Touching the ONE-BALL in a 9-Ball Rack Creates an ADVANTAGE - Is This "Cheating" ?
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
If 99% of the players think making sure only the front 3 are touching, then 99% of the players are not very well informed. Saying lots or the majority of people think a certain thing doesn't make that thing right. More often it just points out that there are a LOT of people out there that think they know something that they don't know.
KMRUNOUT
You mean this thing?
http://www.ozonebilliards.com/sardorackm5000.html
They have one at the local academy along with most other types of racks just to play with and it's a little crazy. It does make a tight rack though and other than touching a ball after the rack is lifted I'm not sure how you'd cheat that.
Years ago, players used to manipulate the rack. In order to get the "L Train", they used to spin the last ball and one of the balls in the second to last row. It created the gap if you let them rack their own. NOBODY ever racked their own.
Another way was to let go of the balls and then come back down on them like you were tightening them up. After a few lunges, the L gap appeared. You had to watch for this in ring 9 ball games when "buddies" tried to double team you.
I just never let anybody rack for themselves and always gave my opponent the tightest rack I could. I never understood where this rack your own came into existence. Or the people that would consider using racking to beat you.
Best,
Mike
Another way was to let go of the balls and then come back down on them like you were tightening them up. After a few lunges, the L gap appeared. You had to watch for this in ring 9 ball games when "buddies" tried to double team you.
I just never let anybody rack for themselves and always gave my opponent the tightest rack I could. I never understood where this rack your own came into existence. Or the people that would consider using racking to beat you.
Best,
Mike
You mean this thing?
http://www.ozonebilliards.com/sardorackm5000.html
They have one at the local academy along with most other types of racks just to play with and it's a little crazy. It does make a tight rack though and other than touching a ball after the rack is lifted I'm not sure how you'd cheat that.
Yeah, that's it, Sardo.
Neil,
wow...
ok first of all you did *not* prove that. You didn't *show* your posting history. You made a claim without any proof at all.
Second, here it the big difference between you and I, and why you have trouble here. CJ did *NOT* call me a cheater. He said if someone is fiddling with the one ball, they are up to no good. That is his opinion. Yes I could infer an insult out of it, but I'm not like that. To me it seems like I would need significantly more insecurity and defensiveness to read it that way. But that's just how it works for me. Perhaps your compulsions are coming from a different place. I don't know how it works for you.
I also think that the point here is that CJ started this thread with the intention of spreading some great info from Joe Tucker. He wasn't targeting anyone or calling anyone anything. He was just stating his opinion and observations, while sharing *someone else's* product that he found helpful.
I bet that if CJ and I played a gambling set, he would have no problems with my racking. I've had people ask me not to touch the one ball. I just say "ok, but its gonna take a LOT longer to get a frozen rack". As long as CJ is ok with that, then we wouldn't have any issues.
If I were you, I would just ask myself before I hit send "does this sound defensive"? It's hard to take a 3rd person perspective with yourself. Very hard. Most can't. But like I said before, you might just not care about how you come across to others.
Sorry man, hope things work out for you,
KMRUNOUT
Years ago, players used to manipulate the rack. In order to get the "L Train", they used to spin the last ball and one of the balls in the second to last row. It created the gap if you let them rack their own. NOBODY ever racked their own.
Another way was to let go of the balls and then come back down on them like you were tightening them up. After a few lunges, the L gap appeared. You had to watch for this in ring 9 ball games when "buddies" tried to double team you.
I just never let anybody rack for themselves and always gave my opponent the tightest rack I could. I never understood where this rack your own came into existence. Or the people that would consider using racking to beat you.
Best,
Mike
Hi MIke,
Your last sentence is what gets me too. How does one take anything good from winning by playing loose with the spirit of the rules or the spirit of a a fair competition.
I guess some figure if they're going to do it to me I'm going to do it to them.
They just don't seem to see that they are hurting themselves far worse than the other guy ever could.
Best 2 Y'a,
Rick
I wasn't implying that at all. It was sarcasm. I don't think he has any problems racking. I'm not sure what was going on in that match yesterday.
