Right. It seems though that we have less run outs on the 7fts with 9 ball. Probably the traffic factor.
2015 US OPEN 10-BALL & 8-BALL CHAMPIONSHIPS! July 24-31, Las Vegas, NV!
- Thread starter CSI - Ozzy
- Start date
Right. It seems though that we have less run outs on the 7fts with 9 ball. Probably the traffic factor.
The promoters of the "2015 US OPEN 10-BALL & 8-BALL CHAMPIONSHIPS" have both the right and responsibility to arrange the event, including the tables, in a manner that they feel will allow a profit (or at least a sustainable loss), both in this year and in the years to follow.
Oh, but don't call it a US Open if it is to be played on 7 foot tables!
Why the heck not? It seems like people are making something of these US Opens that they are not. These US Opens are babies on the annual event sports scene, not something historically important that needs to be held without change year after year to keep its history intact - because it has little or none such history. The cachet of a name like US Open Championships when applied to 8-ball or 10-Ball means only two things to most pool players, first that is it played in the US, and second it is open to anyone with the $350 entry fee.
Even the revered-but-highly criticized US Open 9-Ball Championships is a relative newcomer as annual sporting events go - it can brag of only a 40 year history, assuming it makes its 2015 run.
These pool tournaments do not have the history nor the glamour of a Kentucky Derby, or Indianapolis 500, or even a Fort Worth Stock Show and Rodeo (in which I participated way back in 1967-68-69 and it was old even back then). They are newcomers, and have not yet earned any real importance, or any reason to avoid change because the name 'US Open' is supposed to have some deep significance to 'real' pool players.
Oh, but don't call it a US Open if it is to be played on 7 foot tables!
Why the heck not? It seems like people are making something of these US Opens that they are not. These US Opens are babies on the annual event sports scene, not something historically important that needs to be held without change year after year to keep its history intact - because it has little or none such history. The cachet of a name like US Open Championships when applied to 8-ball or 10-Ball means only two things to most pool players, first that is it played in the US, and second it is open to anyone with the $350 entry fee.
Even the revered-but-highly criticized US Open 9-Ball Championships is a relative newcomer as annual sporting events go - it can brag of only a 40 year history, assuming it makes its 2015 run.
These pool tournaments do not have the history nor the glamour of a Kentucky Derby, or Indianapolis 500, or even a Fort Worth Stock Show and Rodeo (in which I participated way back in 1967-68-69 and it was old even back then). They are newcomers, and have not yet earned any real importance, or any reason to avoid change because the name 'US Open' is supposed to have some deep significance to 'real' pool players.
Ozzie Osbourne Reynolds of CSI
Ozzie Osbourne Reynolds of CSI makes their case for using 7 foot tables, and his points seem to me to be good ones. Unfortunately, the interviewer is not so good, barely letting his inteviewee get a word in edgewise, but in any case Mr. Reynolds responses start at about 32:30 and continue for about another 20 minutes on American Billiard Radio here:
http://www.americanbilliardradio.com/
My understanding of what he is saying:
Mr. Reynolds says they forbid staff to use the terms bar table or bar box except when referring to the company sponsored event of that title. The reasoning is that Diamond 7 foot tables are not your grandpa's bar box.
Today's 7 foot tables, the ones many fast becoming industry standard, no longer use those wobbly magnetic-core cue balls, nor the oversize cue balls. The tables have a good grade of Simonis cloth, not some nappy cheap felt. The rails play good, the pockets are tight enough, no longer the "5-gallon buckets" Mr. Reynolds says were common on old Valley bar tables. In general, the Diamond tables being newer, the balls will be newer too.
I have recent experience with the older 7 foot tables - the two old Valley barboxes used to play our Wednesday night $5.00-entry 8-ball tournament at the local Eagle's Club are good examples. I would not wish them on anyone, pro or amateur, and they sure are not Diamonds nor ever will be. Those tables are real bar boxes, and deserve whatever denigration one could give to a bar table, but these are not the 7 footers used at the CSI tournaments in question.
I appreciate a CSI staffer taking time to respond to some of the posts in this AZB thread. It was worth my 20 minutes to listen to Mr. Reynolds and see their reasons for using 7 foot tables, not least of which is cost - a truckload of 7 footers is 40 tables; a truckload of 9 footers is about 19 tables. When shipping between 100 and 300 tables round trip those extra costs to ship 9 footers become significant.
I prefer watching pros play on 9 foot tables myself. I care not for 10 foot tables since I have never played on one myself. The idea of watching 14.1 or One Pocket on anything smaller than a 9 foot table seems ludicrous to me. But the future of American pool, if there is one, is league play, and the league table of the future is the Diamond 7 foot table.
