Preserving the angle

galipeau

galipeau

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am curious to see if anyone else uses English specifically to throw the object ball (with no cb contact to the rail). Is it measurable, or just a feel thing? To me, it's me of a feel shot, but if it preserves the angle for the next shot, I will usually use this technique.

I'm no 100 ball runner, so I thought I'd ask some of the better players. Anyone feel free to chime in.
 
Comes up pretty often when you need a little less/more cut when there's an obstruction between the cue-object ball. Outside cuts more, inside cuts less. Be aware of the deflection so you don't hit the obstruction. Disclaimer, I'm not a better player, but I found this is very handy to use.



galipeau said:
I am curious to see if anyone else uses English specifically to throw the object ball (with no cb contact to the rail). Is it measurable, or just a feel thing? To me, it's me of a feel shot, but if it preserves the angle for the next shot, I will usually use this technique.

I'm no 100 ball runner, so I thought I'd ask some of the better players. Anyone feel free to chime in.
Click to expand...
 
galipeau said:
I am curious to see if anyone else uses English specifically to throw the object ball (with no cb contact to the rail). Is it measurable, or just a feel thing? To me, it's me of a feel shot, but if it preserves the angle for the next shot, I will usually use this technique.

I'm no 100 ball runner, so I thought I'd ask some of the better players. Anyone feel free to chime in.
Click to expand...

I am the same way, and it is a feel thing for sure because each table is different. Even the same table is different day to day depending on the weather. I try to leave an angle on every shot unless the next shot dictates something else.
 
Circumstances in which I use english with little to no concern about english off a rail:

1) get a little extra cut (i.e. outside english) to pocket an OB. I guess the reverse can be said for inside english although I don't seem to use it that way very often.

2) bank shots; to cancel or add throw on the OB path off the rail. Oftentimes it's inside english when I need to tighten up the OB's angle. Used along with speed.

3) straightback, or nearly straightback, draw shot where I want to influence the CB's "backward" path. For me this is by minor amounts only since I'm not a power drawer.

4) Combo shots in which I want to make sure first ball doesn't throw the second ball.
 
I use the technique in some instances as stach and bdorman mentioned. For me, it's definitely a feel shot.
 
All good One Pocket players will use spin to make a ball off a rail (bank shot). This could be for various reasons like gaining position for the next shot, shooting around an obstruction, etc. In my case, and I'm sure many others as well, it's purely by feel. One that comes from experience.
Was this what you were referring to? :smile:
 
One example:

Let's say you need to get straight in on a ball to shoot an easy stop shot. Well you end up missing your leave and you end up with a slight angle. If you try a stop shot with a slight angle the cue ball will not stop. In order to stop the cue ball from running away you can hit the ball full(aiming to miss the pocket) and use outside english to throw the object ball into the pocket while stopping the cue ball.

Another example:

Let's say you're down on the end rail with nearly a straight in shot. You wanted more angle so you can run the cue ball back to the middle of the table for your next shot. You decide to shoot the shot at an angle (aiming to miss the pocket) and use inside english to throw the ball into the pocket and let the cue ball move up table as much as possible.
 
galipeau said:
I am curious to see if anyone else uses English specifically to throw the object ball (with no cb contact to the rail). Is it measurable, or just a feel thing? To me, it's me of a feel shot, but if it preserves the angle for the next shot, I will usually use this technique.

I'm no 100 ball runner, so I thought I'd ask some of the better players. Anyone feel free to chime in.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, especially in One Pocket if I get a funny angle or if I have to throw the ball in to make it, you can actually "slow throw" objects balls slight around each other as well.
 
Drop The Rock said:
Absolutely, especially in One Pocket if I get a funny angle or if I have to throw the ball in to make it, you can actually "slow throw" objects balls slight around each other as well.
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I have never seen someone make an object ball curve due to the way the cue ball strikes it (and before the object ball hits a cushion). Do you have an example shot?
 
lol, well you can tell who the old RSBers are.

