Pool's "Best Practices"

[CJ Wiley]

How would you know if what you truly believe isn't true?

If you really believed that, you wouldn't post pictures mocking things that you don't know about. Such as what a pendulum stroke is, or that one can hit off-center of the cb without putting any spin on it, or that hitting the cb above center with the bottom of the tip is a special technique that takes time to learn, ect. ect.

What makes you think I don't know anything about a pendulum stroke? Is there a possibility that I really do know something about pool, or are you correct in thinking that I don't?

How would you know if what you truly believe isn't true?

 

[CJ Wiley]

There's no "knuckle balls" on the pool table. LoL

What makes you think you can't hit the OB off center without spinning it?
TOI is the real deal

Technically, (literally) it's not likely you'll hit many shots with absolutely no spin. Even a perfectly executed "center ball hit" will result in some spin. There's no "knuckle balls" on the pool table. LoL

 

[Neil]

What makes you think you can't hit the OB off center without spinning it?
TOI is the real deal

First, I didn't say a thing about TOI being real or not. Second, physics says you can't hit a sphere off the vertical center line without applying spin to it. Third, TOI wouldn't even work at all if the cb didn't have any spin to it. The goal of toi is to have the same amount of spin on the cb (but opposite direction) as will be picked up by contact induced spin with collision with the ob. You want the two spins to negate each other so the cb comes off the ob with no spin.

 

[Neil]

What makes you think I don't know anything about a pendulum stroke? Is there a possibility that I really do know something about pool, or are you correct in thinking that I don't?

How would you know if what you truly believe isn't true?

Oh, just maybe the fact that earlier you posted a picture saying that it was equivalent to the lochness monster and bigfoot. In simple terms, you said it is nothing more than a myth. I, and everyone on here, can only go by what YOU write. When you say it is a myth, and for bangers, then we have to assume that is your knowledge level of it.

See post #82 of this thread.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Spin on the cue ball occurs no matter where or how perfectly we hit it.

First, I didn't say a thing about TOI being real or not. Second, physics says you can't hit a sphere off the vertical center line without applying spin to it. Third, TOI wouldn't even work at all if the cb didn't have any spin to it. The goal of toi is to have the same amount of spin on the cb (but opposite direction) as will be picked up by contact induced spin with collision with the ob. You want the two spins to negate each other so the cb comes off the ob with no spin.

Efren is the one that called using TOI "no spin," it would appear he meant "after contact) - I don't think he was being literal, and neither am I. Spin on the cue ball occurs no matter where or how perfectly we hit it. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

Lighten up, it's just a game. 'The Game is the Teacher'

Oh, just maybe the fact that earlier you posted a picture saying that it was equivalent to the lochness monster and bigfoot. In simple terms, you said it is nothing more than a myth. I, and everyone on here, can only go by what YOU write. When you say it is a myth, and for bangers, then we have to assume that is your knowledge level of it.

See post #82 of this thread.

Did it ever occur to you that references to "Bigfoot" and the "Loch Ness Monster" may, just possibly, be a joke?

Lighten up, it's just a game. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[Neil]

Efren is the one that called using TOI "no spin," it would appear he meant "after contact) - I don't think he was being literal, and neither am I. Spin on the cue ball occurs no matter where or how perfectly we hit it. 'The Game is the Teacher'

That's funny considering how many times on here you have adamantly argued that there is no spin at all.

edit: But, it's good that you finally admit that it does have spin on it.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

What makes you think you can't hit the OB off center without spinning it?

Uh... physics? And, of course, the fact that it never happens.

(I assume you mean the cue ball, but it's the same no matter what ball you mean.)

TOI is the real deal

If this silly idea is an example of TOI being the "real deal", then it's definitely not.

pj
chgo

 

[DTL]

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[Patrick Johnson]

Even a perfectly executed "center ball hit" will result in some spin.

This doesn't make sense. Maybe you meant to say it's impossible to perfectly execute a center ball hit (which comes closer to making sense)?

