CJ defeats Earl and a Special Thanks to this Forum

I too appreciate when top level players take the time to post and commend them for putting up with what they have to bear. It isn't surprising that more pros don't take the time to post, which is unfortunate because pool pros are more accessible to regular players than the professionals in most sports.

I certainly appreciate CJ and others taking the time to post and hope they continue (and more pros participate).

I agree with the comment above that the mods should exert more control over the disrespectful clashes that occur here. Most sites I frequent have rules against harassment and various other forms of personal, mean-spirited conflict. Offenders' posting privileges get suspended for a time in the case of repeated violations. A lot of the personal attacks that occur here shouldn't be tolerated. If you disagree with someone, it can be expressed respectfully and without creating an ongoing battle. It defies common sense to think that so many people come to a site dealing with what is an enjoyable hobby to most apparently to create acrimony and conflict.
 
Cardigan Kid,

You have this right.

I was reading a thread on Facebook, just yesterday where a number of posters, some of them World champions, were admitting that they no longer post on AZ Billiards.

CJ and Gene Albrecht are about the only top players regularly posting on AZB. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

IMO, AZB should have stronger policies against harassment.

CJ and Gene have run the gauntlet and come out the other side as the winners that they both are.

Much respect to the both of them for tolerating the constant ridicule and harassment and much thanks for the sharing of their journey with us mere mortals.


JoeyA

:thumbup2: :thumbup2:
 
Neil,
Unfortunately you mistake my respect for CJ Wiley for "worship". CJ continues to make an effort to share some of his pool knowledge with the rest of us everyday people and I think that is what this site is supposed to be about. You at one time made a great effort to share your pool knowledge with the forum but now it appears you choose to harass CJ and anyone who likes or respects him.

SJD doesn't seem interested in helping anyone with their pool game but you may correct me if I am wrong. I just haven't seen it.

And as for you, you can't let go of the sniping that went on between you and CJ way back when, at which time, he mistook you for someone else that he had crossed paths with before.

Ever since that time, it seems you have stalked CJ at every opportunity seeking to tear apart what he teaches and in general make his presence on AZ Billiards miserable for lack of a better word.

I've always enjoyed your posts about pool but the pettiness of following CJ around and attempting to ridicule those who like or respect CJ is well, quite pathetic. I don't mean to be rude to you but perhaps like SJD, you will find some truth in what I say and seek to resolve some of these issues. It is after all, up to each man to work out his own salvation.

Best regards,
JoeyA

:thumbup2::thumbup2:

Especially the part in 'Joey Blue'.
 
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Neil,
Unfortunately you mistake my respect for CJ Wiley for "worship". CJ continues to make an effort to share some of his pool knowledge with the rest of us everyday people and I think that is what this site is supposed to be about. You at one time made a great effort to share your pool knowledge with the forum but now it appears you choose to harass CJ and anyone who likes or respects him.

SJD doesn't seem interested in helping anyone with their pool game but you may correct me if I am wrong. I just haven't seen it.

And as for you, you can't let go of the sniping that went on between you and CJ way back when, at which time, he mistook you for someone else that he had crossed paths with before.

Ever since that time, it seems you have stalked CJ at every opportunity seeking to tear apart what he teaches and in general make his presence on AZ Billiards miserable for lack of a better word.

I've always enjoyed your posts about pool but the pettiness of following CJ around and attempting to ridicule those who like or respect CJ is well, quite pathetic. I don't mean to be rude to you but perhaps like SJD, you will find some truth in what I say and seek to resolve some of these issues. It is after all, up to each man to work out his own salvation.

Best regards,
JoeyA

Joey,

Apparently you either missed (or ignored) my post from a few days ago !..I am not sure I owe you, or anyone, an apology..But I do try to get along with 'most' people !..What you describe as moral shortcomings, by me and others, just might be a low level of tolerance for inane BS ! (and/or boasting)..YOU may need some work on your 'salvation' too, as someone your age should be more immune to plain old 'pool room doubletalk', no matter how confusing or distorted it may be packaged!

(from the other thread, same participant's-->) http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5159118&postcount=369

PS..What good does it do to 'semi-apologize', if its going to be 'semi-ignored' ? :(..I also think you need to check with Webster, on the definition of the word 'worship' !..CJ is not the first "aiming system promoter" you have tried to elevate to sainthood ! :eek:

PPS..I see he immediately followed this post, with his 'usual' redundant offering !..Maybe, if he could, JUST ONCE, show an ounce of humility......Oh well ???
imagesCACLCRN1.jpg
 
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I put together the TOI technique so it could be taught to any interested player

I have no doubt, as a once world class player, you're helping your students play better. But it's likely due to you correcting basic fundamental flaws in their game instead of some of the "far out" things you've claimed are "very advanced techniques".

