2015 US OPEN 10-BALL & 8-BALL CHAMPIONSHIPS! July 24-31, Las Vegas, NV!

[Cardigan Kid]

Badi's event was not a world championship, just the Ultimate 10-Ball Championships.

What do you mean by "a WPA blessing" for an event on 7-footers? Are you thinking of Matchroom's points events for qualifying for the Mosconi Cup team?

You are correct it was just ultimate but Badi was trying to get sanctioning and getting ignored (that's what I gathered from his letter), also just pointing out that 10 ball tourney was held on nine footers before, and it didnt pan out so well, so why will seven footer 10 ball tourney work this time?

And when I say WPA blessing, I dont see any warnings of stripping points from players who enter like they did with CWs tourney, so their silence must be a blessing in a way. Thats how I see it. But iMO the 9 foot tourney had more credibility to be labeled world chsmpionship.

 

[one stroke]

I think that the underlying point here is less about the money and more about the meaning behind the title itself.

Correct

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[Colonel]

I think that the underlying point here is less about the money and more about the meaning behind the title itself.

Exactly, poignant post

 

[Darkridder]

Wow.

Pool players really want it all huh?

 

[jojopiff]

Wow.

Pool players really want it all huh?

And then if/when this goes away altogether I'll ASSume that people will wonder why. I have no qualms with people disliking the title as a few others have mentioned but wanting the whole tourney to go away simply cause it's on a barbox is feigning outrage.

 

[AtLarge]

... And when I say WPA blessing, I dont see any warnings of stripping points from players who enter like they did with CWs tourney, so their silence must be a blessing in a way. Thats how I see it. But iMO the 9 foot tourney had more credibility to be labeled world chsmpionship.

They are completely different situations. CW was going to call his event a world championship, a continuation of a series of Women's World 10-Ball Championships, when it did not meet WPA standards and did not have the WPA's blessing. The two upcoming CSI events are not being called world championships, have never been presented that way, and have nothing to do with the WPA.

 

[lfigueroa]

To each their own. While I agree I'd rather see pro's playing on 9' or 10' tables, I'd much rather see them play something, rather than nothing. No matter how much we all want to see them play the toughest game on the toughest equipment, if it's not cost feasible, then it simply cannot happen and I won't fault CSI or anyone for not doing so.

As a 34 year old growing up in Colorado, bar boxes have been prevalent in my time playing pool (13 years) so I can watch pro's play bar box 8ball and appreciate the patterns they play for runouts and breakouts.

They can always play. Doesn't mean it should be called the US Open.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I think that the underlying point here is less about the money and more about the meaning behind the title itself.

For me, this is what's at the crux of the issue.

Hold the tournament. Have a nice prize fund. Save dough on not bringing in the 9 footers. But please don't call it the US Open.

Names have meaning. They bring with them history, tradition, and prestige. But after this there will not be enough record book asterisks to account for having held these events on bar tables. It is the dumbing down of American pool and there is no logic, no explanation, that can make it right.

CSI can do it, hold the event on any equipment they want -- they bought the rights to the names and they are the stewards of the event, the history, the tradition, and the prestige -- but it doesn't mean they should do this, IMO.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Cardigan Kid]

They are completely different situations. CW was going to call his event a world championship, a continuation of a series of Women's World 10-Ball Championships, when it did not meet WPA standards and did not have the WPA's blessing. The two upcoming CSI events are not being called world championships, have never been presented that way, and have nothing to do with the WPA.

Point taken. You are correct. I'm a goof.

Will you be keeping stats on this event and comparing them to other similar events on nine foot tables?
I'll be curious to see how it works out.

 

[manfromoz]

Why

Interesting conversations! Lol

 

[Mr. Bond]

For me, this is what's at the crux of the issue.

Hold the tournament. Have a nice prize fund. Save dough on not bringing in the 9 footers. But please don't call it the US Open.

Names have meaning. They bring with them history, tradition, and prestige. But after this there will not be enough record book asterisks to account for having held these events on bar tables. It is the dumbing down of American pool and there is no logic, no explanation, that can make it right.

CSI can do it, hold the event on any equipment they want -- they bought the rights to the names and they are the stewards of the event, the history, the tradition, and the prestige -- but it doesn't mean they should do this, IMO.

Lou Figueroa

Let's take the us open 8b, 9b, 10b ( and soon to be 1p) events and add the word "qualifiers" to the end of the name.

Then take the top ten from each group and hold the ultimate u.s. championship.

 

[AtLarge]

... Will you be keeping stats on this event and comparing them to other similar events on nine foot tables?
I'll be curious to see how it works out.

Yes, I hope to be able to do that.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Yes, I hope to be able to do that.

Not sure if you saw this post, or if you already do this?

I think a great stat to have (calling AtLarge) would be run out percentage when player comes to the table with an open shot.

Do it for both 8ball and 9ball on 7' and 9' matches, and compare the results.

 

[cleary]

For me, this is what's at the crux of the issue.

Hold the tournament. Have a nice prize fund. Save dough on not bringing in the 9 footers. But please don't call it the US Open.

Names have meaning. They bring with them history, tradition, and prestige. But after this there will not be enough record book asterisks to account for having held these events on bar tables. It is the dumbing down of American pool and there is no logic, no explanation, that can make it right.

CSI can do it, hold the event on any equipment they want -- they bought the rights to the names and they are the stewards of the event, the history, the tradition, and the prestige -- but it doesn't mean they should do this, IMO.

Lou Figueroa

Oh well, not your tournament.

 

[Nostroke]

Oh well, not your tournament.

Too deep for me to follow.

 

[one stroke]

For me, this is what's at the crux of the issue.

