Need Help with a Game

[tonythetiger583]

So I haven't tried it yet, but I'm trying to develop a version of 8-ball I can play with my league partner. We're in the lower division, and I've been playing pool for a little over a year now. I'm at the level where I will usually get 1+ ERO a night, and about 3 failed ERO's. I just want a game that helps desensitize and remove the nervousness of an ERO situation when it does come up. It's more of an exercise that I can play with my league partner that is in the spirit of trying to get better, and less about competition.

It follows regular eight-ball rules with winner breaks, and 3-ball foul.

Starting the game:
Winner of the lag, breaks.

If a break is terrible (because of miscue, or lousy rack etc.) and both of us acknowledge it is terrible, the breaker gets to re-break. It's really about creating the most ideal situations for a run-out.

After the break, regardless of whether the breaker makes a ball or not, they now have the choice to "Solve Problems". They can either leave the object balls where they are, or move any problem balls to anywhere else on the table, so long as there is a half-diamond space away from any other ball. They can also either leave the cue ball where it is, or move it behind the head-string.

If the person scratches on the break, his opponent comes to the table and has the same options, with the ball on the head-string (without a movement penalty on the cue ball)

Point system:

6 points for a Pure RO:
An RO where nothing is moved off the break. If opponent comes to the table after a scratch on the break, they can still go for a Pure RO even though they get the cue-ball anywhere behind the line.

5 points for Runner-Up RO:
If you are the next person after the Initial RO attempt, and manage to RO. You can also Solve Problems (Object-Ball and/or Cue Ball), but would downgrade to a Modified RO
Note: If you scratched on the break, and your opponent fails their Run-out, it will be your second time at the table, and doesn't count as a Runner-Up

4 points for a Modified RO:
Clearing the table off the break but having Solved Problems (Object Ball and/or Cue ball).

3 points for 3-Foul Rule:
If you win via 3-ball foul.

1 point for a Multiple Innings Win:
A win where both players get to shoot multiple times.

Special Note: points are not cumulative, so if your opponent scratches on the 8-ball on their 3rd foul, you would get the highest singular category of points (this example, you would get 3 points)

Race to some number and you must win by that exact number, other than an RO (Pure, Runner-Up, or Modified)


I haven't tried any of this yet and it's all just theory. Would really like some input. Again, this is just an idea to make ERO's less scary.

 

[3andstop]

Again, this is just an idea to make ERO's less scary.

I'm not sure what EROs are, I'm guessing the R&O mean run out.

It is my opinion, the scary part comes from an unfamiliar or unsure stance, pre shot routine, and/or knowledge of the game, muscle memory, things like that. The only cure there is more knowledge and practice time.

When a baseball player comes to bat, in the on deck circle he swings 2 bats, or a weighted bat to make his batting feel better.

You like 8 ball, your "on deck" game needs to be straight pool. Get used to running a rack or two or three, in straight pool, and run out 8 ball will never be scary again.

 

[bdorman]

What's an ERO?

Your game seems like an awfully complicated solution to a simple problem.

I suggest you and your partner spend time practicing specific situations that keep you from running out. (2-person practice is very efficient because one person can focus on shooting while the other sets up the shots; the shooter can practice nearly non-stop and develop real muscle memory).

If your problem is breaking up clusters, put a cluster on the table (two balls near a rail is pretty common) and take BIH for both an OB and the CB and see if you can break up the cluster. Keep practicing that same break-up until you can do it in your sleep. (What's the difference between a Pro's practice and an Amateur's practice? When an amateur misses a shot he shoots it until he makes it. A Pro practices the shot until he can't miss it.

 

[krupa]

Another 8-ball drill:

Roll out all stripes (or solids) and the 8-ball. Starting with the 8-ball,work backwards and plan your run-out. Take cue ball in hand and execute your plan. If you miss a shot or get bad position set it up a few times until you get it right a few times and move on. When that becomes easy, add traffic by throwing out all the stripes and a couple solids, etc.

I'm not an instructor and I'm not very good so take this as you want, but I'm not a fan of the "pros practice until they don't miss" approach to pool. Pool is a past-time/hobby and you need to enjoy it or you will stop. For most people, fixating on one shot for long periods of time just isn't fun. Or, to put it another way, your personal goals and motivation will dictate how much you practice an individual shot and you shouldn't really care what the "pros" or anyone else does.

 

[tonythetiger583]

What's an ERO?

Your game seems like an awfully complicated solution to a simple problem.

I suggest you and your partner spend time practicing specific situations that keep you from running out. (2-person practice is very efficient because one person can focus on shooting while the other sets up the shots; the shooter can practice nearly non-stop and develop real muscle memory).

