Your comparisons are almost totally irrelevant to pool. Pump the brakes!
"It has to be" ?????? REALLY? You forgot IMHO. That would be the only way to give you a pass on most of your statements.
BTW I do like your sig.
Luther Lassiter: short story and quick question
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"It has to be" ?????? REALLY? You forgot IMHO. That would be the only way to give you a pass on most of your statements.
BTW I do like your sig.
Paul, that may be true in the more athletic sports you mention, but in a game like Pool, being bigger and stronger may not be that helpful. Personally I think Jim Brown would be a great running back in any era. I've never seen another quite like him, so tough to bring him down and he went 6'2 and 230. No small guy! In golf, IMO Nicklaus is still one of the best ever. He could play better under pressure than anyone I've seen in my lifetime, with the exception of Tiger, who is his equal. Pretty much all the top golfers acknowledge Nicklaus as one of the two or three best ever. With today's equipment he would still dominate.
In Pool, size and strength matter little. although many top players today are into conditioning. I think that gives them more endurance than anything else. It won't help them make a ball under pressure though. As far as I'm concerned Earl remains the best tournament 9-Ball player I've ever seen. No one before or since could string racks like him and do it match after match. As far as that goes Parica is the best money player I've ever seen. No one today would have liked it playing him in his prime. Shane would need his big break working to keep pace with him and that may not be enough.
I also saw Mizerak and Sigel (and Lassiter) perform at their peaks. Once again I don't see any Straight Pool players today who play that speed. Mizerak is in a class all by himself; with a great touch, a perfect safety game, a dead eye and the most powerful stroke ever. Say what you want, but for my money the Miz still rules! By the way, a lot of great players have taken a shot at Mosconi's record the last 5-10 years starting with BIH and no one has managed 500 balls yet. Willie played a game with which most players are unfamiliar. I watched him run many a hundred (on all kinds of conditions) and never get out of line once! I never see anything like that today.
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I always thought Cole Dickson sounded like a gunfighter.......and he was one too!
Jay, I will try to make the point from a different angle.
If it is true that every measurable record in EVERY measurable sport has regularly been broken and improved upon over the last xx-years, then it is nearly impossible for the same improvements not to be true for ALL immeasurable sports across the spectrum.
Great athletes were great in their time.
On a side note: I think it takes coordination, conditioning, and strength to hit the ball with the authority needed to excel. These are the same attributes needed for any competitive physical endeavor. Pool is a sport.
This is pointless but it is fun to think about.
If it is true that every measurable record in EVERY measurable sport has regularly been broken and improved upon over the last xx-years, then it is nearly impossible for the same improvements not to be true for ALL immeasurable sports across the spectrum.
Great athletes were great in their time.
On a side note: I think it takes coordination, conditioning, and strength to hit the ball with the authority needed to excel. These are the same attributes needed for any competitive physical endeavor. Pool is a sport.
This is pointless but it is fun to think about.
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Well, I think comedian Richard Lewis said it best about Mickey Mantle's great name. (And it could apply to Luther Lassiter and Cole Dickson as well):
Richard Lewis: "It's a good thing he wasn't named Sy Schwartstein..."
I have a question. As a teenager, I saw Willie do an exhibition in St, Louis, circa 1965. The man who taught me pool, gambling etc, had little regard for Willie. HE SAID, Willie could not play for cash, which is all that he and other Johnston City gamblers respected.
Did Mosconi gamble, if so, what games? I always felt, secretly as a teenager, it was jealousy from others for his Brunswick endorsement and appearance fees.
any thoughts?
BTW: Wilt Chamberlain was faster than Jim Brown in the 40, NEVER EVER beaten in the shot put!
Did Mosconi gamble, if so, what games? I always felt, secretly as a teenager, it was jealousy from others for his Brunswick endorsement and appearance fees.
any thoughts?
BTW: Wilt Chamberlain was faster than Jim Brown in the 40, NEVER EVER beaten in the shot put!