I've stated this in other threads but I only started about a year ago. Prior to that I had no involvement in pool whatsoever. The "True Beginner" under my user name is absolutely accurate. I'm careful to point out when I am unsure of something or simply stating my opinion. I am also not shy about stating my opinion.
Pros didn't like it for several reasons. It's large and bulky, it accomplishes the same thing as tapping each ball in place which puts little divots in the cloth, it can't easily be carried around or stored, it gives a tight rack every time, it takes a few seconds to line up properly to ensure it is squared to the table.
Years ago, players used to manipulate the rack. In order to get the "L Train", they used to spin the last ball and one of the balls in the second to last row. It created the gap if you let them rack their own. NOBODY ever racked their own.
Another way was to let go of the balls and then come back down on them like you were tightening them up. After a few lunges, the L gap appeared. You had to watch for this in ring 9 ball games when "buddies" tried to double team you.
I just never let anybody rack for themselves and always gave my opponent the tightest rack I could. I never understood where this rack your own came into existence. Or the people that would consider using racking to beat you.
Best,
Mike
The way you describe this does not match at all with what Joe describes in his DVD. The L isn't a gap. It is four balls in the rack that must be frozen. The 4 balls make an L pattern. Sounds like you are talking about something else.
KMRUNOUT
I am now realizing every person on the planet has seen this DVD except me.
Hurry up, FedEx. I'm falling behind here!
Joe's the only one (publically) that has done the research and shared the information
Yes, Joe Tucker said, and I agree that we ALL had it wrong, that's me, and everybody else. He is authorized to make this statement, because Joe's the only one (publically) that has done the research and shared the scientific information with all of us in video.
When the balls are racked the game is in the starting position. Touching the one-ball at that point is no different before or after the break. If the one lands on a bug, you can ask your opponent to move the ball and/or the bug - when a player moves the one-ball without asking it's a foul.
How can this be argued, and why would anyone want this rule to not be in place?
Yes, Joe Tucker said, and I agree that we ALL had it wrong, that's me, and everybody else. He is authorized to make this statement, because Joe's the only one (publically) that has done the research and shared the scientific information with all of us in video.
When the balls are racked the game is in the starting position. Touching the one-ball at that point is no different before or after the break. If the one lands on a bug, you can ask your opponent to move the ball and/or the bug - when a player moves the one-ball without asking it's a foul.
How can this be argued, and why would anyone want this rule to not be in place?
According to Joe, the "L Train" can't exist if there's a gap
According to Joe, the "L Train" can't exist if there's a gap. If there is a gap where the "L Train" (should be) you break from the same side as the gap. There is one exception, and I'll keep that one for Joe to explain.
The "L Train" can be somewhat confusing, I didn't pick up on exactly what it was when I first watched the video. When I started competing more, I had second thoughts and decided to call Joe himself.
He answered promptly and explained, in detail, so I was finally clear. Then he told me how to see it for myself with the help of a piece of cardboard (to create whatever gap I wanted to test) and I did. At the end I gave him my address and he sent me both DVDs, and didn't charge me a dime. I appreciate him doing that, wouldn't you guys?
The results were not what I expected and Joe was right about everything he recommended. There's no reason for more research, now I know what to look for - I personally would prefer that no one was allowed to look at the rack, it's like seeing the top card playing poker. It's a no win situation, the racking/breaking must be changed.
According to Joe, the "L Train" can't exist if there's a gap. If there is a gap where the "L Train" (should be) you break from the same side as the gap. There is one exception, and I'll keep that one for Joe to explain.
The "L Train" can be somewhat confusing, I didn't pick up on exactly what it was when I first watched the video. When I started competing more, I had second thoughts and decided to call Joe himself.
He answered promptly and explained, in detail, so I was finally clear. Then he told me how to see it for myself with the help of a piece of cardboard (to create whatever gap I wanted to test) and I did. At the end I gave him my address and he sent me both DVDs, and didn't charge me a dime. I appreciate him doing that, wouldn't you guys?
The results were not what I expected and Joe was right about everything he recommended. There's no reason for more research, now I know what to look for - I personally would prefer that no one was allowed to look at the rack, it's like seeing the top card playing poker. It's a no win situation, the racking/breaking must be changed.