At what point is smoking bad for business?

trustyrusty said:
do you believe that a business owner should have the right to open an establishment to cater to him and others like him? Or once the state decides that he is a minority and society has spoken, he can not have choices of places where he can smoke in a public setting? Or is it, since you and the majority of the public don't want to be bothered by something that you don't participate in, then that act shouldn't be allowed anywhere? You can choose to not go somewhere just as well as he can, right?
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Sure, as long as he/she is not breaking any laws. But laws have been enacted to protect people. Should a business owner be able to open an establishment to sell crack and meth because there are customer who would like such an establishment? No, because doing so is illegal. Smoking in public establishments is illegal in many places as well.

Now, if your asking if I beleive such laws are appropriate, then yes I do. You can say that the free market should take care of such things, but this didn't really work. When smoking was legal I didn't know a single restraunt that went non-smoking before the bans started. It wasn't bcause there weren't people who wanted non-smoking places but because business knew that people wouldn't stop going out completely and workers couldn't give up every resteraunt job because there were no other non-smoking ones to go to. So non-smokers suffered from a complete lack of alternatives. And it's not just something that is annoying, it causes actual health problems to those subjected to it for prolonged periods of time.

It's the same reason we enact laws governing emissions standards, limits on harmful chemicals in our food, etc. Sometimes the government does need to step in to protect its citizens from unnecessary harm by others. It would be nice if free market economics had taken care of that for us, but, unfortunately, it failed to do so and at some point governments decided to step in and correct that failing.

It hasn't hapoened everywhere yet...exercise your rights and move to a different state if you don't like it.
 
As long as your bringing ass's in the door that's all that matters. Here in pa the non smoking places and the smoking places are both doing well.
 
Arizona put in a smoking ban a few years back. It was punt in about the same time the recession hit. The combination of the two events killed off many Pool Rooms, Bars with Pool Tables, and Sports Bars with Pool Tables in the Phoenix Metro Area.

Would guess about 50-100 places that were in business, are no longer in business.
 
KJ Cues said:
I'm sorry also that you missed the gist of the statement.
I don't go to tourneys anymore, pool-halls or bars.
Do you think I'm alone?
The issue has automatically lessened the number of clientele in any of these businesses.
I still smoke; I enjoy it. I just don't spend my money at places that don't allow me to smoke.
May be stupid to you but it works for me.

KJ
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Too funny, you chose smoking over playing a great sport like pool, in leagues or tourneys or going out and hanging with friends and drink a couple of beers...because you have to walk 25 feet to feed your disgusting habit... Maybe you should kick your addiction, just a thought.
 
slide13 said:
Sure, as long as he/she is not breaking any laws. But laws have been enacted to protect people. Should a business owner be able to open an establishment to sell crack and meth because there are customer who would like such an establishment? No, because doing so is illegal. Smoking in public establishments is illegal in many places as well.

Now, if your asking if I beleive such laws are appropriate, then yes I do. You can say that the free market should take care of such things, but this didn't really work. When smoking was legal I didn't know a single restraunt that went non-smoking before the bans started. It wasn't bcause there weren't people who wanted non-smoking places but because business knew that people wouldn't stop going out completely and workers couldn't give up every resteraunt job because there were no other non-smoking ones to go to. So non-smokers suffered from a complete lack of alternatives. And it's not just something that is annoying, it causes actual health problems to those subjected to it for prolonged periods of time.

It's the same reason we enact laws governing emissions standards, limits on harmful chemicals in our food, etc. Sometimes the government does need to step in to protect its citizens from unnecessary harm by others. It would be nice if free market economics had taken care of that for us, but, unfortunately, it failed to do so and at some point governments decided to step in and correct that failing.

It hasn't hapoened everywhere yet...exercise your rights and move to a different state if you don't like it.
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I personally like playing in league and coming home without the stench. But, Nicotine is NOT meth or crack. Wait til the government gets ahold of the entire health care system, and everything consumed is scrutinized (you know what kind of strain obesity puts on health care costs). I mean it will still fall under the "for the good of all" argument. If smoking is so bad, make it illegal.....oh wait, too much $$$ is made from taxes to ban the substance itself. It's all laughable.
Screw personal liberties unless you are willing to pay us huge amounts of cash to have them.
 
Saturated Fats said:
I just left Ohio where smoking has been banned since 2006. I'm now in Florida where smoking is still allowed in bars (which of course includes pool rooms).