If your problem is breaking up clusters, put a cluster on the table (two balls near a rail is pretty common) and take BIH for both an OB and the CB and see if you can break up the cluster. Keep practicing that same break-up until you can do it in your sleep. (What's the difference between a Pro's practice and an Amateur's practice? When an amateur misses a shot he shoots it until he makes it. A Pro practices the shot until he can't miss it.

An ERO is an eight ball runout. And the problem isn't really any one specific shot, or breaking out clusters. I feel like the problem is that I just don't have enough runouts under my belt to make a runout situation feel common. When the situation comes up, I get nervous because it's special. I want a game that makes it become less special to remove the stigma. I just feel like this is one of the hurdles that separates good players from bad players. There just seems like such a huge gap between a player who can run 6-7 balls, and a person who can run 8 balls. I don't think it's about shot selection or shot knowledge exactly. I think a person who can run 6-7 balls has that to a degree. Maybe I'm the only one having this problem, but I think it's more a mental issue if anything.

 

[tonythetiger583]

Another 8-ball drill:

Roll out all stripes (or solids) and the 8-ball. Starting with the 8-ball,work backwards and plan your run-out. Take cue ball in hand and execute your plan. If you miss a shot or get bad position set it up a few times until you get it right a few times and move on. When that becomes easy, add traffic by throwing out all the stripes and a couple solids, etc.

I'm not an instructor and I'm not very good so take this as you want, but I'm not a fan of the "pros practice until they don't miss" approach to pool. Pool is a past-time/hobby and you need to enjoy it or you will stop. For most people, fixating on one shot for long periods of time just isn't fun. Or, to put it another way, your personal goals and motivation will dictate how much you practice an individual shot and you shouldn't really care what the "pros" or anyone else does.

This is the drill I normally practice. I understand the value of this drill and this is my go-to drill. I just need something that adds a little more game-type-pressure.

 

[tonythetiger583]

I'm not sure what EROs are, I'm guessing the R&O mean run out.

It is my opinion, the scary part comes from an unfamiliar or unsure stance, pre shot routine, and/or knowledge of the game, muscle memory, things like that. The only cure there is more knowledge and practice time.

When a baseball player comes to bat, in the on deck circle he swings 2 bats, or a weighted bat to make his batting feel better.

You like 8 ball, your "on deck" game needs to be straight pool. Get used to running a rack or two or three, in straight pool, and run out 8 ball will never be scary again.

I think I really need to give straight pool another go, last time I tried it, I didn't have the knowledge to play position well enough to chain racks together. It was kind of a horrible experience. Plus bar box league equipment isn't the most reliable for a game where every shot is a potential loss. But I will give it another go.

 

[3andstop]

I think I really need to give straight pool another go, last time I tried it, I didn't have the knowledge to play position well enough to chain racks together. It was kind of a horrible experience. Plus bar box league equipment isn't the most reliable for a game where every shot is a potential loss. But I will give it another go.

Listen, if you have to swim 4 laps in competition, you practice swimming 8.

If you have to run 5 miles, you practice running 10.

If you need to lift 200 lbs to win a competition, you practice with 225 lbs.

Even if you had to practice holding your breath for 1 minute, you'd be practicing how to hold it for longer.

My point is ... if you have to run 8 balls in the game you enjoy, don't think you'll feel comfortable doing it by merely practicing to the goal of 8 balls. Practice running multiple racks so that when you get to those 8 ball run outs, they are much easier.

The only draw back is when you are running those multiple racks, 8 ball will become boring to you. :thumbup:

 

[nine_ball6970]

An ERO is an eight ball runout. And the problem isn't really any one specific shot, or breaking out clusters. I feel like the problem is that I just don't have enough runouts under my belt to make a runout situation feel common. When the situation comes up, I get nervous because it's special. I want a game that makes it become less special to remove the stigma. I just feel like this is one of the hurdles that separates good players from bad players. There just seems like such a huge gap between a player who can run 6-7 balls, and a person who can run 8 balls. I don't think it's about shot selection or shot knowledge exactly. I think a person who can run 6-7 balls has that to a degree. Maybe I'm the only one having this problem, but I think it's more a mental issue if anything.

Focus on one ball at a time until they are all gone. The problem starts when you are looking into the future when there are still 6 balls left. The fact that it is a run out situation shouldn't even cross your mind. Try to view each shot as an independent event.

 

[rocket23]

your problem is leave,imo, the cb needs to stay on the ''right'' side of the ob(s). by not doing this you will continually block yourself from completeing the task at hand ero......I chose a smpler plan that works a good% of the time....3 ball run an hide......put the cb in a safe place w/out calling a safety.....it's an art in itself.

