Questions for you custom cue players

Custom cue,s

ChicagoRJ said:
C'mon Mike, that's kinda silly. And yes, just like production cues, custom shafts warp, and probably more often.

The reason is because custom cue makers are all over the board, they go from terrible to Best of the Best...... So, if we took a sampling from all custom makers, the results would NOT be too good.

Plus, lets be honest, for the price of a new shaft, somebody is still thousands ahead of the game if their production shaft warped in a few years... big deal. And lets be honest, the climate and the customer will have more to do with warping than anything else...

So, custom cues warp too, and they dont' all know more about wood than Schmelke or the folks that have been doing it for decades....

For the record, I shoot with a Brunswick Willie Hoppe refinished and an OB shaft... funny, how a 75 year old non custom cue still seems to be going strong over 7 decades later ;)

And I'm on the waiting list for a custom cuemaker, so I'm not a hater, just a realist.
Click to expand...



There is nothing silly about buying a good custom cue that will retain its value for decades.
And there is nothing silly about buying a cue that doesn't fall apart in 6 months.

And there is nothing silly about wanting to conduct your business with one person who knows pool cues instead of some person who was hired to take cue orders over the phone who has never had a interest in the game of pool.
And doesn't know anything about cues.

Pool dawg sold me a cue , it was advertised as having a Irish linen wrap.
when I got the cue it was wrapless.
The person who took my order didn't know the difference.....between a wrap less and a cue that had a Irish linen wrap....................

There is nothing silly about production cues having more problems then a custom cue.
Point blank there are more cheap ass production cues being made then cheap ass custom cues being made.

Mainly because the custom cue makers sign there work and don't want to embarrass them self's by producing something that will fall apart or shoot like shit.
How many custom cues makers do you see putting stickers on their cues ?










.
 
Renegade_56 said:
The personal feel that a player gets from a cue is what determines whether or not he likes the cues, and changing the butt and keeping the same shaft will absolutely affect that feel, just as putting different shafts on the same butt. every combination will be different.

You are kind all over the place in this thread honestly. I can't figure if you are pissed because you lost money flipping cues, tried your hand at making them and couldn't, or couldn't sell them, or maybe you own a retail shop. Do you begrudge cuemakers for making cues for some reason, or just don't have a nice custom so you advise others against buying them,,,,,,,hard as hell to tell really.

OP, just shop around and look at and play with as many cues as you can until you find something you feel good about paying for. It's not a big deel if it hits a little hard or soft for you, a good repairman/cuemaker can dial that in easy enough with a some tip and/or ferrule work. Take your time, there is a lot of good choices out there.
Click to expand...

The problem with text based communications is that people read with their own tone and bias. I'm not pissed at all regarding custom cues. I have owned some great ones, and some not so great ones.

It's the "salesmanship" that is done by people who misrepresent the actual truth that I have the issue with. There is a mystique surrounding the word "custom", yet I'd challenge you that there are very few "custom" cues in existence. They're just cuemakers. This concept of "custom" is quite hilarious. You're buying into someone else's designs. Cognoscenti does his floating points, and you can buy that cue online, in its existence, its current weight, and tip size. How the hell is that a custom cue? Because only Joe made it? So, is custom used for small volume, high price tag cues only? Cuemakers go to the SBE and sell tables full of cues that were manufactured at around 18oz, and they can slide weight into the back end to make them heavier. How is that different than cue brand X? How is that custom? It wasn't made FOR you, or anyone in particular. It may as well be a Schon.....oh, but that's a "production" cue.

I have had some wonderful experiences with cuemakers, and some terrible experiences with others. It's been hit and miss. Are there custom makers I'd still buy from? Absolutely. But I've reached a stage in my life where I have more important things than cues to buy. And having played custom and production, I just settled into production cues, as they have more bang for the buck. Again, I don't consider a cue as an investment. It's like my snowboard. Or motorcycle. They're "fun taxes".

What bothers me is people spreading false ideologies that custom = higher tolerances, and production = cheap slave labour with no pride in workmanship. There are good and bad cuemaking operations. It isn't just the operations that employ 10+ people that produce an inferior product.

Let's say I was to assemble 10 of the best cuemakers together to collaborate on a cue. They were to put their heads together, and divide the work up so that the best person at a particular task would build that cue. They make a work of art, with one person doing the inlays, one person doing the wrap, etc. I'm guessing that cue would then be deemed as "production", right? I mean, 10 people worked on the cue, whereas a true "custom" cue only has one person controlling all of the facets of making the cue.