But the truth is it's not all that hard to hit a cue ball close enough to "exact" center so that any miniscule rotation is insignificant to the shot - it's done all the time. It's certainly easy enough that we don't need a "system" based on the idea that it's "impossible" - nor do we need to mislead naive players about it.

pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

There is a difference between

hitting a ball for the intended use of the spin like throwing an object ball or significantly changing the angle a ball comes off a rail

& hitting a ball for the intended purpose of using the squirt to add cut angle & getting just a tad of spin on the ball.

In one the shooter is intentionally spinning the ball.

In the other the spin is 'hoped' to only be just the minimal amount so that it will be cancelled out by the collision with the object ball & the cue ball will continue after the collision with "no spin" but merely forward roll. Hence the "no spin".

In the first instance the cue ball almost all of the time continues with spin, even on a center CB hit as it will pick up spin or rotation from the collision.

One of the most volatile issues on AZB seems to be language & also those that want to nit pick not for the purpose of clarity but for the purpose of either pumping up one's own ego or for gleaning a perverse satisfaction by pointing out that another is technically incorrect.

Just as hitting the ball off center it's about the intention & purpose of those actions.

Best 2 All,
Rick

 

[Patrick Johnson]

There is difference between

hitting a ball for the intended use of the spin like throwing an object ball or significantly changing the angle a ball comes off a rail

& hitting a ball for the intended purpose of using the squirt to add cut angle & getting just a tad of spin on the ball.

If you hit the ball in the same place both times, there is no difference that matters - the cue ball spins. So I guess you're saying in the first case there's intentional spin and in the second case there's unintentional spin...?

I know which I'd rather have.

pj
chgo

 

[DTL]

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[DTL]

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[justadub]

Do you ever do anything other than comment on what other people are saying?

I used to.

The forum used to be a good place to exchange information, to have a civil discussion/debate, to share experiences, and to learn things.

It has devolved into sniping, insults, and arguing for arguments sake. Usually many of the same folks perpetuate this, thread to thread, forum to sub forum. Not trying to add to the discussion, merely trying to disrupt. Most will never give an inch in the debate, for fear of "losing" the argument.

Don't get me wrong, an occasional train-wreck thread can be entertaining. But all of them, all of the time?

Plus, what could I contribute that would satisfy you? You often refer to how bad a player I am, based on the one little video i posted in the Ask The Instructor forum.

A better question would be when will you contribute something that adds to the discussion? Yes, occasionally your snipes are humorous, but more often than not its more pot-stirring. Which begs the question, are you the pot, calling the kettle black?

 

[ENGLISH!]

IMO, to tell a beginner (or anyone for that matter) that the odds of hitting the exact vertical center line of a 2 1/4" sphere (or any sphere for that matter) with the exact center of what is approximately 3 millimeters of contact space on the end of a 56, 57, 58 inch or longer cue stick

are the same

as intentionally hitting to one side of that vertical center line

would be very misleading, regardless of whether or not they are naive.

Especially so, if all hits are to be taken into consideration over a time frame of several hours or nearly a complete day or two or a week, or a lifetime.

Perhaps that is why so many ultimately choose to use english for a percentage of shots as opposed to trying to consistently hit that infinitely small target with the center of that extremely small 3 mm implement without a miss.

Doing so makes the game so much 'easier' to play well.

And... the TOI method makes it even easier than using english for an extended time frame.

Now ALL please note.. I am not saying that the odds of hitting one's exact target increase by choosing to hit a side of the ball vs targeting that infinitely small exact center line.

I think most all of you will be able to figure out the difference.

Try hitting the exact center line of a golf ball with the exact center of a golf club head so that the ball goes straight.

Try hitting a tennis ball over the net but in front of the base line by hitting the horizontal center line of a tennis ball with the center line of a tennis racket.

I think you will find it much easier to choose hitting one side or the other with a method in mind much easier to do & you will get a much more consistent outcome.

Somehow we seem to find what is easiest & gets the best results in other aspects of our lives. I think we should do the same when it comes to playing pool.

