WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

Sloppy Pockets said:
ENGLISH! arrived on the scene here very shortly before CJ changed his user name from "cjssecrets" and started posting in earnest about TOI and a host of other oddities. Only a coincidence, perhaps? I dunno, I always wondered if they were the same person. But nobody in their right mind(s) would do put up almost 20,000 posts in less than 3 years. Maybe he's "Bizarro CJ"?

EDIT: Just noticed he has posted in this thread 191 times already! He has also posted 191 times in the "Fear of Feel" thread. Interesting? Maybe.
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I just saw this for the first time! I received more evidence this week that some folks still believe I'M ENGLISH! So if I'm English and English is CJ than I, also, must be CJ. If anyone else out there is CJ too, please chime in. We'll get this all figured out!
 
His Boy Elroy said:
I just saw this for the first time! I received more evidence this week that some folks still believe I'M ENGLISH! So if I'm English and English is CJ than I, also, must be CJ. If anyone else out there is CJ too, please chime in. We'll get this all figured out!
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ENGLISH! and His Boy Elroy are not the same person, nor are they CJ.

Best,
Mike
 
They are certainly not the same person.....not even close.

Mikjary said:
ENGLISH! and His Boy Elroy are not the same person, nor are they CJ.

Best,
Mike
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ENGLISH sends me PMs and "His Boy Elroy" keeps me up to date on his pool progress via Email.

They are certainly not the same person.....not even close.
 
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When you pay attention around guys like this you'll often pick up key bits of wisdom,

To emphasize again, I wasn't the one that "invented" the hammer teaching method for the pool stroke. I also didn't "invent" the 'Touch of Inside' system OR the 'Three Part Pocket System' - these techniques were passed down for many years before me, I was just able to put them in a format to teach other players.....and now thousands around the world are benefiting and enjoying the game more due to improved performance and understanding.

I used to practice with Buddy Hall in Tampa Florida when we both lived there and he was always an inspiration.....at times I would try to imitate his stroke/grip/tempo and found out that it worked really well for Buddy and not so well for me....that's the issue, even though we all have common denominators in our games, we still have to find a way to do it our own way.

Buddy has shown me things and I've learned the same type things from Omaha John, Mike Lebron, Efren, Hopkins, David Howard, Earl Strickland, Jr. Weldon, Jersey Red, Eddie Taylor, Big John, Doug Smith, etc.

When you pay attention around guys like this you'll often pick up key bits of wisdom, especially if you know how to elicit it. Sometimes you can use it directly, and other times you have to tweak it a bit to conform to your own personal style....learning to improve is more of a journey than a destination....and just like travel broadens our horizons, so does understanding how others experience their personal reality, especially at the highest level.

We, that strive to discover the perfection in the game realize that we express ourselves through the game, AND the game {paradoxically} must express its self though us..... and this, in appearance is as unique as a fingerprint.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Dear Lord...This again? Congratulations, you guys have managed the incredible, making me hate both physics and pool, I didn't think it possible, but here it is.:rolleyes:

Is there ANYONE who can run 3 balls that does not know what is meant by "accellerating through the ball"? What possible misunderstanding can the constant harping on about this and tip contact times be saving us from? OK, OK, OK! We all get it! The cueball stays in contact wtih the tip for a short time. The cuestick decellerates when it hits the cueball. Must we really, constantly bring this up EVERY time we try to discuss pool technique? Maybe next time someone wants to say "accellerate through the ball", "hitting the ball with a level cue", "trying to prolong tip contact" etc the post can automatically be deleted and replaced with a link to Dr. Dave:rolleyes:. God forbid someone could use language that may be imprecise for the purpose of showing someone how to get more enjoyment out of a game...The point is that these are terms everyone can understand through their experience. If I were to just state the physical facts, it would offer no guidance to anyone about how to actually hit a ball. Jerk the cue, decellerate, don't follow through, it's all the same...Why even have a good stance or use wrist action at all.. It's all meaningless just wack the ball any kind of way...What you need is a radar gun, a high speed camera, lasers, mirrors. Forget about what you feel in your hands and see with your eyes, or at least don't try to describe it to anyone, someone might misunderstand you.

You know I generally skip the threads with pool physics, because I don't generally find that sort of technical discussions very helpful, rather the opposite. You know pivot lengths, throw measurements etc. Trying to consciously think about these things is a surefire way to miss IMHO: But then again I tend to stay out of those threads, because I don't want to sabotage them. If some guy wants to solve equations when he tries to make a spot shot with heavy inside, then that is his right (and downfall).