Any cue purchased for $500+ will be a good cue. Doesn't matter if it's a used custom, a new OB, or a used Schon. Sub $200? Sure, you get what you pay for. Do I think a $200 Viking is as good as a $2k Southwest? The Southwest will look nicer, have a sharper design, and more attention to detail. If they have a similar quality tip, they'll both make balls at about the same rate. "Feel" is subjective. I've hit with a Richard Black that felt like a carrot, and I've played a J&J that was lights out for $79. Do I think J&J makes a better cue than Richard Black? Hell no, aesthetically. But they both serve a function. I'm not for or against production or custom. I actually used to make cues. Didn't give it up for lack of business. I gave it up because I got tired of spending all of my spare time stuck sitting at a lathe. Buy whatever cue you want to buy. But anyone that tries to tell me that a custom cue "plays better" than a production cue is just blowing hot air. I've had my ass whipped by guys playing with Dufferins. I guess they didn't get the memo that I had a custom, and custom cues play better than crap cues. Indian, not arrow.
 
wow, I think any one of a kind cue could be considered custom, since it is in fact a one of a kind.

So maybe Unique should be the term for one of a kind cues, and then custom fit cues could be termed as tailored.
 
Joe Salazar Used Cues

In response to the OP:
Here's the perfect man and you can hit balls before you buy. He's outta TX and goes to big events with MANY cues and brands, he might bring eighty or more to an event. Not sure how far east he goes, I know Olathe KS was one for sure Haunt at one time.
 
Last edited:
Renegade_56 said:
wow, I think any one of a kind cue could be considered custom, since it is in fact a one of a kind.

So maybe Unique should be the term for one of a kind cues, and then custom fit cues could be termed as tailored.
Click to expand...

So, if I buy a Schon, and have a custom maker retaper the shaft, and have it set up perfect....does it become a "tailored cue"? :)

This is the issue I have with the word "custom", with regards to pool cues. It takes on too many different meanings. Just let your name do the talking for you. Josey Cues. Hercek Cues. Black Boar Cues. JossWest Cues. No need for the word "custom". The maker's name and reputation imply quality.

Funny story about 1 of 1 cues. I've seen 5 Dale Perry 1 of 1 cues that were identical. I also know cuemakers that have repeated 1 of 1 designs by changing the wrap, the joint, or the butt cap. Come on.....really??
 
mortuarymike-nv said:
There is nothing silly about buying a good custom cue that will retain its value for decades.
And there is nothing silly about buying a cue that doesn't fall apart in 6 months.

And there is nothing silly about wanting to conduct your business with one person who knows pool cues instead of some person who was hired to take cue orders over the phone who has never had a interest in the game of pool.
And doesn't know anything about cues.

Pool dawg sold me a cue , it was advertised as having a Irish linen wrap.
when I got the cue it was wrapless.
The person who took my order didn't know the difference.....between a wrap less and a cue that had a Irish linen wrap....................

There is nothing silly about production cues having more problems then a custom cue.
Point blank there are more cheap ass production cues being made then cheap ass custom cues being made.

Mainly because the custom cue makers sign there work and don't want to embarrass them self's by producing something that will fall apart or shoot like shit.
How many custom cues makers do you see putting stickers on their cues ?

.
Click to expand...

First, I said it was silly that you could roll 40 custom shafts out and they would all be straight. It would depend on the cue maker.

And not all customer cues will retain it's value. Look at the For Sale threads if you need proof. Just not a true statement, and most folks know that. Yeah, if you buy a custom you might get real lucky and it holds it's value, but for the most part, they don't.

I've been to most of the "custom" shops in the IL area. Some were great shops, they were clean, organized, great equipment and wood properly stored, humidity controlled environments, etc. (Hercek and Prince come to mind),

But then there were the HORROR shops I've been too, and I've mentioned them before, but don't really feel like throwing them under the bus over and over. They could NOT hold Schmelkes jock strap in building a cue, refinishing a cue, or producing anything near the same quality as Schmelke.

So, just like you can't say Japanese and German cars are better than American cars....now, there are a few Japanese cars at the top, a few at the very bottom, and the same goes for German and American, so you can't use the blanket statement anymore that Japanese are better then American cars because today it would be false, now you actually must mention the specific manufacturer....

So yeah, Toyota is better rated in reliability than all American car makers, but ALL Amercian car makers are rated higher than Mitsubishi. Buick is rated higher than Audi and Mercedes, but lower than BMW and Porsche. It's a new world out there.