In 1965, the percentage of US adults that smoked was about 42%. By 2012, it had come down to about 18%:

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer...about-smoking-tobacco-and-health-how-many-use

That means that today about 4 out of 5 people do not smoke and presumably don't want to be in businesses where smoke is prevalent. So are we at the point where smoke is keeping more people out of pool rooms than if smoking is banned?

If 18% is still not low enough, at what point is it bad business to allow smoking in pool rooms?
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The smoking ban in Ohio singlehandedly killed most of the poolrooms and many
bars and restaurants in Ohio, as happened in most of the states that have bans.

KJ has once again smacked the old nail squarely upon the head - poolplayers want
to smoke while they play pool.

Making your biz more inclusive is all well and good in theory - but there is a wise
old saying(said by wise old people) about not throwing the baby out with the
bathwater - ignore it at your peril.

Dale
 
Thats strange??

pdcue said:
The smoking ban in Ohio singlehandedly killed most of the poolrooms and many
bars and restaurants in Ohio, as happened in most of the states that have bans.

KJ has once again smacked the old nail squarely upon the head - poolplayers want
to smoke while they play pool.

Making your biz more inclusive is all well and good in theory - but there is a wise
old saying(said by wise old people) about not throwing the baby out with the
bathwater - ignore it at your peril.

Dale
Click to expand...

Not being able to smoke killed that Pool Halls in Ohio? What about high unemployment, a depressed economy, a declining population in Ohio and all the other things that effect Pool.

Pool is doing well in California, New York and Texas.., better economy's, population growth and no smoking.
 
Yep!

slide13 said:
Sure, as long as he/she is not breaking any laws. But laws have been enacted to protect people. Should a business owner be able to open an establishment to sell crack and meth because there are customer who would like such an establishment? No, because doing so is illegal. Smoking in public establishments is illegal in many places as well.

Now, if your asking if I beleive such laws are appropriate, then yes I do. You can say that the free market should take care of such things, but this didn't really work. When smoking was legal I didn't know a single restraunt that went non-smoking before the bans started. It wasn't bcause there weren't people who wanted non-smoking places but because business knew that people wouldn't stop going out completely and workers couldn't give up every resteraunt job because there were no other non-smoking ones to go to. So non-smokers suffered from a complete lack of alternatives. And it's not just something that is annoying, it causes actual health problems to those subjected to it for prolonged periods of time.

It's the same reason we enact laws governing emissions standards, limits on harmful chemicals in our food, etc. Sometimes the government does need to step in to protect its citizens from unnecessary harm by others. It would be nice if free market economics had taken care of that for us, but, unfortunately, it failed to do so and at some point governments decided to step in and correct that failing.

It hasn't hapoened everywhere yet...exercise your rights and move to a different state if you don't like it.
Click to expand...

Well said, Thanks.
 
ceebee said:
I fully recognize that smoking is a personal choice. I only smoke casually, when I play Pool. I learned to play Pool in the years between 1958 & 1974. Then I quit playing Pool & subsequently quit smoking. When I started playing Pool again in 2000, I also bought a pack of Camels.

I live in the Tulsa area & we have some good Pool Rooms. One of the upscale rooms went away because of a Smoking Ban & then finally suffered bankruptcy.

Anecdote; when the Casino Frenzy began, the action players went away & they too went bankrupt.

In the State of Kansas, you can't smoke in a public area, except in the casinos, which the State owns. Go figure. The government always rule in it's favor, when money is involved.

Smoking & No Smoking will never find a compromise (see exception below), so one faction will have their way. I'm afraid that in a democratic society, the Non-Smokers will rule the roost.

The Exception we have in some Pool Rooms is a glassed-in separate room (highly ventilated to the outside atmosphere). That works for me & the Pool Room has lots of business. So I'll do my smoking outside, in a room or not at all.

We are a country that was founded on personal freedom, but no personal freedom should be allowed when in it treads on another, in such a way as to cause harm. Note, a compromise is available for the Smoker... go outside.

If we had no lobbyists & Congress wasn't a coward, this situation would have been settled. But since Congress is a coward & Lobbyists get their way, because they are selling money, you & I are not considered when it comes to making laws are setting policy.
Click to expand...

The same old tired "it's the governments fault" misinformation. Please, do a little research.
In most, if not all the states that have bans the g'vmnt had nothing to do with it.