 

[hang-the-9]

An ERO is an eight ball runout. And the problem isn't really any one specific shot, or breaking out clusters. I feel like the problem is that I just don't have enough runouts under my belt to make a runout situation feel common. When the situation comes up, I get nervous because it's special. I want a game that makes it become less special to remove the stigma. I just feel like this is one of the hurdles that separates good players from bad players. There just seems like such a huge gap between a player who can run 6-7 balls, and a person who can run 8 balls. I don't think it's about shot selection or shot knowledge exactly. I think a person who can run 6-7 balls has that to a degree. Maybe I'm the only one having this problem, but I think it's more a mental issue if anything.

Only way to get better at running out is playing more, in tournaments and leagues. You can learn to be a shot maker at home or with friends, then go up against a guy you don't know and miss everything.

You said you've been playing pool for a year or so, that is nothing really. There are guys on here that play for 40 years and still can't run our racks all the time or have a shot where they go totally breain dead on. I played for over 20 years and am lucky if I get a couple of break and run outs in a tournament or a set to 5 or 7. My son has been playing since he was 8, he's 15 now, that is 7 years of not just playing but having good players show him how to play, he can barely run out a rack during a tournament and often messes up right at the end.

Play more, if you can't for the life of you run a rack after a few more years, then you need help.

From the way you talk about the game and use terms like ERO you need to play with better players and in better pool rooms and not make up new games. Although there is nothing wrong with playing whatever you want for practice. Just don't think it will make you a better player in competition.

Basically what you are doing is playing the ghost with some modifications, which is you break, take ball in hand or not, and try to run out. If you miss, "the ghost" wins. See how many games you can get, and track how many balls on average you run out and why. If you miss a tough shot, the reason is often bad position as much as a miss. If you miss a shot but the cueball was about where you want it to be, that's a miss. You can play ghost with 8 ball, full rack of 9 ball, short rack of 7 ball, 6 ball, heck even 3 ball. You can also play 8 ball but with the last row removed. A short 8 ball rack like that will leave you with a lot less clusters and problem balls to deal with and it's not such a complex thing like you put together.

Rack 10 balls, for 8 ball, break, take ball in hand or not, and run out. If you don't, make a note of how many balls you made, and why you could not continue, try again 1,000 times. At the end you should have a lot more wins vs the ghost and a lot less mistakes with a much higher average ball run.

Try to see how you do with 9 ball to gauge where your skill is at, break take ball in hand and try to run out, do that 10 racks. If you run 2-3 balls over 10 racks on average and done, that is a D/C player so don't expect to run out 8 ball racks. If you can do 5-6, that is about a B and you should be able to run an 8 ball rack here and there.

 

[galipeau]

ERO's are great and all, but I usually enjoy BLT's more. LOL, this thread makes me think OMG. I'm glad the FCC aren't in on this thread or else they would tell me to GTFO. I hope the NSA isn't listening...

 

[PoolBoy1]

I'm not sure what EROs are, I'm guessing the R&O mean run out.

It is my opinion, the scary part comes from an unfamiliar or unsure stance, pre shot routine, and/or knowledge of the game, muscle memory, things like that. The only cure there is more knowledge and practice time.

When a baseball player comes to bat, in the on deck circle he swings 2 bats, or a weighted bat to make his batting feel better.

You like 8 ball, your "on deck" game needs to be straight pool. Get used to running a rack or two or three, in straight pool, and run out 8 ball will never be scary again.

Above is very good advice. The stance must be understood. Plenty of good articles on it. Place 15 balls on table and spread em good. Take ball in hand and run em using english only when needed, sliding the ball and angles, stay on correct side of shot for next. Once you get that down your mind will open to any game. 8 ball, 10 ball and the likes require some luck. But straight pool does not. So take losses in other games in stride.

 

[PoolBoy1]

I think I really need to give straight pool another go, last time I tried it, I didn't have the knowledge to play position well enough to chain racks together. It was kind of a horrible experience. Plus bar box league equipment isn't the most reliable for a game where every shot is a potential loss. But I will give it another go.

Straight pool the best test of ability. Why? It is pure talent no luck whatsoever. Would never make it on tv though for obvious reasons. Much more relaxing than the bang em break games. From the opening break/safe it's all strategy. The Chess Game of pool.

 

[rocket23]

Above is very good advice. The stance must be understood. Plenty of good articles on it. Place 15 balls on table and spread em good. Take ball in hand and run em using english only when needed, sliding the ball and angles, stay on correct side of shot for next. Once you get that down your mind will open to any game. 8 ball, 10 ball and the likes require some luck. But straight pool does not. So take losses in other games in stride.

I can totally relate......i lost a few to a lower handicapped ringer.....it happens. I actually did the guy a favor keeping the game tight. Oh well.