Same concept for custom cue makers, they cannot and should not be lumped into the same category, nor should companies like OB, Schmelke and Schon be lumped into the same category as crappy cheap production cues made overseas. (disclaimer, there are some companies that make good cues over seas too)

Nobody can say a custom shaft will NOT warp, and a production will, and vice versa. Nobody can say a custom will increase in value, because the "for sale" threads have proved MOST don't, but some do. Just like picking stocks, you better know which ones, because if you're wrong, you lose.

And nobody can say a custom plays better then a production, and vice versa. My Schmelke made any shot that my Carmeli could make, and vice versa.
 
Last edited:
ChicagoRJ, I'm glad you mentioned Schmelke. On page seven Kim Bye list nine valid questions to ask that custom builder. These all pertain to how a cue would play, not look. All of those questions could be answered and a cue made, by Schmelke, for under $200 For a bit more you can get some really nice wood and another couple hundred would buy an fitted OB shaft with a second purpleheart break shaft. How good is that?

The interesting part is how many custom builders don't have the woodworking talent, skills or equipment to make the spliced blanks, so they buy Schmelke's. A little sanding, a ring here or there, and most important, carving the custom logo into the butt. Now you have a real custom???

Please, there are a very few talented builders of cue art, well worth investing in. And then there are the rest. Let's at least be honest and admit that.

BTW, some custom owners here seem to think that others are jealous because they don't own the fancy cue. Not me. I'm happy with what I have and the extra money goes to fast or loud motorcycles.
(Ducati & Harley) It's a question of priority.
 
Maybe This Works To Illustrate The Point....

Custom made cues vs. production cues?Let's admit at the outset the above two terms invariably have different meanings or interpretations to different people......what really defines either? Rather than embark upon another tangent debate, I'll try to best illustrate the difference as I see it using the analogy ......Men's clothes


Look, you can go into the store and buy a $40 dress shirt or a $75 dress shirt or a $100 dress shirt and it would probably look great.....but that shirt would look pale in comparison to a custom made shirt that's made with a linen count you select for the best feel, the collar style you want, a neck size made to fit you, contoured shoulders and tapered to your actual torso dimensions, etc. Well, those shirts typically cost a whole lot more than a prefabricated shirt, that is unless you ordered it from a firm in the Pacific Basin.

However, as a rule, those custom made shirts pretty much look much better and launder better than pre-made shirts already in the store the average man buys.......it's just a flat out fact that's hard to ignore. The same applies with custom made suits made from a bolt of cloth versus suits hanging on a rack in a men's store. When the suit is made to fit your body from a bolt of cloth material you selected from the store's inventory and not just another men's size 44 suit (short, regular or long) that's hanging on a rack in the store that the tailor in the back room alters to fit you.......there's just little comparison in the final fit, quality or of these differently made suits. Custom is better but it costs a lot more which is why most of us don't go that way......Guess what?.....Custom made pool cues aren't any different when you choose a top shelf cue-maker to make your pool cue.

I think the OP needs to test play as many different cue brands as possible and make sure he notes the type of tips on these cues (brand. hardness and shape), the shaft size, taper, shaft weight, cue butt weight and pay attention to the different cue joints and threads as well. Ascertain what you like the best and then see if you can come close finding that in a production cue since you always know you can get a custom cue made exactly the way you prefer the cue to be......then the OP can decide whether the difference in price between a custom made cue versus a production cue is indeed justified and warranted.

Matt B.
 
Last edited:
Bavafongoul said:
Custom made cues vs. production cues?Let's admit at the outset the above two terms invariably have different meanings or interpretations to different people......what really defines either? Rather than embark upon another tangent debate, I'll try to best illustrate the difference as I see it using the analogy ......Men's clothes


Look, you can go into the store and buy a $40 dress shirt or a $75 dress shirt or a $100 dress shirt and it would probably look great.....but that shirt would look pale in comparison to a custom made shirt that's made with a linen count you select for the best feel, the collar style you want, a neck size made to fit you, contoured shoulders and tapered to your actual torso dimensions, etc. Well, those shirts typically cost a whole lot more than a prefabricated shirt, that is unless you ordered it from a firm in the Pacific Basin.

However, as a rule, those custom made shirts pretty much look much better and launder better than pre-made shirts already in the store the average man buys.......it's just a flat out fact that's hard to ignore. The same applies with custom made suits made from a bolt of cloth versus suits hanging on a rack in a men's store. When the suit is made to fit your body from a bolt of cloth material you selected from the store's inventory and not just another men's size 44 suit (short, regular or long) that's hanging on a rack in the store that the tailor in the back room alters to fit you.......there's just little comparison in the final fit, quality or of these differently made suits. Custom is better but it costs a lot more which is why most of us don't go that way......Guess what?.....Custom made pool cues aren't any different when you choose a top shelf cue-maker to make your pool cue.