Lou Figueroa
lots of stuff hashed out
a long time ago
in a place far
far away
 
Bob Jewett said:
I have never seen someone make an object ball curve due to the way the cue ball strikes it (and before the object ball hits a cushion). Do you have an example shot?
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Patrick Johnson said:
If you mean you can make the OB's path curve, I don't think that's possible.

pj
chgo

Oops... Bob beat me to it.
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lfigueroa said:
Not happening in real life.

Lou Figueroa
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So I shouldn't have used the word "curve" what I was referring to was the spin imparted on the object ball SLIGHTLY causing a DRIFT. Its a very minor affect similar to the the swerve that happens to the cue ball when using english. On old felt I have seen it happen on both banks and slow rolled shots where the object ball tends to die in the direction its spinning.

I don't remember if it was Dr. Dave who had a video up or someone else on YouTube but it existed. Trying to find it and I can't.
 
slach said:
Comes up pretty often when you need a little less/more cut when there's an obstruction between the cue-object ball. Outside cuts more, inside cuts less.
Click to expand...

First there is a mini-massé where you hit down on the CB at an offset to the center line, and the CB will arc towards the offset position. I can do 1/4 inch at close to 100%, 1/4 Ball diameter at 90%, 1/2 a ball diameter at 50%, I bank most things greater than 1/4 ball diameter.

Then there is pure Spin-Induced-Throw (SIT) where the CB rolls straight and the spin throws the OB in the opposite direction of the cue to CB impact. 1/4 diamond is fairly easy, 1/3 diamond of throw is about the best I can do. The trick, here, is to hit the CB softly with lots of side spin.

In the first (above) the CB actually takes a curved path.
In the second, the CB takes a straight path and the OB takes throw at the instant of contact.
 
"Throw" does not equal curve or "Masse". Maybe this distinction will help clarify what you mean.

I discovered this from playing one pocket, and after I saw a TAR interview with Ronnie Alcano. He said he would practice by clustering all 15 balls in the center of the table and running them off (as many as he can) without hitting the CB to the rail. When I tried this, it just came naturally as I was forced to use spin to throw the OB at certain times (for cut shots, not including banks). This was done primarily to preserve my angle for the next shot... and also because it was fun ;)

I think this is one of those more obscure parts of pool that nobody mentions when you're beginning. I was mainly curious to see if other players use it, and how often, etc..
 
galipeau said:
... I think this is one of those more obscure parts of pool that nobody mentions when you're beginning. ...
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Actually, I think it's a pretty standard technique that is even taught to beginners -- depending on the instructor. I think you'll find it in Martin and Byrne.... See pages 50/51 of Martin's "99 Critical Shots" for example.
 
ktrepal85 said:
One example:
Let's say you need to get straight in on a ball to shoot an easy stop shot. Well you end up missing your leave and you end up with a slight angle. If you try a stop shot with a slight angle the cue ball will not stop. In order to stop the cue ball from running away you can hit the ball full(aiming to miss the pocket) and use outside english to throw the object ball into the pocket while stopping the cue ball.
Click to expand...

Does this really work?
 
Dan White said:
Does this really work?
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Yes. It's pretty easy to show when the cue ball is close to the object ball. It's harder to show when the cue ball is more than a foot away from the object ball.

With inside english it's possible to make both the cue ball and the object ball move to the same side. (The object ball has to be close and the cut angle small.)
 
Bob Jewett said:
Yes. It's pretty easy to show when the cue ball is close to the object ball. It's harder to show when the cue ball is more than a foot away from the object ball.

With inside english it's possible to make both the cue ball and the object ball move to the same side. (The object ball has to be close and the cut angle small.)
Click to expand...

It's been awhile since I've played around with this. I always felt that the cue ball would throw in the opposite direction of the object ball and negate the purpose of hitting the shot full on. In other words, I thought that holding the cue ball from drifting with throw wasn't very effective.
 
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