Luther Lassiter: short story and quick question

Neil, Pushout and PDcue,
Thanks so much for your comments and answering my question. He was the superstar of the industry but growing up as a teenager I was told Whimpy was THE MAN. From 1963-1966, I got to see Fats often play in Florissant, MO, Grandview Plaza Cue and Cushion. 1P versus the owner, Blackie Lesuer. Blackie always won, and towards the end I think was giving Fats 8-6. Man was Fats funny and knew how to really get under Blackie's skin...always talking. He was very friendly and cordial to all, that is except Blackie. Of course Blackie was our hero.
Phil
 
Willie was an A$$HOLE

Well - you have to tell both sides. The best player who was Pro-Level shortstop, and known gambler (from my hometown) told me that anyone that was ever around Willie said he was an a$$hole. He said that he was one of the few people that EVERYONE he knew thought the same thing.

I often thought that what an awesome job would be doing what Willie got to do for a living. But like most things, I imagine it got old and apparently that might have contributed to it.

Ken
 
Ken_4fun said:
Well - you have to tell both sides. The best player who was Pro-Level shortstop, and known gambler (from my hometown) told me that anyone that was ever around Willie said he was an a$$hole. He said that he was one of the few people that EVERYONE he knew thought the same thing.

I often thought that what an awesome job would be doing what Willie got to do for a living. But like most things, I imagine it got old and apparently that might have contributed to it.

Ken
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I don't think any of us can comprehend what it is like to be "the best in the world" at something and to live your life having to prove it in every town, every pool hall you walk into. Everyone wanted to take Mosconi down and I feel that that is something that colored his perception of the world.

Certainly, Willie was temperamental, as well as a genius. He also had a drive to win that led him to chewing his tongue bloody, sitting in the chair, as he competed for world championships.

In the dog-eat-dog world of pool, I don't think any of us would be normal had we been in his shoes.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
R.A Dyer, in "The Hustler & The Champ," makes a compelling case for Willie gambling when he was younger. But as he got older Mosconi hated to admit that he'd done it, basically supporting his family playing money matches.
Lou Figueroa
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I read that book also. Willie was growing up during the depression (no, not the one we're in now) where gambling for nickles and dimes meant food on the table.
Also, I've always felt that Mosconi saw himself as being a cut above his contemporaries.
Mr. Lassiter, on the other hand, seemed to be more down to earth, and of course, was a Southern gentleman who, unfortunately, got the 'swoles' when he was kissed by young women.
Jay may be able to expound on this line of thought better than I can. :)
 
lfigueroa said:
He said something about his eyesight and he thought the red ferrule helped.
Of course Lassiter, though a Southern gentleman through and through, had other ways of "distracting" his opponents, often complaining to anyone who would listen that he was near death with one illness or another, such as ailment involving his gall bladder. He also liked to make up scripture mid-match, as in after a scratch, "Oh,Lord, Thou hast forsaken me. I have been thwarted by a mere amoeba of our species."
Lou Figueroa
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.
I saw Lassiter give Danny Jones the 8 at table #1 next to the water cooler at Big Town billiards in Atlanta, around 1954.
Wimpy had a red line painted on the ferrule of his stick and he used it as an aiming aid, he said. (after he had busted Danny and his backers, which included a 16 year old me).
Then he walked up Pryor Street about 3 blocks to York's Pool Room and busted everyone in there...including Joe Cosgrove, who was NO shortstop.
After all that, you should've seen all the red lines painted on pool cue ferrules.....didn't help me a bit. I still played crummy. :)
Wimpy just had an "eye for them balls".
 
fjk said:
Back around 86, I watched Luther play in the BC Open 9 Ball Tournament. This was a major tournament at the time and all the big names were there. Luther looked much older than he actually was. He was only in his late 60s but looked like he was 80.

