Over-thinking and being Over-Techincal

DAVE_M said:
Nooo... I've been following this thread from the beginning and I don't agree with what you said.

You said:



And I showed you Charlie Williams. So, are you saying that Charlie Williams doesn't know how to practice, because he shoots slow?

I agree with everything Johnny said and still do.
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Yes, I will say that Charlie doesn't know how to practice correctly. That does not mean that he does not know how to play. If he practiced correctly, he wouldn't need to take so long to shoot.

You will also find that very few of the pros actually practice. They play a lot instead. SVB is one of the few that does actually practice.
 
Neil said:
Yes, I will say that Charlie doesn't know how to practice correctly. That does not mean that he does not know how to play. If he practiced correctly, he wouldn't need to take so long to shoot.

You will also find that very few of the pros actually practice. They play a lot instead. SVB is one of the few that does actually practice.
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This is the dumbest thing, I'll read, on AzB, in the next 5 years.

I think Charlie has an account on here. I wish he'd chime in.
 
Question: If during play, you estimate the tangent line (for 70-80%? of shots) to determine whether to follow/stun/draw, are you over-thinking? Should that have been practiced to an extent that it's second nature?
 
I think that slow players have issues with control. They need to consciously control everything around them. The thought of letting go represents utter chaos in their minds.

This is evident in their personalities and their actions, not just in pool, but with everything they do.

I don't think a certain type of practice on the pool table is going to be the answer for them. It will only help a little if at all, because once they are in competition, they will go back to their control defense mechanism.

They will need to change their belief system to make any constructive headway.
 
bdorman said:
Question: If during play, you estimate the tangent line (for 70-80%? of shots) to determine whether to follow/stun/draw, are you over-thinking? Should that have been practiced to an extent that it's second nature?
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Yes, qualifies as over-thinking in my book.

IMO, there is nothing wrong with getting into the habit of looking what direction the tangent line would take the ball, but that is as far as it goes. Do allow thoughts such as 'I want it further back so I will hit lower' to enter your mind. Switch the analytical brain off. Look along the line. Look where you want the cb to finish. Play the shot. No thinking.

Just my 2c
 
DAVE_M said:
This is the dumbest thing, I'll read, on AzB, in the next 5 years.

I think Charlie has an account on here. I wish he'd chime in.
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You only think it is dumb because you don't understand what I stated.
 
FranCrimi said:
I think that slow players have issues with control. They need to consciously control everything around them. The thought of letting go represents utter chaos in their minds.

This is evident in their personalities and their actions, not just in pool, but with everything they do.

I don't think a certain type of practice on the pool table is going to be the answer for them. It will only help a little if at all, because once they are in competition, they will go back to their control defense mechanism.

They will need to change their belief system to make any constructive headway.
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Yes, a good part of it is changing their belief system, basically, how they think. Proper practice can change that. Those that don't believe that is true, also then by default have to believe that we are who we are and cannot make changes in who we are or what we believe about ourselves. Proper practice goes beyond just shooting a ball in a hole.
 
Neil said:
Yes, a good part of it is changing their belief system, basically, how they think. Proper practice can change that. Those that don't believe that is true, also then by default have to believe that we are who we are and cannot make changes in who we are or what we believe about ourselves. Proper practice goes beyond just shooting a ball in a hole.
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What would you consider to be proper practice for a slow player?
 
We may be getting a bit off topic but I think a connective strand has been established. Some things take a bit of thought. Being prepared is always a good thing.

I was not originally what most would call a slow player but I was not a fast player. I think the reason is because I controlled 'me', the cue ball, very well. Most faster players, IMO, shoot the shot, perhaps with an intention to control the cue ball but not really too concerned if it does not go exactly as they intend.

Then I had a small eye accident & I became a slower player, not too slow, but what many might call a slow player, as in not a fast player. The reason was that due to my astigmatism from that small eye accident my not perfect vision put some doubt in my mind.

Now keep in mind, I'm talking about cheating pockets & using english very very much of the time.

Recently I found out that, for pool, I am cross dominant, & for pool, should be using my left eye. So recently, I have been playing pool a completely different way than I ever have.

I'm now playing so much faster that many might say that I am now a fast player.

The reason is that I have almost no doubt in my mind as to whether I am seeing correctly.

