Third party observation: no need to be so brash. You'll meet all types here, grow a skin, and have fun. Good shooting.
New Attitude: Action, Action, Action...
- Thread starter ktrepal85
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Third party observation: no need to be so brash. You'll meet all types here, grow a skin, and have fun. Good shooting.
Im saying try to have fun on your new journey of playing for money. I hope you find lots of fish.
Thank you sir! Same to you too!
ElCorazonFrio
Banned
I remember when I was fifteen, my parents were angry at me, they kept pushing me to do better in school, work more, spend more time swimming, read more and study things I was interested in. They kept pushing me to help other people. My teachers were pushing me, my coach was pushing me, everybody was telling me I wasn't doing well enough.
I was feeling really badly about it and was talking to my highschool advanced math teacher about it (one of the people whom I trusted most). He laughed at me. Laughed at this stressed-out little kid who didn't think he could please anyone.
He said: D, you don't realize something. Every one of these people pushes you because of one simple fact: They care enough to have expectations. The expectations that these people have are because they have seen you do well and want you to be better.
How horrible would it be if we didn't have someone who pushes us to be better?
Now you know how it feels to be attacked a little lol. The point, which is not the case for me and it doesn't sounds like it for you, is that many a pool player uses the money or lack thereof as an excuse as to why they played well or didn't. "I play lazy if its isn't for money" "I play better when there is money on the line." Most people STOP improving by relying to heavily on this concept. Sure, the pros got a little better because of this but most of them put 8-12 hours in on the table and they shoot the same shots over and over and over. There are 3 different types of players out there: money, tournament, and the the guy who can do both. I have seen a couple seasoned pros that are considered champs play like dog shit with money on the line. I know some stone cold gamblers that don't play well in tournaments. Then there are the true champions. In a round about way El is referring to how many pool players either limit themselves or make excuses for themselves and the "playing for money" thing gets thrown around a lot.
I'm not much of a gambler anymore. But I agree with your logic. All the best players I know have always had a lot of gamble in them. The extra pressure of gambling forces you to concentrate harder than you would playing for nothing. That deeper level of concentration will fuel faster learning.
Here's my two cents worth though: very few players have the same amount of gamble in them. I predict most of your games will be against someone who is more than 50% sure you're the underdog. As such, you're probably going to book more losers than winners. But if you're only playing for 20 or 30 bucks, you can chalk the loss up to entertainment...no different than the cost of a day of golf. Just don't become anyone's fish. Unscrew when you recognize you're in a bad game and don't go off for 10 bets.
Here's my two cents worth though: very few players have the same amount of gamble in them. I predict most of your games will be against someone who is more than 50% sure you're the underdog. As such, you're probably going to book more losers than winners. But if you're only playing for 20 or 30 bucks, you can chalk the loss up to entertainment...no different than the cost of a day of golf. Just don't become anyone's fish. Unscrew when you recognize you're in a bad game and don't go off for 10 bets.
If your not trying to win the money, dont play. If you get 'comfortable' losing money,
you're in the wrong game ( play for fun ).Show me a 'good loser' and I'll show you
someone who loses most of the time ( a sucker ). 'You Must play better players to
get better' was proposed by 'better players' to take your money. It does you no
good to sit and watch the other guy beat you.Watch better players. See what they do,
you can watch for free!
If you want to bet your money, learn how to 'match up'. Making a 'fair' game means
that the game is close, but you have an 'edge'. If you keep taking 'the worst of it',
you will stop playing. Nobody likes to lose,lose,lose.
Good luck. You will need it
ps
I've never met a good player that didn't 'hate' to lose, whether they showed it or not!
you're in the wrong game ( play for fun ).Show me a 'good loser' and I'll show you
someone who loses most of the time ( a sucker ). 'You Must play better players to
get better' was proposed by 'better players' to take your money. It does you no
good to sit and watch the other guy beat you.Watch better players. See what they do,
you can watch for free!
If you want to bet your money, learn how to 'match up'. Making a 'fair' game means
that the game is close, but you have an 'edge'. If you keep taking 'the worst of it',
you will stop playing. Nobody likes to lose,lose,lose.
Good luck. You will need it
ps
I've never met a good player that didn't 'hate' to lose, whether they showed it or not!
At he senior center, we play for pride.
The most consistent winner, hates to lose and will do almost anything to win.
The rest of us just enjoy playing and like to win.
My next goal is to be the most consistent winner by October but I plan to do it by improving my consistency, I already posses the skills and knowledge.
Some days I'm the lion, other days I'm the folder
2strong4u
Banned
This is nothing but foolish thinking. Gambling will perhaps teach you to be a better gambler...it will NOT teach you to be a better player...something taking a professional lesson will do.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Having to bear down and win for the money doesn't improve focus? Playing for money doesn't make for a more seasoned player?
If your opponent is on the hill and you ned 3 or 4 games which tests you more? Playing for 500 or playing for table time? There's obviously a world of difference.
