Taiwanese are best rotation players on the planet

M

Mcdermott1981

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There has a been a huge debate for the last several years on which country produces the best pool players. The answer to this question is typically "The Philippines".

I tend to disagree. I believe the answer should be "Taiwan". At least for Rotation games.

In my opinion the best 10 ball players in the world are in no particular order: Ko Pin Yi, Shane Van Boening, Jung-Lin Chang, Yu-Lung Chang, Dennis Orcollo, Carlo Biado, Neils Feijen, Darren Appleton, Thorsten Hohmann and Alex Pagulayan.

On this list, I have (3) Taiwanese and (2) Filipinos. Alex is actually of Canadian status.

I have always believed the best way to compare players is by direct competition. The Ko brothers and Jung-Lin Chang dominated the CSI tournament last year with Ko beating Shane head to head and Chang beating Orcollo.

Even 10 years ago, Yang(Taiwanese) ,who was the best 9 ball player on the planet at that time, beat Orcollo 2 times in a row gambling.

Of course all of this my opinion, but I do believe it.

I would love to hear anybody's response to this argument.
 
Mcdermott1981 said:
There has a been a huge debate for the last several years on which country produces the best pool players. The answer to this question is typically "The Philippines".

I tend to disagree. I believe the answer should be "Taiwan". At least for Rotation games.

In my opinion the best 10 ball players in the world are in no particular order: Ko Pin Yi, Shane Van Boening, Jung-Lin Chang, Yu-Lung Chang, Dennis Orcollo, Carlo Biado, Neils Feijen, Darren Appleton, Thorsten Hohmann and Alex Pagulayan.

On this list, I have (3) Taiwanese and (2) Filipinos. Alex is actually of Canadian status.

I have always believed the best way to compare players is by direct competition. The Ko brothers and Jung-Lin Chang dominated the CSI tournament last year with Ko beating Shane head to head and Chang beating Orcollo.

Even 10 years ago, Yang(Taiwanese) ,who was the best 9 ball player on the planet at that time, beat Orcollo 2 times in a row gambling.

Of course all of this my opinion, but I do believe it.

I would love to hear anybody's response to this argument.
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I agree.... Taiwanese are monsters... The only thin I would add to the list is the young gun pinoys ... DeLuna , Ignacio and bubwit chua....and of course, don't forget little ko..
 
It's close enough that nothing will be determined here for sure. If you go by World Champions and you count 'Europe'-they win.
 
My only reply to that is "Europe" is a continent, not a country. Big difference there.

That is why I have always felt that the Mosconi Cup was not played on even grounds. You have a continent against one country. Give us Canada too and we will make things more competitive.
 
Dutch and German players?

Mcdermott1981 said:
There has a been a huge debate for the last several years on which country produces the best pool players. The answer to this question is typically "The Philippines".

I tend to disagree. I believe the answer should be "Taiwan". At least for Rotation games.

In my opinion the best 10 ball players in the world are in no particular order: Ko Pin Yi, Shane Van Boening, Jung-Lin Chang, Yu-Lung Chang, Dennis Orcollo, Carlo Biado, Neils Feijen, Darren Appleton, Thorsten Hohmann and Alex Pagulayan.

On this list, I have (3) Taiwanese and (2) Filipinos. Alex is actually of Canadian status.

I have always believed the best way to compare players is by direct competition. The Ko brothers and Jung-Lin Chang dominated the CSI tournament last year with Ko beating Shane head to head and Chang beating Orcollo.

Even 10 years ago, Yang(Taiwanese) ,who was the best 9 ball player on the planet at that time, beat Orcollo 2 times in a row gambling.

Of course all of this my opinion, but I do believe it.

I would love to hear anybody's response to this argument.
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Well i agree but there are a lot very good players at money games in Holland and Germany.It would be interesting a money game between Ko brothers or Fu Chei Wei ,Lung Chang and Ralf ,Filler,Zombrekis or Van de Berg.And do not forget the British Darren,Mark .Anyway in your 10best i d add Shaw and Drago when it come to money game(20k or more sets.....)
 
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I don't know if you're familiar with Fargorate, but here are their top 15, followed by their country and their Fargorate scores. You see a good mix of China and Taiwan with the Philippines, plus Shane, Neils, and Nick Van Den Berg from the Nether regions. I've never understood why Taiwanese players are given 'Taipei' (TPE) as their country when it's actually a city, but I assume it has something to do with the politics of Taiwan and China.

Jiaqing Wu CHN829
Shane Van Boening USA824
Yu Lung Chang TPE813
Niels Feijen NED811
Dennis Orcollo PHI807
Carlo Biado PHI800
Lee Van Corteza PHI800
Nick Van Den Berg NED799
Jung Lin Chang TPE798
Johann Gonzales Chua PHI797
Antonio Lining PHI797
Mike Dechaine USA796
Ching-Shun Yang TWN794
Lo Li Wen TPE793
Francisco Bustamante PHI793
 
Mcdermott1981 said:
There has a been a huge debate for the last several years on which country produces the best pool players. The answer to this question is typically "The Philippines".

I tend to disagree. I believe the answer should be "Taiwan". At least for Rotation games.

