How to eliminate movement

[book collector]

I have played most of my life with a pendulum stroke, which doesn't work well with shoulder problems.
I find myself jumping up , flinching {pain} or not being able to follow through all the way because something catches.
I also suffer for a couple of days after playing from the rubbing of bones tendons and muscles against each other.
What about forward hand speed?
The older I get , the less forgiving each shot is to my bodies problems.
I am trying to find a delivery, that eliminates as much movement as possible.
I have seen some great players who could generate tremendous speed with just their wrist action, especially on the break.
I never need to hit a ball that hard , so I should theoretically be able to play with nothing but my wrist movement on most shots.
Any thoughts, experiences?
So far it works great on short shots with table length speed or less , anyone know a method of generating twice that much power ?
I'm thinking like using rubber bands to build up my wrist strength sort of martial arts style?
I have no idea how much resistance or any of the variables , the main thing is I don't want to hurt myself.

 

[ENGLISH!]

This may be a can of worms.

I shoot many shots with mostly just my wrists or with very very little arm motion & can get plenty of power. I don't use a pendulum stroke & my elbow drops whenever it wants to do so.

I think the connection to the cue can have much to with the power one can get.

I connect to the cue with only my thumb & index finger just below the hand knuckles. This allows the cue to pivot as though a rod was running through the cue to those points on my finger & thumb. This way the wrist can activate without the cue moving in the vertical direction.

Also, when the elbow drops it takes that 'lifted' pressure off of the shoulder as the shoulder sort of gets into the shot on the tail end or maybe after the ball is gone.

I hope something here can be of help.

Good Luck & Best 2 You & Yours,
Rick

PS It's 'hell' being old & I know I'm just starting at 61.

 

[slide13]

I'm confused, why is the shoulder a problem in a pendulum stroke? The pendulum stroke works around a fixed shoulder position and all movement coming from the elbow joint. It seems about as simple a stroke you can find with a minimum of required movement.

I've never tried a wrist type stroke, alone I don't think you can get much power from just the wrist, but having never tried it, I cannot say for sure. Certainly seems to offer a very limited range of motion, but if that is all you are able, it's certainly better than not playing.

 

[book collector]

This may be a can of worms.

I shoot many shots with mostly just my wrists or with very very little arm motion & can get plenty of power. I don't use a pendulum stroke & my elbow drops whenever it wants to do so.

I think the connection to the cue can have much to with the power one can get.

I connect to the cue with only my thumb & index finger just below the hand knuckles. This allows the cue to pivot as though a rod was running through the cue to those points on my finger & thumb. This way the wrist can activate without the cue moving in the vertical direction.

Also, when the elbow drops it takes that 'lifted' pressure off of the shoulder as the shoulder sort of gets into the shot on the tail end or maybe after the ball is gone.

I hope something here can be of help.

Good Luck & Best 2 You & Yours,
Rick

PS It's 'hell' being old & I know I'm just starting at 61.

I have also been using the thumb and forefinger because the back fingers were interfereing with the shot at times.

 

[book collector]

I'm confused, why is the shoulder a problem in a pendulum stroke? The pendulum stroke works around a fixed shoulder position and all movement coming from the elbow joint. It seems about as simple a stroke you can find with a minimum of required movement.

I've never tried a wrist type stroke, alone I don't think you can get much power from just the wrist, but having never tried it, I cannot say for sure. Certainly seems to offer a very limited range of motion, but if that is all you are able, it's certainly better than not playing.

I'm not sure of what is going on mechanically, I also have a tendon that is disconnected and some torn muscle so it could be that affecting the movement.
The ability to keep playing without more damage or pain is the goal.

 

[slide13]

Hm, is the other arm/shoulder good? I wonder if, in the long-term, the chances of learning to play other handed would outweighs the stroke limitations on your dominant arm/shoulder? It would be a maddeningly frustrating period of adjustment, I'm quite sure, but there may be benefit to it if the shoulder issues are going to be persistent rather than temporary.

 

[7forlife]

Sorry to hear about your health problems.
To be honest, I think that there are more problems that solutions. The combination of habit, physical problems and being past the age to pick up new habits are far to difficult to overcome. If you had a table at home then I'd say give it a shot but most are not willing to give up playing pool in order to progress in skill level (practice for X amount of time without playing your friends so that you can fully master or understand what you were working on in the first place).

So here is my $0.02
have someone teach you proper stroke mechanics or practices stroke mechanics, it sound like you are muscling the ball to much and this conflict with you current physical ability. Adapt a more "steady eddie" style of pool where you play for the more natural angle that takes you where you need to be and not "the natural one in conjunction with" if you know what I mean. You can practice this by playing with no chalk on the cue thus forcing you to play center ball and thus having to find an angle that allow for a center ball hit to get position.

check out youtube or head over to accu-stats for some really old video (tapes in you case right, just kidding) on how the early player did it. Best of luck to your game and your health.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Shoulder Problems

Being an expert of sorts on shoulder problems, the shoulder movement involves lots of muscles, tendons and bursa.