I guess what I am trying to say is, that one can consciously speed up or slow themselves down for whatever reason, but... I tend to agree with Ms. Crimi that the true issues are more deep rooted & are generally related to a psychological nature.

In golf, tempo can be very important & going against one's innate tempo might be a fix of some 'timing flaw' temporarily. But... in the long haul going against one's 'nature' rarely if ever works out.

If you're a thinker, think, but do so efficiently.

If you're a carefree type, give it a bit of thought.

Usually, Balance is best.

Who said, 'to thine own self, be true'?

Best 2 All,
Rick

PS I would be considered a slow golfer too, but... I never made anyone wait on me.

PPS I would suggest that most should listen to Ms. Crimi. She generally has a wealth of knowledge as well as IMO incite way beyond most instructors or any that give out advice & that certainly includes myself.
 
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Players fast or slow need to establish benchmarks, such as being able to have the cue ball go down the tangent line at various speeds. You can do this through the HAMB method or in my opinion shorten the learning curve through drills.

I know from drilling, that one half tip below the stun tip placement will yield me about a one ball draw on the cue ball. I also know thru drills what a half, full, or more english will do when the cueball comes off the rail.

When I look at the shot, I almost always look to see where the tangent line will take me. Do I want the cueball to go forward of the tangent line? How much? It is all measurable, if you can consistently have the cueball go down the tangent line at the exact speed you want.

Once a person has done the drills and it's match time, the tip placement comes naturally and doesn't require much thought.
 
CaptainDidactic said:
Players fast or slow need to establish benchmarks, such as being able to have the cue ball go down the tangent line at various speeds. You can do this through the HAMB method or in my opinion shorten the learning curve through drills.

I know from drilling, that one half tip below the stun tip placement will yield me about a one ball draw on the cue ball. I also know thru drills what a half, full, or more english will do when the cueball comes off the rail.

When I look at the shot, I almost always look to see where the tangent line will take me. Do I want the cueball to go forward of the tangent line? How much? It is all measurable, if you can consistently have the cueball go down the tangent line at the exact speed you want.

Once a person has done the drills and it's match time, the tip placement comes naturally and doesn't require much thought.
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Totally agree. Good post!
 
FranCrimi said:
I think that slow players have issues with control. They need to consciously control everything around them. The thought of letting go represents utter chaos in their minds.

This is evident in their personalities and their actions, not just in pool, but with everything they do.

I don't think a certain type of practice on the pool table is going to be the answer for them. It will only help a little if at all, because once they are in competition, they will go back to their control defense mechanism.

They will need to change their belief system to make any constructive headway.
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It would seem that several don't understand what you were saying here.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick
 
FranCrimi said:
I think that slow players have issues with control. They need to consciously control everything around them. The thought of letting go represents utter chaos in their minds.

This is evident in their personalities and their actions, not just in pool, but with everything they do.

I don't think a certain type of practice on the pool table is going to be the answer for them. It will only help a little if at all, because once they are in competition, they will go back to their control defense mechanism.

They will need to change their belief system to make any constructive headway.
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When I watch Corey Deuel, Darrell Appleton or even Justin Bergman play bar box 8 ball, I don't see anything but a controlled game. They calculate the exact placement they want the cueball to be and they put it there.They go for calculated breakouts. There is no "letting go". They control the table as much as they can.

Admittedly, I used to be a slow player. Not so much anymore. And after a beer or so when playing with friends I have no problem letting chaos fly so to speak. But when I need to win, I control the situation. This actually increases pressure on the go for it types. They know that if they don't get out, I will, or at the very least suffocate them with safeties.

No reason to give back a "won" game.
 
ENGLISH! said:
It would seem that several don't understand what you were saying here.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick
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Maybe you should just pm her and have her explain it more to you so you can understand it.:wink:
 
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This is turning into "let's see who can puff up their chest bigger" type thread.

Reading comprehension is very low here. Time to make my exit.
 
nice article. i think some points the author makes can definitely apply to pool. some points are similar and more debatable such as grip etc. in pool i tend to use a lighter grip most of the time, but ive seen some very good players grip tight. i found these basic pieces of advice to be true in pool as they are in golf:

If you are tense and grip too tightly, you probably cut your backswing short. The more relaxed you are, the further you can swing your arms (and the club) and the more power you generate

Anxiety ruins more shots that anything else.

They never commit to the shot. That's why most amateurs hit the ball to the right
 
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