I'll just mention a couple:

- "hitting with the elbow", a phrase by the best cueist in the world, Ronnie O'Sullivan.

You made it sound as if it is was something really special/secret and "it takes a keen eye AND ear" (paraphrasing) to properly teach this "very advanced technique".......and that it would take hours to teach. You also said that video taping this technique was not possible and/or wouldn't be helpful.

And the real truth about all this was simply this --> http://www.tubechop.com/watch/5775535

- "we play the game out in front of our bodies" or "I like to see the elbow out in front of us" or "I feel as if I'm shooting out of the center of my chest".

You never mentioned which elbow you're talking about, so I'm assuming you're talking about the stroking elbow. Most pool players set up at about 45 degrees to the shot line and snooker players are nearly face on to the shot line. Therefore, for the most part, the stick is at our side and the elbow is BEHIND us.........there is no other way to play. Could you post some pictures of "playing out in front".........with the elbow in front of you?

You like to borrow phrases from the golfing community (Hank Haney). They all sound good, but our set up is totally different from theirs ...........keeping the arms in front throughout the swing works for them. They use about 13 different body hinges, we only want one or two moving on most shots.....the elbow and wrist.

- "by mastering the TOI technique, you will in effect, play at a championship level" (paraphrasing).

Is this a misleading, or worse, statement? Would you consider retracting it?

I could mention more but I'll leave it at that.


DTL


These statements are true from my experience, It's not easy to master the game of pool using any method, including TOI. I clearly gave Ronnie O'Sullivan the credit for the "hitting with the elbow" statement. I like what he said, and simply passed it down the line to others that may not have been exposed to his words of wisdom.

I do play the game out in front of me and think of being square with the center of my vision. My thought is that I'm hitting out of the center of my chest, Earl Strickland thinks about hitting himself in the forehead on the break with the cue ball.....in either case it's not literal, and shouldn't be taken that way.

Are you saying I didn't play at a championship level? Then you are in the minority.

I put together the TOI technique so it could be taught, however, there were many champions that masted the inside of the cue ball and they were all considered champions. Wade Crane told me that Luther Lassiter played this style, and he was certainly respected as one of the best money/tournament players of all time.

Of course the term "Touch of Inside" came from how Mike Lebron describing how Efren Reyes plays. I've played Efren on several occasions, for large amounts of money (tournaments and gambling) and we both played a variation of the TOI technique.

10387540_1077470312279004_3848270090793002839_n.jpg
 
Why do people keep referencing how past champions played?

Anyone thinking learning their techniques will make them play like those guys did in their prime is a fool. There is a reason no one at the top level plays like them any more, and it's NOT a secret that can be purchased for an initial 49.95.

You want the truth? Their technique sucked.
 
I appreciate C J's posts and contribution on AZ. I have also purchased his products and have found them informative, understandable, and will purchase more. Additionally, IMO his knowledge and approach would make him an excellent teacher/coach.

I do not understand those taking the time to spew negatives , unless they have value to add that is contradictory and they feel better advice. Under this scenario, the reader can determine what is best for their situation.

A great tutorial would be an instructional trip to Dallas and on to Phoenix if anyone would be inclined to instruct :smile::smile:
 
I appreciate C J's posts and contribution on AZ. I have also purchased his products and have found them informative, understandable, and will purchase more. Additionally, IMO his knowledge and approach would make him an excellent teacher/coach.

I do not understand those taking the time to spew negatives , unless they have value to add that is contradictory and they feel better advice. Under this scenario, the reader can determine what is best for their situation.

A great tutorial would be an instructional trip to Dallas and on to Phoenix if anyone would be inclined to instruct :smile::smile:

:thumbup2: Good Post.

Far too many, well maybe it is only a select few, but repetition makes it seem like far too many, attack the messenger rather than the message.

Some attack the message but really offer no real argument or counter measure. To me, that is often an attempted disguised attack of the messenger.

Some realize that this game is played with more than just the physicality of the physical sciences. That is because we are not machines & because we have minds both conscious & subconscious that come into play.

CJ Wiley is one of those individuals & probably the most prominent of that realm.

CJ has been studying the connections & how one might affect the other.

For most of us (can I use the word most without having statistical proof), The Game is a hobby, pass time, side line, passion, or a dream.

The Game was/is basically CJ's life's 'work'. I would guess that he has put in more time in all aspects of the game than 'most' of us.

It rather amazes me, well not really, how some are okay when a non literal analogy, 'like a pendulum', is made but then cry foul when other non literal analogies are made. That reeks of hypocrisy & ulterior motives.

Some of us know that true credentials are far more than what is represented by a piece of paper from an 'accrediting body', whether that body is appointed or self declared.

I am sure that there are some pros from whom I would not wish to take a lesson just as there are 'credentialed' instructors that I am sure I would not wish to take a lesson. I would certainly enjoy the opportunity to take a lesson from CJ Wiley.