In my opinion the best 10 ball players in the world are in no particular order: Ko Pin Yi, Shane Van Boening, Jung-Lin Chang, Yu-Lung Chang, Dennis Orcollo, Carlo Biado, Neils Feijen, Darren Appleton, Thorsten Hohmann and Alex Pagulayan.

On this list, I have (3) Taiwanese and (2) Filipinos. Alex is actually of Canadian status.

I have always believed the best way to compare players is by direct competition. The Ko brothers and Jung-Lin Chang dominated the CSI tournament last year with Ko beating Shane head to head and Chang beating Orcollo.

Even 10 years ago, Yang(Taiwanese) ,who was the best 9 ball player on the planet at that time, beat Orcollo 2 times in a row gambling.

Of course all of this my opinion, but I do believe it.

I would love to hear anybody's response to this argument.
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Meanwhile there are 4-5 Filipinos who can't get visas that most people don't even know about. Ever heard of Jeffery Ignacio? Honestly I think its even money between the Taiwanese and Filipinos and since we are talking about ROTATION I'll be on a Flip play full rack rotation every single time. Especially without Jump Cues.

Then you have Lee Van Corteza who got all the way to 5th in the Men's China Open and 2nd at DCC 10Ball while and Ignacio and Alex got 3-4. Johann Chua plays sporty too and Warren Kiamco won the DCC 9 ball and got 5th in world 10 ball. Also, Jeff De Luna is one of the biggest sleepers out there and probably has the hardest break of anybody alive. Braga, Joven Bustamante, I admire the Taiwanese but in my opinion its way too close to call. Btw if you are going to argue for the Taiwanese but not mention Chin-Shung Yang as a current fave, I dont even know what you are doin!
 
I respect what you are saying Rock, but I have not heard of Chin-Shung Yang playing a competitive match in 5 years. I did say earlier in my post that 10 years ago, I thought he was the best 9 ball player alive. I have never seen Yang play 10 ball.
 
Mcdermott1981 said:
There has a been a huge debate for the last several years on which country produces the best pool players. The answer to this question is typically "The Philippines".

I tend to disagree. I believe the answer should be "Taiwan". At least for Rotation games.

In my opinion the best 10 ball players in the world are in no particular order: Ko Pin Yi, Shane Van Boening, Jung-Lin Chang, Yu-Lung Chang, Dennis Orcollo, Carlo Biado, Neils Feijen, Darren Appleton, Thorsten Hohmann and Alex Pagulayan.

On this list, I have (3) Taiwanese and (2) Filipinos. Alex is actually of Canadian status.

I have always believed the best way to compare players is by direct competition. The Ko brothers and Jung-Lin Chang dominated the CSI tournament last year with Ko beating Shane head to head and Chang beating Orcollo.

Even 10 years ago, Yang(Taiwanese) ,who was the best 9 ball player on the planet at that time, beat Orcollo 2 times in a row gambling.

Of course all of this my opinion, but I do believe it.

I would love to hear anybody's response to this argument.
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I would say that is true to an extent- may be more true few years ago than now.
cos I see their pipeline of young players drying out- they used to dominate the World Junior Championships which produced most of their stellar talents. Also pool is much less crowd attraction compared to years ago. They have at least half dozen in top tier and probably another dozen or so in lower tiers (older guys like double WC finalists Kuo and Fu, Wang Hung Hsiang, Japan based Lo Li Wen and others like Liu Cheng Chieh, Wu Kun Lin ). There used to be Asian tour almost 10 years ago that sustained number of them and keep pipeline going but not nowadays. I would say in another 5 years, their won't be many of them at top (future World Champion lil Ko should still be around)

I would saying the biggest pipeline of future talents is yes Philippines.
One only has to look at the recently editions of MP Cups and W10B held in past 1-2 years to see the ridiculous depth of talent. Plenty of monsters, a few dozen at least that I have never heard of. Most play at a very high level, many are at least 3rd tier (World Class)
Only thing I know is their names usually end with vowels :D
 
Mcdermott1981 said:
I respect what you are saying Rock, but I have not heard of Chin-Shung Yang playing a competitive match in 5 years. I did say earlier in my post that 10 years ago, I thought he was the best 9 ball player alive. I have never seen Yang play 10 ball.
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5th at world 10 ball. Players like him and Kiamco just go to show you can't forget about the vets. Between two countries though Taiwan and the Philipines are the strongest by far.
 
Drop The Rock said:
5th at world 10 ball. Players like him and Kiamco just go to show you can't forget about the vets. Between two countries though Taiwan and the Philipines are the strongest by far.
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Yang is past his prime but still a force to be reckon with now shows his high speed in his prime. So no he will not mentioned as one of the top Taiwanese players now. He probably goes fishing more nowadays. Sad but true. :D
 
Mcdermott1981 said:
My only reply to that is "Europe" is a continent, not a country. Big difference there.

That is why I have always felt that the Mosconi Cup was not played on even grounds. You have a continent against one country. Give us Canada too and we will make things more competitive.
Click to expand...

"Even grounds," sir/maam?