The shoulder complex comprises 30 muscles. These muscles both move the shoulder and stabilize it - 'movers' and 'shakers'. The rotator cuff muscles predominantly stabilize the glenohumeral joint, but also contribute significantly to movement. The rotator cuff muscles are: Supraspinatus, Infraspinatus, Teres Minor & Subscapularis. The tendons of these muscle coalesce to form the rotator cuff. The muscles are inseparable at this level, except for subscapularis which is separate and joined to the rest of the cuff via the rotator interval.

Despite stabilizing the glenohumeral joint and controlling humeral head translation, the rotator cuff muscles also perform multiple functions, including internal rotation, and external rotation of the shoulder, movement of the big head & short head tendons attached to the arm though the Chromium and stabilizing the glenohumeral joint.

The shoulder joint (glenohumeral joint) is a ball and socket joint between the scapula and the humerus. It is the major joint connecting the upper limb (arm) to the trunk and is one of the most mobile joints in the human body. To reduce friction in the shoulder joint, several synovial bursae are present. A bursa is a synovial fluid filled sac, which acts as a cushion between tendons and other joint structures. There are also other minor bursae present between the tendons of the muscles around the joint.

As a ball and socket synovial joint, there is a wide range of movement permitted in the shoulder, For purposes of this topic, I'll confine my post to the two relating to the pool stroke and omit explanation of abduction, flexion and extension, although extension of the arm in a pool bridge or stroke is totally unavoidable.

Medial Rotation (rotation towards the midline, so that the thumb is pointing medially). Produced by contraction of subscapularis, pectoralis major, latissimus dorsi, teres major and anterior deltoid. Lateral Rotation (rotation away from the midline, so that the thumb is pointing laterally). Produced by contraction of the infraspinatus and teres minor.

So please do not post replies saying that the shoulder hasn't anything to do with the pool stroke.......what the hell do you think your arm muscles are connected to.......ask any orthopaedic surgeon specializing in arm & shoulder injuries. It's kind of funny to read the ignorant-minded opinions of some Azers on matters of hard medical facts like, for example, the human anatomy.

Matt B.

 

[Shooter08]

Wow, Bev I luv ya

Being an expert of sorts on shoulder problems, the shoulder movement involves lots of muscles, tendons and bursa.

The shoulder complex comprises 30 muscles. These muscles both move the shoulder and stabilize it - 'movers' and 'shakers'. The rotator cuff muscles predominantly stabilize the glenohumeral joint, but also contribute significantly to movement. The rotator cuff muscles are: Supraspinatus, Infraspinatus, Teres Minor & Subscapularis. The tendons of these muscle coalesce to form the rotator cuff. The muscles are inseparable at this level, except for subscapularis which is separate and joined to the rest of the cuff via the rotator interval.

Despite stabilizing the glenohumeral joint and controlling humeral head translation, the rotator cuff muscles also perform multiple functions, including internal rotation, and external rotation of the shoulder, movement of the big head & short head tendons attached to the arm though the Chromium and stabilizing the glenohumeral joint.

The shoulder joint (glenohumeral joint) is a ball and socket joint between the scapula and the humerus. It is the major joint connecting the upper limb (arm) to the trunk and is one of the most mobile joints in the human body. To reduce friction in the shoulder joint, several synovial bursae are present. A bursa is a synovial fluid filled sac, which acts as a cushion between tendons and other joint structures. There are also other minor bursae present between the tendons of the muscles around the joint.

As a ball and socket synovial joint, there is a wide range of movement permitted in the shoulder, For purposes of this topic, I'll confine my post to the two relating to the pool stroke and omit explanation of abduction, flexion and extension, although extension of the arm in a pool bridge or stroke is totally unavoidable.

Medial Rotation (rotation towards the midline, so that the thumb is pointing medially). Produced by contraction of subscapularis, pectoralis major, latissimus dorsi, teres major and anterior deltoid. Lateral Rotation (rotation away from the midline, so that the thumb is pointing laterally). Produced by contraction of the infraspinatus and teres minor.

So please do not post replies saying that the shoulder hasn't anything to do with the pool stroke.......what the hell do you think your arm muscles are connected to.......ask any orthopaedic surgeon specializing in arm & shoulder injuries. It's kind of funny to read the ignorant-minded opinions of some Azers on matters of hard medical facts like, for example, the human anatomy.

Matt B.

This post is equal to one certificate for one free Kamui Clear Black SS including shipping for Mr. Bevangoul if he posts next before anyone else. Free tip to Bec if his post is next after mine.

 

[14.1 Forever]

Being an expert of sorts on shoulder problems, the shoulder movement involves lots of muscles, tendons and bursa.

The shoulder complex comprises 30 muscles. These muscles both move the shoulder and stabilize it - 'movers' and 'shakers'. The rotator cuff muscles predominantly stabilize the glenohumeral joint, but also contribute significantly to movement. The rotator cuff muscles are: Supraspinatus, Infraspinatus, Teres Minor & Subscapularis. The tendons of these muscle coalesce to form the rotator cuff. The muscles are inseparable at this level, except for subscapularis which is separate and joined to the rest of the cuff via the rotator interval.