I think the OP needs to test play as many different cue brands as possible and make sure he notes the type of tips on these cues (brand. hardness and shape), the shaft size, taper, shaft weight, cue butt weight and pay attention to the different cue joints and threads as well. Ascertain what you like the best and then see if you can come close finding that in a production cue since you always know you can get a custom cue made exactly the way you prefer the cue to be......then the OP can decide whether the difference in price between a custom made cue versus a production cue is indeed justified and warranted.

Matt B.
Click to expand...

I LOVE when people use this argument. It's like the car comparison. Or the golf club comparison. The reason a custom suit is better than off the rack, is due to you actually being MEASURED for the suit. Most people aren't symmetrical. One arm is slightly longer, legs, etc. The tailor will take all of your measurements. He will make a dress shirt for you, and YES, it will look better than anything out the bag from most menswear stores.

Here's where the custom cue comparison falls flat on its face. Cuemakers aren't measuring you. They aren't making suggestions based on watching your playing style, or making suggestions on the proper weight or length of cue for you. You make a call to cuemaker X and say "hey, I want a 4 point ebony into birdseye maple, stainless steel joint, 2 shafts, ivory ferrules, Moori tips, black leather wrap. Weighs 20oz, white delrin butt cap. 13mm tips on both shafts. Shaft weights of 4 oz."

Does the cuemaker say "hmm, what game are you playing? Do you have trouble moving the cueball? Perhaps a thinner taper on the shaft. and we go with a softer tip....". Nope. This doesn't happen. Most often, a guy gets a massive cue boner after playing with someone's custom cue, or hears a rave review of how some guy's cues play. He places an order for his specs, and gets a cue. Just the simple stuff like weights, woods, tips, shaft diameter, etc. You can set these exact same specifics, or "tailor-ables" from any cuemaker, "custom" or production.

In the dress shirt scenario, all you've done is called the tailor, and ask him to make you the packaged shirt you'd buy from DKNY or Michael Kors, with the measurements listed on the label. And you've paid him twice as much to make the same shirt.

A custom suit takes about 15 minutes to be measured for, and about 20 to discuss cuts, fabrics, cuff types, etc. I have yet to have one custom cuemaker sit me down and discuss the nuances of a thermoset plastic ferrule versus an LBM ferrule. Usually, their cues are sought after because of their hit and formula. Few deviate from construction techniques, the vast majority have their "style", and they're just filling orders based on what the customer wants the cue to look like. Everything else is just tailoring after it's made. Hey....that sound just like a production cue company, but with a 12 month to 5 year wait for your cue.

Oh, and I'll add this. I have yet to sell one of my tailored shirts as "the best wearing shirt I have ever worn. I'm just selling it to buy another shirt that fits me better". And when a guy tries to sell me a worn custom suit that was tailored for him, guess what....it wasn't made to my specifications. So, is it a custom tailored suit for me? NOPE.
 
Last edited:
Shawn Just Bullshits a Lot .....

This is hysterical.......weakstrong has once again inserted his foot in mouth but this time it was after stepping in a pile of pure bullshit.

He's obviously never had a custom shirt made but he's correct about the measuring that needs to be performed for a suit , however, it's even more involved when you order a custom tailored shirt that also takes 15-20 minutes. The custom shirt-maker takes very precise measurements and asks you questions about comfort and fit. Now this doesn't include any time spent looking at collar & cuff styles, buttons, pocket styles, any embroidery, selecting from the various shirt materials....there are many to choose from, and colors of course.

SA obviously has zero experience having custom shirts made unless this involved placing an ordering via the Internet or telephone with one of those Pacific basin firms or some ad on TV or in a magazine. Oh well, you can't reason with the ignorant-minded and that's what he's proven himself to be countless times.

And as far as cue-makers go, mine have always remained in very close communications with me via our multiple phone conversations throughout the build where we discussed how things were going, resolved any questions about the design and re-confirmed how it would be completed and also made changes to the design when, and if, it seemed appropriate.......this isn't going to happen with a production cue order.

Oh well, sometimes the mission is worth the effort but it appears this isn't one of them.......get ready for some more banter & bullshit from SA.
 
Last edited:
Since you are in the Atlanta area, I would suggest you come out to Aragon, GA and try one of mine. I have several built and ready to go in your price range.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top