ... he missed a lot and tighter pockets would have magnified that even more. I think momentum is a big factor with Shane's mental game and an area for improvement.

 

[sjm]

Shanes MC game is weaker for sure but Darren's not getting enough credit either. Shane was beat after the first sign of adversity yesterday imo. 8 in a row could play a big part in that. That's not only MC victories, that's 8... now 9 victories the last o times they have played from what I understood. That's huge. Shane wants to win bad obviously, that's great for practice but it can be detrimental in tight competition, especially against someone who you might have confidence issues with from the beginning. Ehren said in a TAR broadcast that the weakest part of Shane's game was his mental game and I'm not going to doubt it.

Darren is widely recognized as one of the best few.

Shane, Dennis, KoPin Yi, Niels and Darren are likely the world's five best players right now.

Darren is a superstar of the highest order and, yes, he gets his due.

 

[(((Satori)))]

Darren is widely recognized as one of the best few.

Shane, Dennis, KoPin Yi, Niels and Darren are likely the world's five best players right now.

Darren is a superstar of the highest order and, yes, he gets his due.

By you yes but to hear others talk Shane is clearly better because he beat Darren when Darren was brave enough to play him in the TAR studio.

 

[runouteasy]

Shanes MC game is weaker for sure but Darren's not getting enough credit either. Shane was beat after the first sign of adversity yesterday imo. 8 in a row could play a big part in that. That's not only MC victories, that's 8... now 9 victories the last o times they have played from what I understood. That's huge. Shane wants to win bad obviously, that's great for practice but it can be detrimental in tight competition, especially against someone who you might have confidence issues with from the beginning. Ehren said in a TAR broadcast that the weakest part of Shane's game was his mental game and I'm not going to doubt it.

Appleton has his number and they both know it. Just the ebb and flow that happens with 2 closely matched opponents. Appleton is playing the best pool of his entire life the past few months. Shane was playing so well, then comes a cooling off period.

I'd like to see them in a 3 day race to 25 10 ball called shot challenge. You guys might be surprised how that one would turn out if played now.

 

[SakuJack]

I was surprised at the decision to put Shane up twice straight away.

Coming back from a loss to Darren to win his second match was always going to be a big ask, so by playing him twice in a row you're essentially relying on him to beat Darren in the first match, which is a coin flip at best. Hindsight is 20/20, though.

 

[sjm]

I agree with your logic about the alternating break ... the guy with the better break should still have the edge with all else being equal. I also agree that at a championship professional level, the equipment should be truly tough. However, the thing this tighter pocket logic doesn't explain for me is SVB's shotmaking ... he missed a lot and tighter pockets would have magnified that even more. I think momentum is a big factor with Shane's mental game and an area for improvement.

Oh, you're absolutely right. I was analyzing the breaking issue in a vacuum.

Shane's mediocre offensive execution and even worse kicking can't be ignored in assessing why he was unsuccessful this year at the Mosconi.

 

[Richardson]

I was surprised at the decision to put Shane up twice straight away.

Coming back from a loss to Darren to win his second match was always going to be a big ask, so by playing him twice in a row you're essentially relying on him to beat Darren in the first match, which is a coin flip at best. Hindsight is 20/20, though.

I agree with this. I don't want to question Mark however........... The strategy used throughout the MC I don't necessarily agree with :/

Day 1, let the young kids play and get their feet wet. Day 2 fall back on SVB / Corey / JS. The problem I see is MW was trying to win every match. Where Johan was trying to win 3 of the 5. That's all you have to do.

I'll offer my services to MW and team USA for next year. I can provide strategy with years of experience and I can help as a motivational speaker!!!!! You know, from someone who's actually played pool for 20 years!

 

[ineedaspot]

Darren is widely recognized as one of the best few.

Shane, Dennis, KoPin Yi, Niels and Darren are likely the world's five best players right now.

Darren is a superstar of the highest order and, yes, he gets his due.

There need to be more Taiwanese players on this list. One of the Changs at least. Chang Yu Lung placed higher than Shane, Dennis, and Darren in both the WPC and China Open.

 

[(((Satori)))]

There need to be more Taiwanese players on this list. One of the Changs at least. Chang Yu Lung placed higher than Shane, Dennis, and Darren in both the WPC and China Open.

I certainly agree with this.

 

[corvette1340]

Appleton has his number and they both know it. Just the ebb and flow that happens with 2 closely matched opponents. Appleton is playing the best pool of his entire life the past few months. Shane was playing so well, then comes a cooling off period.

I'd like to see them in a 3 day race to 25 10 ball called shot challenge. You guys might be surprised how that one would turn out if played now.

That will not happen because Darren won't play him. Ask him, I already have.

 

[GDC]

I don't think anyone is arguing Shane's ability in long race formats ... that is clearly his strength. Personally, I would like to see him really develop around his weaknesses ... which appear to be short, non-momentum formats.

A factor we haven't really brought up in any of this is SVBs relative youth. I think age will continue to mature his mental game. If you take a look at Feijen today and compare him to say the 2009 Mosconi Cup ... there is a stark contrast in his mental game from then to today.

 

[runouteasy]

That will not happen because Darren won't play him. Ask him, I already have.

Good thing you ducked my bet yesterday.

If you didn't ask Darren in the past few months I expect it will be a different answer.

Love to see them play race to 25, three races for something comfortable like 5k a set of their own. Some streamer/room owner needs to make this happen.

 

[JoeyA]

I'll put my guess in too

SVB KNOWS in the longer races that he can overcome a flub or two and his skills will eventually win-out. He shoots with confidence and knows he can get there.

In the MC format with races to 5, alternate break, this confidence doesn't exist. There is tremendous pressure on him and he shoots scared.

Next year cut Amir and lets get a sport psychologist for Shane.

As I have mentioned previously, the entire team needs the insight and direction of a sport psychologist, imo. The Mosconi Cup is a TEAM SPORT and most sport psychologists understand the dynamics and differences of competing individually and as a team.

The players need to pay for the sports psychologist out of their own personal pocket. If they don't do this, a LOT of the value will go in one ear and out the other. The players have to have some skin invested in this part of the journey.

JoeyA

 

[GDC]

As I have mentioned previously, the entire team needs the insight and direction of a sport psychologist, imo. The Mosconi Cup is a TEAM SPORT and most sport psychologists understand the dynamics and differences of competing individually and as a team.

The players need to pay for the sports psychologist out of their own personal pocket. If they don't do this, a LOT of the value will go in one ear and out the other. The players have to have some skin invested in this part of the journey.

JoeyA

I completely agree with this. Athletes at the highest levels in all other sports do this.

 

[SakuJack]

The players need to pay for the sports psychologist out of their own personal pocket. If they don't do this, a LOT of the value will go in one ear and out the other. The players have to have some skin invested in this part of the journey.

JoeyA

lol, good luck with that.

 

[Lynch]

I agree with this as well and definitely think it couldn't hurt!

As I have mentioned previously, the entire team needs the insight and direction of a sport psychologist, imo. The Mosconi Cup is a TEAM SPORT and most sport psychologists understand the dynamics and differences of competing individually and as a team.

The players need to pay for the sports psychologist out of their own personal pocket. If they don't do this, a LOT of the value will go in one ear and out the other. The players have to have some skin invested in this part of the journey.

JoeyA