Despite stabilizing the glenohumeral joint and controlling humeral head translation, the rotator cuff muscles also perform multiple functions, including internal rotation, and external rotation of the shoulder, movement of the big head & short head tendons attached to the arm though the Chromium and stabilizing the glenohumeral joint.

The shoulder joint (glenohumeral joint) is a ball and socket joint between the scapula and the humerus. It is the major joint connecting the upper limb (arm) to the trunk and is one of the most mobile joints in the human body. To reduce friction in the shoulder joint, several synovial bursae are present. A bursa is a synovial fluid filled sac, which acts as a cushion between tendons and other joint structures. There are also other minor bursae present between the tendons of the muscles around the joint.

As a ball and socket synovial joint, there is a wide range of movement permitted in the shoulder, For purposes of this topic, I'll confine my post to the two relating to the pool stroke and omit explanation of abduction, flexion and extension, although extension of the arm in a pool bridge or stroke is totally unavoidable.

Medial Rotation (rotation towards the midline, so that the thumb is pointing medially). Produced by contraction of subscapularis, pectoralis major, latissimus dorsi, teres major and anterior deltoid. Lateral Rotation (rotation away from the midline, so that the thumb is pointing laterally). Produced by contraction of the infraspinatus and teres minor.

So please do not post replies saying that the shoulder hasn't anything to do with the pool stroke.......what the hell do you think your arm muscles are connected to.......ask any orthopaedic surgeon specializing in arm & shoulder injuries. It's kind of funny to read the ignorant-minded opinions of some Azers on matters of hard medical facts like, for example, the human anatomy.

Matt B.

There is more movement in the shoulder than most people realize. I personally have problems with both of my shoulders. I can not raise my shooting arm over shoulder height. Place your shooting arm in position and place your other hand on the front of your shooting shoulder, start stroking, you will feel a lot of movement, not all but a lot. From the medical end seeing an orthopedic doctor is a very good place to start. Surgery may or may not be needed. I see physical therapy in your future one way or the other.

In my case, I have a series of exercises I do before I shoot and another after I'm done. I was also advised to take Ibuprofen at least 12 hrs. before I play if possible and then again after to keep any inflammation down. CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR BEFORE TAKING ANY OVER THE COUNTER DRUGS!!!
[/B

On the shooting side try single stroking, to help keep the movement to a minimum. It might take some time, but it worked for me.

Wishing you good luck!!

Keep Shooting Straight !!

 

[14.1 Forever]

This post is equal to one certificate for one free Kamui Clear Black SS including shipping for Mr. Bevangoul if he posts next before anyone else. Free tip to Bec if his post is next after mine.

IMHO Bavafagoul still deserves the Kamui tip !!

 

[Neil]

Being an expert of sorts on shoulder problems, the shoulder movement involves lots of muscles, tendons and bursa.

The shoulder complex comprises 30 muscles. These muscles both move the shoulder and stabilize it - 'movers' and 'shakers'. The rotator cuff muscles predominantly stabilize the glenohumeral joint, but also contribute significantly to movement. The rotator cuff muscles are: Supraspinatus, Infraspinatus, Teres Minor & Subscapularis. The tendons of these muscle coalesce to form the rotator cuff. The muscles are inseparable at this level, except for subscapularis which is separate and joined to the rest of the cuff via the rotator interval.

Despite stabilizing the glenohumeral joint and controlling humeral head translation, the rotator cuff muscles also perform multiple functions, including internal rotation, and external rotation of the shoulder, movement of the big head & short head tendons attached to the arm though the Chromium and stabilizing the glenohumeral joint.

The shoulder joint (glenohumeral joint) is a ball and socket joint between the scapula and the humerus. It is the major joint connecting the upper limb (arm) to the trunk and is one of the most mobile joints in the human body. To reduce friction in the shoulder joint, several synovial bursae are present. A bursa is a synovial fluid filled sac, which acts as a cushion between tendons and other joint structures. There are also other minor bursae present between the tendons of the muscles around the joint.

As a ball and socket synovial joint, there is a wide range of movement permitted in the shoulder, For purposes of this topic, I'll confine my post to the two relating to the pool stroke and omit explanation of abduction, flexion and extension, although extension of the arm in a pool bridge or stroke is totally unavoidable.

Medial Rotation (rotation towards the midline, so that the thumb is pointing medially). Produced by contraction of subscapularis, pectoralis major, latissimus dorsi, teres major and anterior deltoid. Lateral Rotation (rotation away from the midline, so that the thumb is pointing laterally). Produced by contraction of the infraspinatus and teres minor.

So please do not post replies saying that the shoulder hasn't anything to do with the pool stroke.......what the hell do you think your arm muscles are connected to.......ask any orthopaedic surgeon specializing in arm & shoulder injuries. It's kind of funny to read the ignorant-minded opinions of some Azers on matters of hard medical facts like, for example, the human anatomy.

Matt B.

I guess you missed the whole point of that statement. Which is worse for an injured shoulder, dropping it for the stroke, or just letting it sit in place and only using the forearm as pendulum stroke is supposed to do?

For the OP- if you don't want to try playing lefty, try standing much straighter up. You won't be a champion playing that way, but can get quite good. Better than not playing at all.