Testing Shafts, Accuracy and Action

tashworth19191

tashworth19191

Pool will make you humble
Silver Member
I have been doing some test on my shafts and here is what I have found:

  • * - Vantage 12.9mm Predator Medium Tip - I have found this shaft to give me the most english. I can draw the ball almost 2 length of the table (OB 1 diamond from pocket and CB 5 Diamonds from OB). This one also offers me the least action.
  • * - Z2 11.75 Kamuai Super Soft - This one I have the most accuracy on my Predator butt, but it gets the least English on the cue ball. Close English is ok and control is good, but can barely draw back half length of table at a distance(OB 1 diamond from pocket and CB 5 Diamonds from OB).
  • * - Mcdermott i3 - Kamuai Soft - performs very similar to the Z2, but I can draw the ball better and this one is my favorite playing shaft. I can draw ball 3/4 table at distance.
  • * - Muecci Pro Shaft 12.5 mm Elkmaster Medium - This one seem very accurate and I get great action on the ball. This is my old Muecci with the new shaft. I like the way this one plays on 9 foot tables best, but these test are done on 8' table.
  • * - Muecci Black Dot 12.25 mm Elkmaster Medium- Performs similar to the Muecci Pro Shaft, but has way more deflection.
  • * - Muecci Red Dot 12.5 mm Elkmaster Medium- You have to hold the red dot up so it does not deflect bad, but I can draw with this one the same as my Vantage Shaft. This shaft has the best feel and good accuracy.

Just wondering if anyone else tested serveral shafts on same shots over and over again. My conclusion is that I am more accurate with smaller shafts, but can draw the cue ball better with bigger shafts. Also, each shaft has a different deflection that I had to adjust for.
 
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If you're having such a disparity [2 table lengths of draw vs 1/2 table length] on the same shots, you must not be hitting the CB in the same place. Repeat your testing with a training ball and only count the shots where the chalk marks match.
 
tashworth19191 said:
I have been doing some test on my shafts and here is what I have found:

  • * - Vantage 12.9mm Predator Medium Tip - I have found this shaft to give me the most english. I can draw the ball almost 2 length of the table (OB 1 diamond from pocket and CB 5 Diamonds from OB). This one also offers me the least action.
  • * - Z2 11.75 Kamuai Super Soft - This one I have the most accuracy on my Predator butt, but it gets the least English on the cue ball. Close English is ok and control is good, but can barely draw back half length of table at a distance(OB 1 diamond from pocket and CB 5 Diamonds from OB).
  • * - Mcdermott i3 - Kamuai Soft - performs very similar to the Z2, but I can draw the ball better and this one is my favorite playing shaft. I can draw ball 3/4 table at distance.
  • * - Muecci Pro Shaft 12.5 mm Elkmaster Medium - This one seem very accurate and I get great action on the ball. This is my old Muecci with the new shaft. I like the way this one plays on 9 foot tables best, but these test are done on 8' table.
  • * - Muecci Black Dot 12.25 mm Elkmaster Medium- Performs similar to the Muecci Pro Shaft, but has way more deflection.
  • * - Muecci Red Dot 12.5 mm Elkmaster Medium- You have to hold the red dot up so it does not deflect bad, but I can draw with this one the same as my Vantage Shaft. This shaft has the best feel and good accuracy.

Just wondering if anyone else tested serveral shafts on same shots over and over again. My conclusion is that I am more accurate with smaller shafts, but can draw the cue ball better with bigger shafts. Also, each shaft has a different deflection that I had to adjust for.
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Seems to me it is not the tip or the shaft, but the stroke that matters most and how low you hit on the que ball. The only true way to test it is on exact consistent strokes and tip placement. Some sort of machine maybe?
 
I tried to shoot the shot the same on all shafts. I even went back and forth between the Vantage and Z2. You are correct it may be my stroke and the way the small shaft size reacts to my stroke. This test is not scientific, I was just trying some accuracy and action test on the shafts I own. This is how they react with my current stroke. I play with the i3 because it gives me decent draw and the best accuracy.

ON THE VANTAGE I SAID "This one also offers me the least action." I MEANT ACCURACY. SORRY FOR CONFUSION.
 
Do all the shafts have the same inserts/thread and are they all being tested on the same butt?? If not, case closed.


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SCS1014 said:
Do all the shafts have the same inserts/thread and are they all being tested on the same butt?? If not, case closed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I am testing Vantage, Z2 and i3 on a predator 8k-3 butt and testing the Meucci shafts on a PP3 Meucci Butt. Both Sticks wiegh 18 oz and same length.
 
iusedtoberich said:
If you're having such a disparity [2 table lengths of draw vs 1/2 table length] on the same shots, you must not be hitting the CB in the same place. Repeat your testing with a training ball and only count the shots where the chalk marks match.
Click to expand...

This is good advice if the objective is scientific measurement of the shafts.

However, the more I think about this topic, the objective is actually to measure "how do I play with the shaft?" or "Which shaft gives ME the most draw?"

Certainly in that case, 50% of the results might be psychosomatic. But as long as it's consistent, it's good.

Just like aiming systems...it all comes down to what works for you.
 
bdorman said:
This is good advice if the objective is scientific measurement of the shafts.

However, the more I think about this topic, the objective is actually to measure "how do I play with the shaft?" or "Which shaft gives ME the most draw?"

Certainly in that case, 50% of the results might be psychosomatic. But as long as it's consistent, it's good.

Just like aiming systems...it all comes down to what works for you.
Click to expand...

Yes you are correct. I wanted to find out what size, type, shaft and tip gave me the most accuracy (which I think is more important) and which one I can get most spin on cue with. To me the 11.75 shafts don't get as much English because they flex more than the bigger diameter, but they feel the best so I am more accurate.