I don't think these constant interjections are meant to be helpful at all. I rather think they are meant to be disruptive and annoying. It's like the grammar Nazis gave up on grammar and became physics Nazis instead. That's just me though, I might be wrong about this.
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I totally agree! Knowing why a ball went into the pocket is meaningless, knowing how to put a ball into the pocket is priceless! The less you know why and the more you know how is the only pathway to success in this game.

I keep saying this but I guess nobody "gets" it...if every shot you had to make is a shot you have made many times before, you would no doubt make it again! There is NO larger margin of error then when there is no doubt!

When I used to teach I would ask a student, if you have missed a shot (in competition), how many times afterwards have you made THAT shot so you will never miss it again? Most people I see practicing, practice the shots they always make and never practice the shots they rarely make. Physics, knowledge, aiming "systems" do not make us better shooters! Time at the table and practicing with focus will make you a better shooter! There is simply NO replacement for it!
 
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cfrandy said:
I totally agree! Knowing why a ball went into the pocket is meaningless, knowing how to put a ball into the pocket is priceless! The less you know why and the more you know how is the only pathway to success in this game.

I keep saying this but I guess nobody "gets" it...if every shot you had to make is a shot you have made many times before, you would no doubt make it again! There is NO larger margin of error then when there is no doubt!

When I used to teach I would ask a student, if you have missed a shot (in competition), how many times afterwards have you made THAT shot so you will never miss it again? Most people I see practicing, practice the shots they always make and never practice the shots they rarely make. Physics, knowledge, aiming "systems" do not make us better shooters! Time at the table and practicing with focus will make you a better shooter! There is simply NO replacement for it!
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Do me a favor, Randy. Show me one post from any of the "physics guys" that has ever said you DON'T need practice time to improve.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Do me a favor, Randy. Show me one post from any of the "physics guys" that has ever said you DON'T need practice time to improve.
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Show me one post that does! I have better things to do then check every post on AZ! Besides, pocketing balls is NOT rocket science! You don't need to know physics to play pool!
 
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cfrandy said:
The less you know why and the more you know how is the only pathway to success in this game.
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It helps to know what can't be done.

Like levering down with your tip to make the CB go faster. Or increasing the contact dwell time by using specific strokes or hand positions. Or hitting the ball off center enough to seriously deflect it without actually spinning it. Or releasing more "kinetic energy" into the CB without increasing the cue speed. Or.....
 
BeiberLvr said:
Do me a favor, Randy. Show me one post from any of the "physics guys" that has ever said you DON'T need practice time to improve.
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Show me one Physics professor who was ever a world champion!

Time at the table trumps a lot of the school book pool, IMHO.

I played yesterday and just paid attention to what I was doing and shot lights out for most of the day. I was getting out from everywhere. I made a few errors, but was still playing at an A+ level, or above.

The ONLY thing I was doing was taking my time, maintaining a firm bridge hand, keeping a firm grip, keeping a firm stroke, and staying INSIDE on almost every shot. My "stunning" and "floating" was working extremely well.

Aloha.
 
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the ones that don't know this are oblivious, it's called being "willfully blind"

HawaiianEye said:
Show me one Physics professor who was ever a world champion!

Time at the table trumps a lot of the school book pool, IMHO.

Aloha.
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I've watched hundreds of players in the last year, and the ones that shine have one thing in common - it's not their position play, or even their knowledge of aiming.

They accelerate their strokes more effectively than the other players, it's precisely at the moment of contact. It's like the difference between cracking a whip and whipping a crack. ;) LoL :eek:



'the GAME is the teacher'
 
No worries mate.

You make a good point, that is, about those of you who already know what is and what can actually take place during a stroke. Seeing and reading redundant information can be irritable.

But there are those who don't know the facts and perhaps, less ambiguous statements should be made for those who are still learning about these things.

I actually like the science guys pointing out what is actually taking place rather than making statements that aren't really clear or true. It doesn't take any skin off my back if someone suggests a better way of explaining something about pool. (I'm not a science guy. :D)

There are many people that get added to this forum every week that can't run 3 balls, right now and it's not a bad idea that they know the facts.

I don't believe that the science behind pool has hurt my game at all. In fact, I believe it has enhanced it.

I'm with you about enjoying the game.

You may be right about the "interjections" being made in the forum being not so helpful, but I won't join your company just yet. It can be an irritant when someone corrects you or it can be an opportunity to learn or communicate better.

Sometimes when I teach pool, I say things many different ways, until the idea or technique hits home with the student and am always looking for clearer ways to say the same thing.