With all due respect, no one was complaining when the U.S. was winning practically every
year during the first years of the competition.

Times change, cycles come and go.

I think the U.S. (many-a-fan, not necessarily you, McDermott) just has to toughen up and ride this storm out and quit acting as if they
are entitled. I think that's why we got rid of the "older" players and Mark created a
new standard of teamwork and discipline. Go U.S.A.!!
 
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Not having read any of the replies I will say that they are all so close, I wouldn't want to bet my life on the difference.




Mcdermott1981 said:
There has a been a huge debate for the last several years on which country produces the best pool players. The answer to this question is typically "The Philippines".

I tend to disagree. I believe the answer should be "Taiwan". At least for Rotation games.

In my opinion the best 10 ball players in the world are in no particular order: Ko Pin Yi, Shane Van Boening, Jung-Lin Chang, Yu-Lung Chang, Dennis Orcollo, Carlo Biado, Neils Feijen, Darren Appleton, Thorsten Hohmann and Alex Pagulayan.

On this list, I have (3) Taiwanese and (2) Filipinos. Alex is actually of Canadian status.

I have always believed the best way to compare players is by direct competition. The Ko brothers and Jung-Lin Chang dominated the CSI tournament last year with Ko beating Shane head to head and Chang beating Orcollo.

Even 10 years ago, Yang(Taiwanese) ,who was the best 9 ball player on the planet at that time, beat Orcollo 2 times in a row gambling.

Of course all of this my opinion, but I do believe it.

I would love to hear anybody's response to this argument.
Click to expand...
 
boogeyman said:
"Even grounds," sir/maam?

With all due respect, no one was complaining when the U.S. was winning practically every
year during the first years of the competition.

Times change, cycles come and go.

I think the U.S. (many-a-fan, not necessarily you, McDermott) just has to toughen up and ride this storm out and quit acting as if they
are entitled. I think that's why we got rid of the "older" players and Mark created a
new standard of teamwork and discipline. Go U.S.A.!!
Click to expand...

Good post. If U.S.A give up it will be remembered as they had yo have whole continent as handicap. Europe was early just test dummy to U.S but they just tried to do little better every year.. And U.S.A skill went downhill same time. Nowadays situation is sum of past it will go more even again if U.S.A just get better.

Btw I recently watched interview of Mark Wilson and he was worried that matchroom sport could ditch U.S.A from Mosconi cup and make Europe vs Asia instead... I think he is could be right. If U.S.A get trashed it might make Matchroom thinking..
 
Mcdermott1981 said:
There has a been a huge debate for the last several years on which country produces the best pool players. The answer to this question is typically "The Philippines".

I tend to disagree. I believe the answer should be "Taiwan". At least for Rotation games.

In my opinion the best 10 ball players in the world are in no particular order: Ko Pin Yi, Shane Van Boening, Jung-Lin Chang, Yu-Lung Chang, Dennis Orcollo, Carlo Biado, Neils Feijen, Darren Appleton, Thorsten Hohmann and Alex Pagulayan.

On this list, I have (3) Taiwanese and (2) Filipinos. Alex is actually of Canadian status.

I have always believed the best way to compare players is by direct competition. The Ko brothers and Jung-Lin Chang dominated the CSI tournament last year with Ko beating Shane head to head and Chang beating Orcollo.

Even 10 years ago, Yang(Taiwanese) ,who was the best 9 ball player on the planet at that time, beat Orcollo 2 times in a row gambling.

Of course all of this my opinion, but I do believe it.

I would love to hear anybody's response to this argument.
Click to expand...

Time will only tell.

Will Taiwan produce a player that dominates the game while leaving a mark on it forever in the way Efren Reyes did? Until that happens, Philippines in my opinion, will be the rotation capitol of the world.

There is a lot of talk about the Ko brothers who are outstanding players, but how will a five year window look for them? Any US Opens or WPA championships? How about World Pool Masters or World Cup of Pool? Certainly if the Ko brothers or fellow Taiwanese players take some of these big trophies down, your argument has much more merit.

A great telling will be this year's US Open, which has a host of Taiwanese players making the trip.
 
Cardigan Kid said:
Time will only tell.

Will Taiwan produce a player that dominates the game while leaving a mark on it forever in the way Efren Reyes did? Until that happens, Philippines in my opinion, will be the rotation capitol of the world.

There is a lot of talk about the Ko brothers who are outstanding players, but how will a five year window look for them? Any US Opens or WPA championships? How about World Pool Masters or World Cup of Pool? Certainly if the Ko brothers or fellow Taiwanese players take some of these big trophies down, your argument has much more merit.

A great telling will be this year's US Open, which has a host of Taiwanese players making the trip.
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Ko Pin Yi won the WPA 10 ball last year. He also has an All Japan title and a Guiness World Series of Pool title.

Not to mention their domination of the CSI event last year.
 
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If we count full rack rotation as a "rotation game," then it's not even close. Philippines reign.

9 ball/10 ball, I see like this:

- Pristine tournament conditions, magic rack, race no longer than 13, Taiwanese are the favorite.

- Regular pool room conditions (older cloth, wooden racks, longer races), Filipinos are the favorite.
 
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