Luther cashed in that tournament and knocked off some of the big guys. One match, against Dave Bollman to cash, it went hill-hill (10-10). Luther was running out when he needed to go a few rails to get on the 8 (which was on the nameplate). The 9 was in the middle of the opposite short rail. He got perfectly straight on the 8. The crowd was all mumbling about what he was going to do. Luther quickly glanced down once again to where the 9 was, thought about 2 seconds and shot the 8 in with a stop shot. This left him a 9 foot 90 degree cut shot for the match. After shooting the 8, he immediately got down to shoot the 9, stroked it 2 or 3 times, and cut in the center of the hole. Dave just hung his head in disbelief.

Later that same tournament, I was sitting right next to Luther while we were both watching Earl Strickland steam roll someone (I can't recall who). Luther was not impressed with Earl's game at all. He kept talking to me about all Earl was doing wrong through the entire match. He especially was not impressed with Earl's position play. He told me he "would have loved to match up against Earl 30 years ago".

I was kind of leaning towards today's generation of players being stronger than previous generations. But of course, I never had the opportunity to watch someone like Luther Lassiter in his prime.

Just how good did Luther play (by today's standards / comparisons)? Do you believe Luther would have beaten Earl as Luther claimed (without any uncertainty BTW)?
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I just looked it up, Lassiter tied for 17th, he did the same in the previous tournament in 1985.
 
jay helfert said:
Ok then, just for argument's sake how do you explain Mosconi's 526 holding up for over 60 years? It's not like Straight Pool died and went to heaven.
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I hope no one takes this entire topic too seriously and that this is all in good fun.

For the most part, all Mosconi ever did was play straight pool. That 526 in straight pool was the measuring stick 50+ years ago as was 200,000 straight rail billiards 100+ years ago. Both games are pools version of solitaire and are infrequently played today. There is little interest by top players. I am saying that today, if all the best players did was play straight pool (as did Mosconi), that record would be gone.

It is the natural progression. As time marches on, every generation does stuff better. It is what happens.

I will save the 16 racks of nine-ball, Jim Brown, Nicklaus,and Wilt for another day. Too busy.
 
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Paul Schofield said:
It is not even close. I don't think you even need to know anything about pool and it's history to figure this one out. Pool's legendary players are not as good as today's players.

Today's human specimen is bigger, stronger, faster, and more coordinated than our sports icons of the past. Take a close look at every measurable sport (track & field, swimming, weight lifting, some snow sports etc). The records just keep falling year after year. Take a hard look at the bodies of our current day athletes and compare them to even just 20 or 30 years ago, not to mention 50 and 60 years ago. It is like night and day. It is like this for every sport, individual and team. Football teams of today would crush the "Steel Curtain". Jim Brown might not even get to play today. This is also true for golf and yes, for pool also. It has to be.

If our top players played 14.1 as often as top players of the past, Mosconi's 526 would have been downed a long time ago and by a number of players. That 526 is irrelevant today.

I will admit, it is fun to embellish the stories of our historic figures. I do it too.
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I disagree. Without PED's today's athletes aren't much different from previous generations. The primary improvement is knowledge about weight training and supplements. As soon as MLB got semi-serious about roids you saw home run totals shrink and the roid-free home run records of Ruth and Maris, two men who have been dead for decades, still stand.

Regarding pool, today's players are great but if you think the old timers couldn't compete you are mistaken. Crane ran 300+ on a 10 foot table. At DCC a couple years they used a 10 foot table for the 14.1 challenge and only one player ran 100 balls - today's top players from around the globe.

If Crane or Mosconi in their prime showed up at DCC to compete in the 14.1 challenge and there was a Calcutta I guarantee you the old timers would go highest in the bidding.
 
Paul Schofield said:
I hope no one takes this entire topic too seriously and that this is all in good fun.

For the most part, all Mosconi ever did was play straight pool. That 526 in straight pool was the measuring stick 50+ years ago as was 200,000 straight rail billiards 100+ years ago. Both games are pools version of solitaire and are infrequently played today. There is little interest by top players. I am saying that today, if all the best players did was play straight pool (as did Mosconi), that record would be gone.