Disagreeing with & discussing & 'arguing' against a procedure that another is putting forth is completely different than 'attacking' the messenger.

CJ has often said that if something he says does not register or fit an individual that individual should just put it aside as they may wish to revisit it at sometime in the future. He's also said what he is putting out probably will only register with about 37% of those playing the game.

CJ has helped my game & I certainly thank him for it. I guess I am one of that 37%.

I am rather sure that he can & will help the game of others as well.

Why anyone would want to try to stifle that makes no real sense to me other than they have some ulterior & probably selfish motive.

If one disagrees with something CJ puts out & sees it as possibly being harmful then explain that. There is no reason to attack the messenger if the messenger is well meaning. If the 'argument' is reasonable, I'd bet that CJ would give it its due credit.

Most of us here are adults & as such should be capable of making our own determinations. To do so, appropriately, we just need to hear both sides of a dispute. We do not need to hear derogatory & uncivil things about the messengers from either side of a disagreement. That is unless there are ulterior motives by some. Then, those are in play & should be pointed out for consideration by individuals to weigh if those motives could perhaps make the message invalid or not.

Sorry for the rant. It just seems that certain individuals come out & play follow the leader & hence the numbers of 'attacks' build up.

Again, Good Post by You & All the Best 2 You & Yours....& All,
Rick
 
:thumbup2: Good Post.

Far too many, well maybe it is only a select few, but repetition makes it seem like far too many, attack the messenger rather than the message.

Some attack the message but really offer no real argument or counter measure. To me, that is often an attempted disguised attack of the messenger.

Some realize that this game is played with more than just the physicality of the physical sciences. That is because we are not machines & because we have minds both conscious & subconscious that come into play.

CJ Wiley is one of those individuals & probably the most prominent of that realm.

CJ has been studying the connections & how one might affect the other.

For most of us (can I use the word most without having statistical proof), The Game is a hobby, pass time, side line, passion, or a dream.

The Game was/is basically CJ's life's 'work'. I would guess that he has put in more time in all aspects of the game than 'most' of us.

It rather amazes me, well not really, how some are okay when a non literal analogy, 'like a pendulum', is made but then cry foul when other non literal analogies are made. That reeks of hypocrisy & ulterior motives.

Some of us know that true credentials are far more than what is represented by a piece of paper from an 'accrediting body', whether that body is appointed or self declared.

I am sure that there are some pros from whom I would not wish to take a lesson just as there are 'credentialed' instructors that I am sure I would not wish to take a lesson. I would certainly enjoy the opportunity to take a lesson from CJ Wiley.

Disagreeing with & discussing & 'arguing' against a procedure that another is putting forth is completely different than 'attacking' the messenger.

CJ has often said that if something he says does not register or fit an individual that individual should just put it aside as they may wish to revisit it at sometime in the future. He's also said what he is putting out probably will only register with about 37% of those playing the game.

CJ has helped my game & I certainly thank him for it. I guess I am one of that 37%.

I am rather sure that he can & will help the game of others as well.

Why anyone would want to try to stifle that makes no real sense to me other than they have some ulterior & probably selfish motive.

If one disagrees with something CJ puts out & sees it as possibly being harmful then explain that. There is no reason to attack the messenger if the messenger is well meaning. If the 'argument' is reasonable, I'd bet that CJ would give it its due credit.

Most of us here are adults & as such should be capable of making our own determinations. To do so, appropriately, we just need to hear both sides of a dispute. We do not need to hear derogatory & uncivil things about the messengers from either side of a disagreement. That is unless there are ulterior motives by some. Then, those are in play & should be pointed out for consideration by individuals to weigh if those motives could perhaps make the message invalid or not.

Sorry for the rant. It just seems that certain individuals come out & play follow the leader & hence the numbers of 'attacks' build up.

Again, Good Post by You & All the Best 2 You & Yours....& All,
Rick

Why make a long post about something that you never follow? Why do you always see a reasonable argument against something said as attacking, and then make sure you rally the troops to attack the person making the argument? Why even mention "wording" when you are the biggest attacker of words on here? You have thousands of post doing just that.

In other words, what's the point of your post if you aren't even going to follow it?
 
Why do people keep referencing how past champions played?
Anyone thinking learning their techniques will make them play like those guys did in their prime is a fool. There is a reason no one at the top level plays like them any more, and it's NOT a secret that can be purchased for an initial 49.95.
You want the truth? Their technique sucked.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I really believe if I could play 80% like Lassiter using whatever technique he used, I could rob anyone on this forum. As well as a lot of those out on the tour.
Thereby picking off maybe $150,000 a year just shooting pool and not making bad bets.
And that would be good enough for me. :wink:
 
I can't speak for anyone else, but I really believe if I could play 80% like Lassiter using whatever technique he used, I could rob anyone on this forum. As well as a lot of those out on the tour.
Thereby picking off maybe $150,000 a year just shooting pool and not making bad bets.
And that would be good enough for me. :wink:

And can you?
 