Hold the tournament. Have a nice prize fund. Save dough on not bringing in the 9 footers. But please don't call it the US Open.

Names have meaning. They bring with them history, tradition, and prestige. But after this there will not be enough record book asterisks to account for having held these events on bar tables. It is the dumbing down of American pool and there is no logic, no explanation, that can make it right.

CSI can do it, hold the event on any equipment they want -- they bought the rights to the names and they are the stewards of the event, the history, the tradition, and the prestige -- but it doesn't mean they should do this, IMO.

Lou Figueroa

When you think of a U.S. Open you think of a tough field on tough tables playing on a bar box is like Golfs US Open being played on a chip and putt course ,,

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[AtLarge]

I think a great stat to have (calling AtLarge) would be run out percentage when player comes to the table with an open shot.

Do it for both 8ball and 9ball on 7' and 9' matches, and compare the results.

To address your request, I went back through my data for 9 events from this year and last year. Unfortunately, all I have on 7-footers is this year's US Bar Table 8-Ball Championship. So the upcoming US Opens on 7-footers will provide some much-needed additional data for 7-footers.

Also, your request says "when the player comes to the table with an open shot." I think there is a bit of subjectivity in that, as one player might take the shot and another player might play safe. We could just eliminate the games where the player's first shot after the break was a safety. However, for the results below, I chose not to do that. Instead, I just calculated the run-out percentages after the break regardless of what shot was taken.

So the run-outs counted here are run-outs by the breaker after successful breaks (made at least one ball, no foul, legal break) and run-outs by the non-breaker after unsuccessful breaks (fouled, dry, or illegal breaks). ["Legal" here applies to the World 9-Ball and Chinese 8-Ball events, where at least 3 balls had to be pocketed or reach the head string for a legal break.]

As always, this applies only to the matches I watched from each event, not all of the matches in the events.

8-Ball On 7-foot Tables
• 2015 US Bar Table 8-Ball Championship -- Breaker 65% (64 of 98), Non-Breaker 54% (25 of 46), Combined 62% (89 of 144)

8-Ball on 9-Foot Tables
• 2015 World Chinese 8-Ball Masters -- Breaker 69% (50 of 72), Non-Breaker 48% (15 of 31), Combined 63% (65 of 103)
• 2015 Accu-Stats "Make It Happen" 8-Ball Invitational -- Breaker 69% (59 of 85), Non-Breaker 66% (21 of 32), Combined 68% (80 of 117)
• 2014 CSI Invitational 8-Ball Championship -- Breaker 77% (118 of 154), Non-Breaker 69% (44 of 64), Combined 74% (162 of 218)

9-Ball on 9-Foot Tables
• 2014 WPA World 9-Ball Championship -- Breaker 39% (89 of 226), Non-Breaker 55% (16 of 29), Combined 41% (105 of 255)
• Turning Stone XXIII 9-Ball Classic -- Breaker 35% (70 of 199), Non-Breaker 36% (46 of 127), Combined 36% (116 of 326)
• 2015 DCC 9-Ball -- Breaker 45% (46 of 102), Non-Breaker 28% (15 of 54), Combined 39% (61 of 156)

10-Ball on 9-Foot Tables
• 2014 CSI Invitational 10-Ball Championship -- Breaker 33% (49 of 150), Non-Breaker 40% (33 of 82), Combined 35% (82 of 232)

10-Ball on 10-Foot Tables
• 2015 DCC Diamond Bigfoot 10-Ball Challenge -- Breaker 33% (39 of 120), Non-Breaker 28% (35 of 123), Combined 30% (74 of 243)

 

[AtLarge]

To make a broad generalization from the data in the last post -- for those nine events, the percentage of the games for which the player who came to the table after the break proceeded to run out was approximately:

30% for 10-Ball on 10-footers,

35% for 10-Ball on 9-footers,

40% for 9-Ball on 9-footers,

70% for 8-Ball on 9-footers, and

62% for 8-Ball on 7-footers.

Note, however, that the strength of field for those USBTC matches was not as uniformly high as in the three 8-Ball events on 9-footers. So whether any real difference exists in the post-break run-out percentages for 8-Ball on 7's vs. 9's is still an open question for me.

 

[Bigtruck]

I will add that in the 3 Big Money 9 Ball events that were held on 7fts race to 21 winner breaks, the high run bonus was done in 2 of them.

Warren Kiamco won the first won with a 6 pack
Dennis Orcollo won the second with an 8 pack

To make a broad generalization from the data in the last post -- for those nine events, the percentage of the games for which the player who came to the table after the break proceeded to run out was approximately:

30% for 10-Ball on 10-footers,

35% for 10-Ball on 9-footers,

40% for 9-Ball on 9-footers,

70% for 8-Ball on 9-footers, and

62% for 8-Ball on 7-footers.

Note, however, that the strength of field for those USBTC matches was not as uniformly high as in the three 8-Ball events on 9-footers. So whether any real difference exists in the post-break run-out percentages for 8-Ball on 7's vs. 9's is still an open question for me.

 

[BeiberLvr]

To make a broad generalization from the data in the last post -- for those nine events, the percentage of the games for which the player who came to the table after the break proceeded to run out was approximately:

30% for 10-Ball on 10-footers,

35% for 10-Ball on 9-footers,

40% for 9-Ball on 9-footers,

70% for 8-Ball on 9-footers, and

62% for 8-Ball on 7-footers.

Note, however, that the strength of field for those USBTC matches was not as uniformly high as in the three 8-Ball events on 9-footers. So whether any real difference exists in the post-break run-out percentages for 8-Ball on 7's vs. 9's is still an open question for me.

With a large enough sample size, 8 ball will be pretty similar. It's the rotation games that I think will show the biggest difference.