Ohio you keep at it. You'll find the more you are in action ,the more you'll want to improve. You may start to travel to events and matchup with regional players with reputations. You aren't far from DCC. A whole world opens up. You learn about your limits and abilities.
2strong4u
Banned
Dude we are hitting a ball with a stick into another ball so it goes in a hole. It would be foolish not to bet something. Otherwise its,just a waste of time!
Good luck to the OP. You might want to read up on extrinsic and intrinsic motivation, though. All the "gambling guys" I've known (i gamble myself, but only occationally and for small sums) end up being bored with the game. Read the posts saying playing without something on the line is a "waste of time". Basically pool has become a chore and a vehicle for their greed. They no longer get any pleasure from playing the game without gambling, and when gambling the stakes must be ever higher for them to be interested. That is where you are headed. If you are ok with that, by all means, go ahead.
http://psychology.about.com/od/eindex/f/extrinsic-motivation.htm
http://psychology.about.com/od/eindex/f/extrinsic-motivation.htm
ElCorazonFrio
Banned
Hmmm, waste of time?
I do something that I enjoy that helps me relieve stress. I build my concentration while playing (without needing to bet to do it).
If anything, I think that pool is cheapened by betting. I don't put a price on my enjoyment.
Absolutely...but having a stroke you can trust is most important in the process of being able to "bear down". Focus happens to be an extremely important part of the stroke process. Playing for money rather than investing in a more accurate and repeatable stroke is, imo, an exercise in futility...and at best prolongs a player's opportunity to significantly improve.
...and 2strong4u...I made my living gambling for more than a decade, so I know how things work. The OP obviously does not possess the repeatable stroke he would like. That is obvious from his threads and posts. I certainly agree that the DCC would be a great learning experience for him. My job is helping people manage their "limits" and "increase their abilities".
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
...and 2strong4u...I made my living gambling for more than a decade, so I know how things work. The OP obviously does not possess the repeatable stroke he would like. That is obvious from his threads and posts. I certainly agree that the DCC would be a great learning experience for him. My job is helping people manage their "limits" and "increase their abilities".
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
I was going to make a long post about this subject, buy you are a prime example of why one should play for money IMO. But, it has to be enough to hurt, not still be fun losing.
One can get very comfortable losing all the time to a better player. After all, they expect to lose going in. So, no surprise when they do lose. Even if one has the knowledge to improve, until there is an actual incentive to improve, they won't. You are the prime example of that.
Why didn't you incorporate what Scott taught you? Because you were comfortable losing and didn't have the incentive to put in the work. If one keeps losing, only three things can happen...1. They learn to become losers. 2. They get tired of losing and quit playing that person. 3. They accept that they have to change what they are doing to get better so they can eventually beat the person that has been beating them with no mercy.
Number three can slap you right up the side of the head and give you the incentive to put in the work to actually improve. Everyone wants to play better than they do, but few are willing to do what it takes. Often, a financial stake in the game will give one the incentive to do the work required.
Now, no one is saying to go play that A player when one is still a D player for money every day, and by osmosis you will improve. (anyone that does think that way is very misquided) But, go find someone near your level but better than you.
What I used to do is this- I would find as much easy action as possible. (rarely does one find easy action, it's like winning the lottery) 90% of my action was with "equal" players. Meaning, win today, lose tomorrow, ect. I would then take some of my winnings (not all, that's for suckers) and go play someone really good. Then I would incorporate what I learned into my game so I could win more often against my usual opponents.
I found I would pay a lot more attention to detail when playing a much better opponent than if I just watched him. It's really not the same thing. You can watch someone play, and learn a lot. But, when it is you involved in the game, it is a whole different level of experience and learning. You then really start to see things for what they are, why he did it, and how it made you feel and react.
So, does one need to gamble to improve? Of course not for some. Look no further than Thorsten Holmann. But, for the vast majority of us, when utilized properly, it can give a great incentive to actually do what is necessary to improve.
Well, I guess it got long anyways.
That may very well be true for some, but certainly not all. Most likely, not even most. In my case, which I believe is rather common, it took a lot of work to get to the level I am at. It's not that I don't enjoy playing for free, I do it all the time in practice. It's just that after all the work I've done, I'd like some return for my work other than just ego.
The last part of your statement, where you state that the stakes have to keep going higher to get enjoyment, I think is strictly for the true gamblers, those that do it for the thrill and adrenaline rush, not for the money. They are a small, small portion of those that gamble at pool for money. They are the exception, not the norm. Exceptions should be used as a caution sign, not a stop sign.
One last thing about gambling, as Scott stated, gambling will not in and of itself make you a better player. It can add many good benefits for you, but none will be realized if you can't stroke straight and with repeatability. When it comes to finally actually working on your game, those two things have to come first. Without those two things, you are just a stick waving in the breeze, and you might as well go ahead and put a white flag on it.