These statements are true from my experience, It's not easy to master the game of pool using any method, including TOI. I clearly gave Ronnie O'Sullivan the credit for the "hitting with the elbow" statement. I like what he said, and simply passed it down the line to others that may not have been exposed to his words of wisdom.

I do play the game out in front of me and think of being square with the center of my vision. My thought is that I'm hitting out of the center of my chest, Earl Strickland thinks about hitting himself in the forehead on the break with the cue ball.....in either case it's not literal, and shouldn't be taken that way.

Are you saying I didn't play at a championship level? Then you are in the minority.

I put together the TOI technique so it could be taught, however, there were many champions that masted the inside of the cue ball and they were all considered champions. Wade Crane told me that Luther Lassiter played this style, and he was certainly respected as one of the best money/tournament players of all time.

Of course the term "Touch of Inside" came from how Mike Lebron describing how Efren Reyes plays. I've played Efren on several occasions, for large amounts of money (tournaments and gambling) and we both played a variation of the TOI technique.
Hi CJ,

I know that you do not need any advice or encouragement from anyone but I would suggest that you keep doing exactly as you have been doing.

I think there are more than 37% of us that can understand the difference when you are speaking metaphorically & when you are speaking literally.

And... You have always been quick to clarify when questioned about anything just as you did about the hitting with the elbow & the out in front statements.

As I've eluded to several times now, there are those that play the game more like athletes while others play more from a bookworm approach. Again no offense to either designation. I think I am a blend of both but I know when to keep one from interfering with the other.

In baseball hitting .333 is considered rather good. I think you are hitting way more than .370. If I had to guess, I'd guess you are more in the .500 range. Its just that many of those that you reach are of the quiet type. The ones with a quiet confidence.

So...for those of us that truly appreciate what you do by sharing your experience & insights, thanks again, & please keep sharing. I'd say 1/2 or more of us here truly appreciate what you do & just the way that you do it.

You are thought provoking, & there is nothing better a teacher can do than to provoke & inspire thought in others.

Be & Stay Well,
Rick
 
Me??????
Play 80% like Lassiter???
No way.
I am nobody, absolutely nobody...that's why I'd love to have some of his "technique" that some ridicule.
(picking a fight with me won't work. I won't play) :)

If you bought that line that Luther used TOI as his main method of play, I know of a bridge you can buy. ;)
 
These statements are true from my experience, It's not easy to master the game of pool using any method, including TOI. I clearly gave Ronnie O'Sullivan the credit for the "hitting with the elbow" statement. I like what he said, and simply passed it down the line to others that may not have been exposed to his words of wisdom.

I do play the game out in front of me and think of being square with the center of my vision. My thought is that I'm hitting out of the center of my chest, Earl Strickland thinks about hitting himself in the forehead on the break with the cue ball.....in either case it's not literal, and shouldn't be taken that way.

Are you saying I didn't play at a championship level? Then you are in the minority.

I put together the TOI technique so it could be taught, however, there were many champions that masted the inside of the cue ball and they were all considered champions. Wade Crane told me that Luther Lassiter played this style, and he was certainly respected as one of the best money/tournament players of all time.

Of course the term "Touch of Inside" came from how Mike Lebron describing how Efren Reyes plays. I've played Efren on several occasions, for large amounts of money (tournaments and gambling) and we both played a variation of the TOI technique.
Hi CJ,

I know that you do not need any advice or encouragement from anyone but I would suggest that you keep doing exactly as you have been doing.

I think there are more than 37% of us that can understand the difference when you are speaking metaphorically & when you are speaking literally.

And... You have always been quick to clarify when questioned about anything just as you did about the hitting with the elbow & the out in front statements.

As I've eluded to several times now, there are those that play the game more like athletes while others play more from a bookworm approach. Again no offense to either designation. I think I am a blend of both but I know when to keep one from interfering with the other.

In baseball hitting .333 is considered rather good. I think you are hitting way more than .370. If I had to guess, I'd guess you are more in the .500 range. Its just that many of those that you reach are of the quiet type. The ones with a quiet confidence.

So...for those of us that truly appreciate what you do by sharing your experience & insights, thanks again, & please keep sharing. I'd say 1/2 or more of us here truly appreciate what you do & just the way that you do it.

You are thought provoking, & there is nothing better a teacher can do than to provoke & inspire thought in others.

Be & Stay Well,
Rick

Quick to clarify about hitting with the elbow? Are you kidding me? Did you even watch the video where Ronnie teaches it? Ronnie was advocating a (are you sitting down?) PENDULUM stroke! Strange how you are so quick to defend the nonsense on here.
 
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