The Vantage shaft is biggest and stiffest shaft I own and I can draw, get more left and right and top with this stick. Also, it does have a Predator medium tip and the others have softer tips.

So you are correct, these are my results with the shafts I own. It may be my stroke, etc. But I do feel the larger shafts get more english than the smaller shafts.
 
bdorman said:
this is good advice if the objective is scientific measurement of the shafts.

However, the more i think about this topic, the objective is actually to measure "how do i play with the shaft?" or "which shaft gives me the most draw?"

certainly in that case, 50% of the results might be psychosomatic. But as long as it's consistent, it's good.

Just like aiming systems...it all comes down to what works for you.
Click to expand...

Good Post.

That's correct & too many times, IMO, much of what is said about the 'scientific facts' can be harmful to some individuals.

The bottom line is what 'equipment', if any, can help a particular individual play better.

We could get into an 'argument' as to why one piece of equipment yields x results for a particular individual but not another, but all that does not matter to that one particular individual.

Each individual should do their own individual tests & make their own determinations just as Tom has done here.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick
 
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Just throw all your special pie shafts out and buy kielwood shafts. I started using one last month, Kamui soft tip, 11.75mm , ivory ferrule- draws like a champ, applies English like a champ and has low deflection. You'll see them become more popular over the next 5 years.


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Probably your tips. In order to make this scientific, all of the tips must have the same radius and hardness (or lack thereof).

I can get 12 diamonds of draw after 5 diamonds of travel with my Z2 and a Talisman Hard tip.
 
bdorman said:
...the objective is actually to measure "how do I play with the shaft?" or "Which shaft gives ME the most draw?"
Click to expand...
I disagree. How well you do with a particular shaft can change over time, but what the shaft itself is capable of won't. It's best to know what the objective facts are.

One objective fact is that shafts themselves don't produce different amounts of spin - if they do it's because they're causing you to hit the CB differently. That's something you should want to know.

pj
chgo
 
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Getting ready to buy a new cue and have been trying to decide if I should get 12.75 or 12.5 . Leaning towards the 12.5 . Shooting with an old Meucci sneaky right now that is around 12.5.

I think you can shoot more accurate with a smaller shaft than a 13 in my opinion as well . I believe you can see more of the CB and can get more pin point on your shot and we all know the smaller you go the less deflection .

Yes there are so many variations of cues that do factor into testing things but tests like this still give good insight . Also just shooting good one day and not so well the next can make a difference .

Didn't have my cue at my buddies the other weekend and was shooting with my kids Action 8 ball mafia cue with a 12mm on it and couldn't hardly miss and ran a couple racks towards the end on his 8 footer .

I should just buy me one of those huh ? lol


Thanks for taking the time to post your findings Tom !
 
Shane33 said:
I think you can shoot more accurate with a smaller shaft than a 13 in my opinion as well . I believe you can see more of the CB and can get more pin point on your shot and we all know the smaller you go the less deflection .
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That's my experience with a smaller tip too.

To be clear, a smaller tip doesn't do anything special or mysterious, just reduces squirt and makes it easier to cue the ball accurately. To me those are valuable advantages.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
That's my experience with a smaller tip too.

To be clear, a smaller tip doesn't do anything special or mysterious, just reduces squirt and makes it easier to cue the ball accurately. To me those are valuable advantages.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Yep your statement concurs with my findings as well. The main reason I think I get less english is the smaller shafts are not as stiff as the Vantage shaft. I believe being a stiff shaft makes it put more spin on the ball. IMHO
 
tashworth19191 said:
Yep your statement concurs with my findings as well. The main reason I think I get less english is the smaller shafts are not as stiff as the Vantage shaft. I believe being a stiff shaft makes it put more spin on the ball. IMHO
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I don't believe that's true. I've compared lots of shafts under controlled conditions and have never found a significant difference in the amount of spin they produce. My thin-tipped shaft has a straight (conical) taper, which makes it stiffer than most larger-tipped shafts, but it doesn't produce any more or less spin.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I disagree. How well you do with a particular shaft can change over time, but what the shaft itself is capable of won't. It's best to know what the objective facts are.
Click to expand...

Sure, it's interesting to know objective facts.

However,

1) our bodies, minds and experiences often contradict and overule the objective facts. If one person gets more draw with an 11.5mm tip and the other gets more with a 13mm tip, neither one cares about the facts...they only care about what works for them.

2) I doubt the OP (or any of us) could afford a cue-testing machine that would reveal the objective facts -- if such a machine even exists. And really, the OP is the only "machine" that matters; he's the one who has to take the "facts" to the table.

3) "...what the shaft is capable of..." Interesting to know, but how useful? I love the arguments about which shaft has the least defection -- who cares? I don't care if it has absolute-zero deflection if it feels like a freshly cut green twig.

I sure am glad I only own two shafts :D
 
bdorman said:
If one person gets more draw with an 11.5mm tip and the other gets more with a 13mm tip, neither one cares about the facts...they only care about what works for them.
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If they never learn the objective facts about this, then they don't really know what worked for them - only what their impression was at the time.

And if they become convinced that objective facts don't matter, then they may never learn what's really best for them.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
If they never learn the objective facts about this, then they don't really know what worked for them - only what their impression was at the time.

And if they become convinced that objective facts don't matter, then they may never learn what's really best for them.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Exactly why I ran an extensive test on this. I wanted to know what works for me, with my current stroke and ability. I know people can put way more draw on a cue ball than me. But I am just saying, these are the results I had. They are what they are...
 
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