To strive for perfection may certainly be considered honorable or something like that. But... to pursue what can never be had is a bit fool hearty when the best that one can attain may be right before them, at least it is to me.

Best to All,
Rick

 

[Neil]

IMO, to tell a beginner (or anyone for that matter) that the odds of hitting the exact vertical center line of a 2 1/4" sphere (or any sphere for that matter) with the exact center of what is approximately 3 millimeters of contact space on the end of a 56, 57, 58 inch or longer cue stick

are the same

as intentionally hitting to one side of that vertical center line

would be very misleading, regardless of whether or not they are naive.

Especially so, if all hits are to be taken into consideration over a time frame of several hours or nearly a complete day or two or a week, or a lifetime.

Perhaps that is why so many ultimately choose to use english for a percentage of shots as opposed to trying to consistently hit that infinitely small target with the center of that extremely small 3 mm implement without a miss.

Doing so makes the game so much 'easier' to play well.

And... the TOI method makes it even easier than using english for an extended time frame.

Now ALL please note.. I am not saying that the odds of hitting one's exact target increase by choosing to hit a side of the ball vs targeting that infinitely small exact center line.

I think most all of you will be able to figure out the difference.

Try hitting the exact center line of a golf ball with the exact center of a golf club head so that the ball goes straight.

Try hitting a tennis ball over the net but in front of the base line by hitting the horizontal center line of a tennis ball with the center line of a tennis racket.

I think you will find it much easier to choose hitting one side or the other with a method in mind much easier to do & you will get a much more consistent outcome.

Somehow we seem to find what is easiest & gets the best results in other aspects of our lives. I think we should do the same when it comes to playing pool.

To strive for perfection may certainly be considered honorable or something like that. But... to pursue what can never be had is a bit fool hearty when the best that one can attain may be right before them, at least it is to me.

Best to All,
Rick

Seems you are totally missing the whole point of TOI. Which is to have no spin after contact. To accomplish that, one must hit the cb very precisely, or there will be too much or too little spin on the cb. It's not simply a matter of just hitting to one side of the center line and calling it good. You have to be just as precise as when hitting center cb, or you are totally defeating the purpose of using it.

Also strange how YOU try and condemn others for "nitpicking words", when that is exactly what YOU have done with the pendulum stroke and CTE.

 

[branpureza]

Posting this again for laughs..........I think you missed it last time (edited in after you read the initial post).:grin-square:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pfxSuZ9xeI

Anyway, doesn't matter either way..........you're still gonna be an outstanding player with that MONSTER 10-Ball break!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzvCiqmG0zA

Ha I did miss that the first time. And I definitely associate you with Foghorn Leghorn.

I know you and Bob are more "students of the game" than I am but hopefully my explanation allows you to make sense of where I'm coming from on this.

But I definitely agree, it doesn't really matter. I just had to answer since I was asked.

:thumbup:

 

[DTL]

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[ENGLISH!]

If you hit the ball in the same place both times, there is no difference that matters - the cue ball spins. So I guess you're saying in the first case there's intentional spin and in the second case there's unintentional spin...?

I know which I'd rather have.

pj
chgo

No...

I did not say that at all & I would bet that you know that.

How often do you beat your wife?

Where did I say that the different intended purposes meant hitting the ball in the same place?

How can one use spin for the purposes that I stated & have the spin be canceled by the collision with the OB?

Would it be to throw a ball slightly with inside spin?

Would that be about, if not, the the only time, other then to cancel the outside spin that the CB would pick up from the collision to ever so slightly change how it comes off of the rail?

Would that not be one purpose or side effect of TOI?

Again, I'm not inclined to continue to play your games with words where you intentionally create distortion.

That is not a genuine discussion or a logical debate.

That's just being disingenuous.

I think you & some others underestimate the intelligence of the general readership here on AZB.

Perhaps you even forget the presence of so many many that only read & never post.

I think that most, if not all, are quite capable of seeing through the crap tactics that you've been using & for what purposes you've been using them.

I'm thinking Pidge was quite right with his assessment of you since you've returned.

RJ
NO, La.