I will save the 16 racks of nine-ball, Jim Brown, Nicklaus,and Wilt for another day. Too busy.
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Paul, I'll wait with bated breath for that other day and until then lighten up a little. Try to get out and have some fun.
 
Paul Schofield said:
It is not even close. I don't think you even need to know anything about pool and it's history to figure this one out. Pool's legendary players are not as good as today's players.
Today's human specimen is bigger, stronger, faster, and more coordinated than our sports icons of the past. Take a close look at every measurable sport (track & field, swimming, weight lifting, some snow sports etc). The records just keep falling year after year. Take a hard look at the bodies of our current day athletes and compare them to even just 20 or 30 years ago, not to mention 50 and 60 years ago. It is like night and day. It is like this for every sport, individual and team. Football teams of today would crush the "Steel Curtain". Jim Brown might not even get to play today. This is also true for golf and yes, for pool also. It has to be.
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The above opinion is ludicrous to the extreme. The idea that "bigger, stronger, faster, and more coordinated" has any relevance to pool, and pool players, is nonsense. Pool players are not athletes in the same sense that football, baseball, and basketball players are. Therefore, any comparisons made are of no value and should not be entertained.
Mr. Lassiter, as well as Efren, are men for their times. There need be no distinction made between the two, regarding their abilities.
This post was submitted as an introspection into the contribution made by Luther Lassiter, to the world of pool. Not the Wide World of Sports.
 
Paul Schofield said:
I think I stumbled upon a "sacred cow". I am going to leave this whole thing alone.
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Leave my first wife out of this, Paul.
You're right. I never really thought of it that way, but those who have gone before us are our sacred cows. Good, bad, or indifferent, those cows are all we have.
Maybe we should also remember that very, very, few of our past heroes ever prospered by playing pool. After passing, I know of at least one that had to have a memorial tournament in order to help pay his funeral expenses. C'est la vie. :)
 
PoolBum said:
That must be one helluva story if it involves 16 racks of 9-ball, Jim Brown, Jack Nicklaus, and Wilt Chamberlain.
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Jack Nicklaus is 75 and he had a hole in one last week at the Masters. That was cool to see.
 
fan-tum said:
Side note...Luther Lassiter is the greatest sounding name, for any sport, especially pool, I've ever heard. You can't make up great names like that.
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Agreed! I think the name would make for a great comic book villain or hero!
 
lfigueroa said:
From his instructional, "Billiards for Everyone" I would say no, maybe 12.75?

I have read that in his later years Lassiter tried painting his ferrule red to be able to see it better.

Lou Figueroa
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I was at the US open straight pool tournamnet when he first did that. We were in the practice room and when he pulled out the shaft with the red ferrule, everybody was looking at it. He explained he used some nail polish on it so he could see it better, what ever that meant.
 
phil dade said:
I have a question. As a teenager, I saw Willie do an exhibition in St, Louis, circa 1965. The man who taught me pool, gambling etc, had little regard for Willie. HE SAID, Willie could not play for cash, which is all that he and other Johnston City gamblers respected.

Did Mosconi gamble, if so, what games? I always felt, secretly as a teenager, it was jealousy from others for his Brunswick endorsement and appearance fees.

any thoughts?


BTW: Wilt Chamberlain was faster than Jim Brown in the 40, NEVER EVER beaten in the shot put!
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Willie on numerous occasions said he felt gambling cast a bad image on the sport, and maybe he was right. It certainly hasn't grown as other sports have (certainly due to a large mixture of things, besides just gambling). So naturally Willie stayed away from it as best he could.

But anyone who had said such things, back in Willie's time, was certainly as welcome as anyone to have tried winning one of the 15 World Championships he attained. It is quite easy to talk the talk.
 
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