I'm sure there are many others that agree with you that grammar Nazis and physics Nazis are a pain for some. Me? I just like learning and sometimes sharing what I learn. :thumbup:

JoeyA


Straightpool_99 said:
Dear Lord...This again? Congratulations, you guys have managed the incredible, making me hate both physics and pool, I didn't think it possible, but here it is.:rolleyes:

Is there ANYONE who can run 3 balls that does not know what is meant by "accellerating through the ball"? What possible misunderstanding can the constant harping on about this and tip contact times be saving us from? OK, OK, OK! We all get it! The cueball stays in contact wtih the tip for a short time. The cuestick decellerates when it hits the cueball. Must we really, constantly bring this up EVERY time we try to discuss pool technique? Maybe next time someone wants to say "accellerate through the ball", "hitting the ball with a level cue", "trying to prolong tip contact" etc the post can automatically be deleted and replaced with a link to Dr. Dave:rolleyes:. God forbid someone could use language that may be imprecise for the purpose of showing someone how to get more enjoyment out of a game...The point is that these are terms everyone can understand through their experience. If I were to just state the physical facts, it would offer no guidance to anyone about how to actually hit a ball. Jerk the cue, decellerate, don't follow through, it's all the same...Why even have a good stance or use wrist action at all.. It's all meaningless just wack the ball any kind of way...What you need is a radar gun, a high speed camera, lasers, mirrors. Forget about what you feel in your hands and see with your eyes, or at least don't try to describe it to anyone, someone might misunderstand you.

You know I generally skip the threads with pool physics, because I don't generally find that sort of technical discussions very helpful, rather the opposite. You know pivot lengths, throw measurements etc. Trying to consciously think about these things is a surefire way to miss IMHO: But then again I tend to stay out of those threads, because I don't want to sabotage them. If some guy wants to solve equations when he tries to make a spot shot with heavy inside, then that is his right (and downfall).

I don't think these constant interjections are meant to be helpful at all. I rather think they are meant to be disruptive and annoying. It's like the grammar Nazis gave up on grammar and became physics Nazis instead. That's just me though, I might be wrong about this.
Click to expand...
 
HawaiianEye said:
Show me one Physics professor who was ever a world champion!

Time at the table trumps a lot of the school book pool, IMHO.

I played yesterday and just paid attention to what I was doing and shot lights out for most of the day. I was getting out from everywhere. I made a few errors, but was still playing at an A+ level, or above.

The ONLY thing I was doing was taking my time, maintaining a firm bridge hand, keeping a firm grip, keeping a firm stroke, and staying INSIDE on almost every shot. My "stunning" and "floating" was working extremely well.

Aloha.
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I'm afraid I can't take the time to debate with someone who isn't even intelligent enough to know what the debate is about
 
BeiberLvr said:
I'm afraid I can't take the time to debate with someone who isn't even intelligent enough to know what the debate is about
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I'm afraid you already took the time to put your two cents worth in. Thanks for the knowledge.

I can't take ANYONE seriously who goes by any name associated with Beiber.
 
2197 posts about wrists....really lol? Oops, I guess my post makes 2198 :grin:. I am glad I can enjoy this game and not worry about arguing over small details like this. I'm not saying it isn't important, but I would guess a very high percentage of people who have bad fundamentals have other things that can be corrected which will help a lot more than trying to change what they do with their wrist. I know what you do with your wrist is part of the overall stroke, but how many misses are contributed to "the wrist" by most (not all) players?

For example I could go through some great information from pool school (even though it may seem basic) and it will cover most of the process from start to finish on my stroke where I can analyze and correct most mistakes I am making (notice I said most not all). I would be willing to guess that very few of most shooters' mistakes do not come from doing something incorrectly with their wrist...or am I off basis with that statement??
 
CJ Wiley said:
I've watched hundreds of players in the last year, and the ones that shine have one thing in common - it's not their position play, or even their knowledge of aiming.

They accelerate their strokes more effectively than the other players, it's precisely at the moment of contact. It's like the difference between cracking a whip and whipping a crack. ;) LoL :eek:



'the GAME is the teacher'
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So, we mere mortals can't see what you are doing, even with a video camera and detailed analysis after the fact, but you can see that all the top players are accelerating precisely at the moment of contact just by watching with your naked eyes?

Are the eyes of a champion really any better than those of a banger? Hell, the banger spends a lot more time watching other guys play than the champion does.

Maybe the railbirds have the best eye for this kind of stuff. They do the most watching of all.
 
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