 

[renard]

When playing 8ball with your beginner opponents try this. Whatever group you are determined to run you have to run them in numerical order. Your opponent does not. If you have no shot there is no penalty for making a good hit on your group. Have fun.

 

[Donny Lutz]

carom bank 8-ball

So I haven't tried it yet, but I'm trying to develop a version of 8-ball I can play with my league partner. We're in the lower division, and I've been playing pool for a little over a year now. I'm at the level where I will usually get 1+ ERO a night, and about 3 failed ERO's. I just want a game that helps desensitize and remove the nervousness of an ERO situation when it does come up. It's more of an exercise that I can play with my league partner that is in the spirit of trying to get better, and less about competition.

It follows regular eight-ball rules with winner breaks, and 3-ball foul.

Starting the game:
Winner of the lag, breaks.

If a break is terrible (because of miscue, or lousy rack etc.) and both of us acknowledge it is terrible, the breaker gets to re-break. It's really about creating the most ideal situations for a run-out.

After the break, regardless of whether the breaker makes a ball or not, they now have the choice to "Solve Problems". They can either leave the object balls where they are, or move any problem balls to anywhere else on the table, so long as there is a half-diamond space away from any other ball. They can also either leave the cue ball where it is, or move it behind the head-string.

If the person scratches on the break, his opponent comes to the table and has the same options, with the ball on the head-string (without a movement penalty on the cue ball)

Point system:

6 points for a Pure RO:
An RO where nothing is moved off the break. If opponent comes to the table after a scratch on the break, they can still go for a Pure RO even though they get the cue-ball anywhere behind the line.

5 points for Runner-Up RO:
If you are the next person after the Initial RO attempt, and manage to RO. You can also Solve Problems (Object-Ball and/or Cue Ball), but would downgrade to a Modified RO
Note: If you scratched on the break, and your opponent fails their Run-out, it will be your second time at the table, and doesn't count as a Runner-Up

4 points for a Modified RO:
Clearing the table off the break but having Solved Problems (Object Ball and/or Cue ball).

3 points for 3-Foul Rule:
If you win via 3-ball foul.

1 point for a Multiple Innings Win:
A win where both players get to shoot multiple times.

Special Note: points are not cumulative, so if your opponent scratches on the 8-ball on their 3rd foul, you would get the highest singular category of points (this example, you would get 3 points)

Race to some number and you must win by that exact number, other than an RO (Pure, Runner-Up, or Modified)


I haven't tried any of this yet and it's all just theory. Would really like some input. Again, this is just an idea to make ERO's less scary.

May I suggest a game that is very simple and great for improving cue ball control?

It's called "Carom Bank 8-Ball" and is guaranteed to improve cue ball control for most players. And it's even simpler than standard 8-ball!

You can see the rules on my website:


Clink on "Instruction" and scroll to the bottom of the page.

 

[Straightpool_99]

Listen, if you have to swim 4 laps in competition, you practice swimming 8.

If you have to run 5 miles, you practice running 10.

If you need to lift 200 lbs to win a competition, you practice with 225 lbs.

Even if you had to practice holding your breath for 1 minute, you'd be practicing how to hold it for longer.

My point is ... if you have to run 8 balls in the game you enjoy, don't think you'll feel comfortable doing it by merely practicing to the goal of 8 balls. Practice running multiple racks so that when you get to those 8 ball run outs, they are much easier.

The only draw back is when you are running those multiple racks, 8 ball will become boring to you. :thumbup:

I usually agree with you, and I'll never object to straight pool being the best training game, but in this particular case I'd suggest the op do something completely different. I think that too many balls on the table, combined with pressure is "frying his brain" when it comes to competition. The reason is probably poor pattern play/shot selection. With too many balls and clutter on the table it is much harder to see the correct pattern. If that is the case, I'd recommend starting with fewer balls instead of more.

Try "Hurricane 8". Regular 8 ball with four balls each, racked like 9 ball with the 8 ball in the middle. With only 4 balls on the table, it's easier to work your way backwards from the 8 in your mind, and you can play it with a friend. If you want solo excersises there are plenty more. A real simple one is to start with 5 balls (or whatever you can do) and the 8 (put the 8 close to the spot, the others randomly). Give yourself ball in hand and try to finish on the last ball before the 8 with a stop shot or at least as little movement as possible. You should be close to the 8 and pretty straight. That last ball is called the "key ball" and identifying a good key ball is a big part of the game at the top level.

 

[PoolBoy1]

I can totally relate......i lost a few to a lower handicapped ringer.....it happens. I actually did the guy a favor keeping the game tight. Oh well.

From the sweet picture I see I wonder if concentration on pool is adequate enough.