I would encourage anyone to listen to the American Billiard Radio comments and see if they agree or disagree with CSI's reasons for selecting 7 foot tables. I feel sure the 7 footers are here to stay, at least for certain CSI events.
Ozzie Osbourne Reynolds of CSI makes their case for using 7 foot tables, and his points seem to me to be good ones. Unfortunately, the interviewer is not so good, barely letting his inteviewee get a word in edgewise, but in any case Mr. Reynolds responses start at about 32:30 and continue for about another 20 minutes on American Billiard Radio here:
http://www.americanbilliardradio.com/
My understanding of what he is saying:
Mr. Reynolds says they forbid staff to use the terms bar table or bar box except when referring to the company sponsored event of that title. The reasoning is that Diamond 7 foot tables are not your grandpa's bar box.
Today's 7 foot tables, the ones many fast becoming industry standard, no longer use those wobbly magnetic-core cue balls, nor the oversize cue balls. The tables have a good grade of Simonis cloth, not some nappy cheap felt. The rails play good, the pockets are tight enough, no longer the "5-gallon buckets" Mr. Reynolds says were common on old Valley bar tables. In general, the Diamond tables being newer, the balls will be newer too.
I have recent experience with the older 7 foot tables - the two old Valley barboxes used to play our Wednesday night $5.00-entry 8-ball tournament at the local Eagle's Club are good examples. I would not wish them on anyone, pro or amateur, and they sure are not Diamonds nor ever will be. Those tables are real bar boxes, and deserve whatever denigration one could give to a bar table, but these are not the 7 footers used at the CSI tournaments in question.
I appreciate a CSI staffer taking time to respond to some of the posts in this AZB thread. It was worth my 20 minutes to listen to Mr. Reynolds and see their reasons for using 7 foot tables, not least of which is cost - a truckload of 7 footers is 40 tables; a truckload of 9 footers is about 19 tables. When shipping between 100 and 300 tables round trip those extra costs to ship 9 footers become significant.
I prefer watching pros play on 9 foot tables myself. I care not for 10 foot tables since I have never played on one myself. The idea of watching 14.1 or One Pocket on anything smaller than a 9 foot table seems ludicrous to me. But the future of American pool, if there is one, is league play, and the league table of the future is the Diamond 7 foot table.
I would encourage anyone to listen to the American Billiard Radio comments and see if they agree or disagree with CSI's reasons for selecting 7 foot tables. I feel sure the 7 footers are here to stay, at least for certain CSI events.
Well just because Ozzy says so doesn't change the fact
That if you put lipstick on a pig , it's still a pig
And in this case it's a bar box tournament in everyone else's eyes
The fact is name US Open to even a moderately knoledgeable sports fans means the best players in the toughest conditions ,, that simply is not the case on a "Bar Box "
Regardless of what the previous small sample size tells you there's atleast a 1/2 dozen or better players who would have zero chance of winning on a 9ft or 10ft table that not only have a chance a couple of them could be considered favorites
That's not excatly what a U.S. Open was intended to be
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I know this is probably an impractical solution because they want the tournament to take place in the same place that the amateurs are playing, but to solve the problem of the shipping costs for the 9 footers they could just try to arrange a tournament at one of the major pool rooms in town- like Eberle's place "Best Billiards"- is that what it is called?
Clearly Ozzie and Mark can call it whatever they wish as they own the rights and they are running the tournament, but we all know that no U. S. Open in the history of pool has ever been played on bar boxes (and yes Ozzie I'm always going to call them bar boxes). I clearly agree with the lipstick on a pig comment made above.
however that doesn't solve the problem of them making next to no money if they do it that way. having it attached to the amateur event is gonna draw more spectators.
Ya ok believe that if you want I'm not buying it
As long as they don't get thier hands on the 9 ball and cut the nuts off that at least we will have one "Real" US Open a yr
Not buying that more spectators = more money for everyone involved? Seems perfectly logical to me. You physically can't fit as many people in a pool hall with good visibility as you can at a large venue.
No I'm not buying it's a loser on its own ,,
That's ok , if the want thier tournament to be a side show to the main event it's thiers to do so , I wonder what will happen first ,, the U.S. not having world class 9 ft players or the rest of the world changing over to "Bar Boxes "
I know where my cash is
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I think this bothers me more than any other development since I started following pool. I vehemently dislike the fact that most tournaments are alternate breaks these days, but I can live with it. This however, sucks. It may not be our event, but it is our sport. The idea of moving pro pool primarily to the bar box is disappointing to say the very least.
I understand there is a need promote the game and save money where possible, but this isn't it. At best you might get some momentary interest from some of the league players, but I doubt it will last. Without a tour or any infrastructure, there is nothing to follow. You need to be a connoisseur to keep up with professional pool since every tournament is streamed from a different website it seems.