There is a well organized, and highly capable effort that has been able to get
smoking bans on the ballot as issues to be voted on. This is truly democracy in
action - decided by the voters. Unfortunately, pool suffered.

Do you really think state governments are happy about all that tax revenue they
lost due to lost business?

Dale
 
What does it mean?

CocoboloCowboy said:
Arizona put in a smoking ban a few years back. It was punt in about the same time the recession hit. The combination of the two events killed off many Pool Rooms, Bars with Pool Tables, and Sports Bars with Pool Tables in the Phoenix Metro Area.

Would guess about 50-100 places that were in business, are no longer in business.
Click to expand...

So where did the smoking Pool players go? Did they stop playing because they cant smoke?
 
pdcue said:
The smoking ban in Ohio singlehandedly killed most of the poolrooms and many
bars and restaurants in Ohio, as happened in most of the states that have bans.

KJ has once again smacked the old nail squarely upon the head - poolplayers want
to smoke while they play pool.

Making your biz more inclusive is all well and good in theory - but there is a wise
old saying(said by wise old people) about not throwing the baby out with the
bathwater - ignore it at your peril.

Dale
Click to expand...

The place I play in went smoke free about a year ago, the place is packed most of the time.
 
I guess it depends on the business you want, and the business you want to build in the future. Personally, I can't stand smoke, but I play pool and have to deal with it. I would love to take my son, daughter and wife to play as well, but the smoke prevents it. Therefor, while our local pool hall will get my business, it will never get the business from anyone else in my family, and likely my son and/or daughter will never get into pool.

At some point smoking will be gone, and pool hall owners will not miss it.

As far as smokers *****ing about being treated like second-class citizens, I would personally NEVER engage in an activity that directly impacts those around me like smoking does.

-Dave
 
King T said:
Not being able to smoke killed that Pool Halls in Ohio? What about high unemployment, a depressed economy, a declining population in Ohio and all the other things that effect Pool.

Pool is doing well in California, New York and Texas.., better economy's, population growth and no smoking.
Click to expand...

Absolutely! And, once again, not just pool halls, and not just in Ohio. Businesses that
had thrived for decades folded in months. Do you suppose it was a coincidence, or
perhaps a conspiracy?

BTW - your aversion for facts is showing - how can you have a connection to the
internet and think the population of Ohio is declining...

Have you heard about Google?

Dale
 
pdcue said:
The same old tired "it's the governments fault" misinformation. Please, do a little research.
In most, if not all the states that have bans the g'vmnt had nothing to do with it.

There is a well organized, and highly capable effort that has been able to get
smoking bans on the ballot as issues to be voted on. This is truly democracy in
action - decided by the voters. Unfortunately, pool suffered.

Do you really think state governments are happy about all that tax revenue they
lost due to lost business?

Dale
Click to expand...

in ILs case it is the government....they cannot see through many examples that lower taxes (personal and business), business fees, regulations, red tape, etc. actually leads to HIGHER state revenue. As for the smoking ban....I wouldn't blame that alone on business failure, but one of many government related contributors (including previously mentioned things like businesses and population leaving for more desirable locales). Just as I believe that IL being the LAST state in the union not to pass concealed carry laws just may have something to do with Chicago's insane amount gun related crimes, but that's for another thread.
 
Manoman2444 said:
The place I play in went smoke free about a year ago, the place is packed most of the time.
Click to expand...

the place I play went smoke free in 2007, and is rarely packed, and usually dead. Have some of your guys come over to Peoria to play....lol

doubt it's smoking related at all, but had to respond to ya. Again, non-smoking vs. smoking isn't the issue for me, just don't like that one can be banned.

I worked with a guy who I told couldn't smoke in my truck when we went to lunch, he said fine, but if he drove I HAD to smoke in his, lol. Smart, saved him gas money as I always drove to lunch.
 
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I understand, It's someone's own right as a smoker to slowly kill themselves. How is ok that they are also slowly killing everybody else around them..........and without any conscience????? I'll never understand that.
 
Strange...,

pdcue said:
Absolutely! And, once again, not just pool halls, and not just in Ohio. Businesses that
had thrived for decades folded in months. Do you suppose it was a coincidence, or
perhaps a conspiracy?

BTW - your aversion for facts is showing - how can you have a connection to the
internet and think the population of Ohio is declining...

Have you heard about Google?

Dale
Click to expand...

Come visit Cleveland/Akron/Canton/Youngstown we have had many new neighbors.
 
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