Paul, you are using flawed logic in your statement. `That's like saying that if you have 10,000 glasses, and the first 5,000 are full, then it is nearly impossible for the other 5,000 not to also be full.
Willie didn't gamble much. Either because of his contract, or because he didn't like it for some reason. Plus, he didn't need to with what he was making from Brunswick. However, when he got riled up, he would put his money where his mouth was. He did on several occasions, all with him winning. Both at 9 ball, and straight pool.
I always heard Willie didn't hustle, he did, indeed play for money. Before he was associated with Brunswick he would go into a place and tell 'em who he was and that he'd play anyone who wanted to play for whatever they wanted to play for. There are two stories, both are legends now, one about the hustler who said Willie couldn't play 9 ball. The guy's backer pulled up and the hustler said "What are you doing, you ain't seen me shoot yet!" Willie had won about 9 in a row running out from the break at that point. The other story, Fats got him to play One Pocket. When Fats called his backer in NY to wire more money he told him Mosconi didn't know how to play defense and ha had Willie right where he wanted him. Thing is Willie just kept running out. Backer sent no money
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Thanks again!!
Ok then, just for argument's sake how do you explain Mosconi's 526 holding up for over 60 years? It's not like Straight Pool died and went to heaven. There's been lots of tournaments and matches since he did that. LOTS! Lassiter ran 16 racks of 9-Ball in a gambling match that many people witnessed. And that was on a big table! I don't see anyone approaching these numbers today. What about Taylor's 37 banks in a row? Did all these guys just get lucky, kind of like Efren? I don't think so.
My theory is that they were actually great players, as good or better than anyone who followed them! Of course that's only my opinion. And you're entitled to yours.
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Yes indeed, that is the prevailing thinking among most sports fans. Russell won
championships because of the team he played on. But as an individual player,
not even close to Wilt.
You know who says that?... Bill Russell.
Dale
I would agree 100% and more about the jealousy part. Willie gambled as a young
man to support his family. But in later years he conveniently forgot about that.
He was publically scathing in his comments about players he felt were 'hustlers"
or 'pool sharks' as they used to be called.
IMHO - Willie was unrealistic to a point approaching delusional about what was
even possible as a full time pool player. Without the financial support of Brunswick
he would most likely have been poor as a church mouse.
Dale
Well put. And spot on!!
Dan James told me Luther had him make the red retangular ferrule . He said Luther was worried about his vision at the time..Dan said he did not need it..
I watched Luther (playing with Red Ferrule ) demolish Butera in 72 in San Deigo 9 ball -14-1 exhib. match .
side story..Fats was freinds with my father.I got to play with Fats in Oct 1963 I was 10 on my birthday .. he was my pool hero........A Very big deal for me at the time
..I told him I want to be like him when i play pool .He looked me staight in th eye and said its great you want to be like me but you want to play like Whimpy...
Later that day Fats went to a vets hospital/home to say hello and shoot with them..True story.
I watched Luther (playing with Red Ferrule ) demolish Butera in 72 in San Deigo 9 ball -14-1 exhib. match .
side story..Fats was freinds with my father.I got to play with Fats in Oct 1963 I was 10 on my birthday .. he was my pool hero........A Very big deal for me at the time
..I told him I want to be like him when i play pool .He looked me staight in th eye and said its great you want to be like me but you want to play like Whimpy...
Later that day Fats went to a vets hospital/home to say hello and shoot with them..True story.
He painted it red so his opponents would wonder why it was red
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I have no doubt that his opponents wondered about it but the story I read said he wanted to see it better.
Lou Figueroa
Maybe the rumor mill is mixing him up with Fats, who did like larger shafts.
R.A Dyer, in "The Hustler & The Champ," makes a compelling case for Willie gambling when he was younger. But as he got older Mosconi hated to admit that he'd done it, basically supporting his family playing money matches.
Lou Figueroa
Thinking back on it, the story didn't imply that he had it done for a particular reason so the vision story may well be right. The same book recited a story about someone who had a bell built into the butt of his cue. The author did imply it was a hustling gimmick
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