Professionals are supposed to compete on equipment that tests their abilities, and competing on 7 foot tables is like having PGA events on local 6200 yard courses because amateurs can relate better to it.
I think it's a great idea to hold professional bar box tournaments in conjunction with league championships, it's a good promotional tool. But please don't dress it up as something it's not, and lets not replace major 9 foot events with bar box ones. They are an interesting change of pace for the season but if it were to be every event, it would be dreadfully boring.
I understand there is a need promote the game and save money where possible, but this isn't it. At best you might get some momentary interest from some of the league players, but I doubt it will last. Without a tour or any infrastructure, there is nothing to follow. You need to be a connoisseur to keep up with professional pool since every tournament is streamed from a different website it seems.
Professionals are supposed to compete on equipment that tests their abilities, and competing on 7 foot tables is like having PGA events on local 6200 yard courses because amateurs can relate better to it.
I think it's a great idea to hold professional bar box tournaments in conjunction with league championships, it's a good promotional tool. But please don't dress it up as something it's not, and lets not replace major 9 foot events with bar box ones. They are an interesting change of pace for the season but if it were to be every event, it would be dreadfully boring.
Oz makes good points that are relevant to amateur pool not pro pool - after CSI main client base is still amateurs
And it is bit harsh to say 007's bro, Mr Bond does not let interviewee talk much - that would be true of funnyman Mark C . Bond tries to ask and add certain "top things to consider in organising big tourneys" that interviewee may have missed out. For one I tot interviewee prioritising "Consistency" is paradoxical and contradictory since there was no consistency for last 3 years events
IMHO, most of the disagreements of 7ft v 9ft centres on amateur v pro
By and large , most responses here generally prefer that pros play 9ft. It could be semantics with the US Open name but most associate the name with pro pool and having pro pool on 7ft is taboo.
Since promoters have spoken, maybe ABR can next interview pro players on this topic in another episode. Would be good to hear from pros like Darren, Johnny
The admission is free, how will more spectators help to make money? And it won't matter much anyway, I was there for one of them, there were not many people watching the pros play, there are quite a few posts about these type of things, pro tournaments during league tournaments don't get a lot of spectators even if it's free to watch.
They had it as part of the BCAPL tournament in prior years also, they just had 9 footers there as well for the pro event.
Why don't we just get to the point: Pro pool in America is dead, buried and decaying. This is just the final shovel of dirt thrown on the grave.
I watched three YouTube videos this week. The first was Rodney playing Alex at Turning Stone in the finals. There were about 25 people (all of them 60 or older - many looking comatose) watching these two great players playing the finals. Wretchedly pathetic.
The second video was Efren playing some Chinese dude (who played a hell of a lot better than most of our Mosconi Cup team members by the way) in Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam. Those of you that remember marching around Vietnam will remember this place as Saigon. The stands were packed with young people enthusiastically watching these two great players play. They were really into it. It was broadcast in Chinese, Japanese or some other language I couldn't understand so I watched it with the sound off hoping that I could have watched this match with some American announcers but that's purely fantasy.
The third was the match put up on YouTube my a member here which started off with David Howard playing Mike Sigel. Held at Caesar's Palace both wearing tuxedos and they played for real prize money on ESPN. Glory days now only faint distant memories. Probably the saddest of them all.
If you want to watch good pro pool buy a plane ticket to Asia or Europe. Other than drunken Barry's annual festival of self-embarrassment there is simply no other choice.
Shoot it in the head. It's inhumane to let it suffer.
I watched three YouTube videos this week. The first was Rodney playing Alex at Turning Stone in the finals. There were about 25 people (all of them 60 or older - many looking comatose) watching these two great players playing the finals. Wretchedly pathetic.
The second video was Efren playing some Chinese dude (who played a hell of a lot better than most of our Mosconi Cup team members by the way) in Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam. Those of you that remember marching around Vietnam will remember this place as Saigon. The stands were packed with young people enthusiastically watching these two great players play. They were really into it. It was broadcast in Chinese, Japanese or some other language I couldn't understand so I watched it with the sound off hoping that I could have watched this match with some American announcers but that's purely fantasy.
The third was the match put up on YouTube my a member here which started off with David Howard playing Mike Sigel. Held at Caesar's Palace both wearing tuxedos and they played for real prize money on ESPN. Glory days now only faint distant memories. Probably the saddest of them all.
If you want to watch good pro pool buy a plane ticket to Asia or Europe. Other than drunken Barry's annual festival of self-embarrassment there is simply no other choice.
Shoot it in the head. It's inhumane to let it suffer.
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pretty sure you missed the point and the whole reason why people are upset...whoever lags the best wins imo