Taiwanese are best rotation players on the planet

[Masayoshi]

To try to make your point you conveniently left out this part of my post...


"Back to the threads point of Taiwanese best rotation players....not just Ko but all the other Taiwan players....they are gonna have to start winning majors before they can overtake phillipines."

Nothing worse than deleting words to try to brow beat.
And yes, Efren is fair game when debating which country has produced better rotation players.

Also, I never said Ko was bad (yet another misguided tactic to try to prove a point). How he performs at WPA 9-ball and US Open this year will tell a lot. And we shall wait and see.

World champions for the last 10 years,

9 Ball:
PHI - 1
TPE - 1

10 Ball

PHI - 0
TPE - 1

8 Ball

PHI - 2
TPE - 2

If you bring it down to non world championship majors, then you have:

All Japan
PHI - 3
TPE - 4

US Open
PHI - 1 (if you count Alex)
TPE - 0

China Open
PHI - 2
TPE - 2

 

[Cardigan Kid]

World champions for the last 10 years,

9 Ball:
PHI - 1
TPE - 1

10 Ball

PHI - 0
TPE - 1

8 Ball

PHI - 2
TPE - 2

If you bring it down to non world championship majors, then you have:

All Japan
PHI - 3
TPE - 4

US Open
PHI - 1 (if you count Alex)
TPE - 0

China Open
PHI - 2
TPE - 2

Thanks for the added info.

Clearly, even in recent years by the info you posted, Taiwan doesn't dominate over Philippines.
This is the crux of the debate in this thread. It isn't as clear as some want to believe.

 

[Nostroke]

World champions for the last 10 years,

9 Ball:
PHI - 1
TPE - 1

10 Ball

PHI - 0
TPE - 1

8 Ball

PHI - 2
TPE - 2

If you bring it down to non world championship majors, then you have:

All Japan
PHI - 3
TPE - 4

US Open
PHI - 1 (if you count Alex)
TPE - 0

China Open
PHI - 2
TPE - 2

Why is 8 Ball included if the question is on rotation games?

 

[Celtic]

"Even grounds," sir/maam?

With all due respect, no one was complaining when the U.S. was winning practically every
year during the first years of the competition.

Times change, cycles come and go.

Yeah, let's be real.

The thing that changed is that Europeans started playing actual pool and the USA eventually had to play pros who actually play rotation pool instead of snooker players who played in the Mosconi Cup as a lark.

Try not to pull a muscle patting yourself on the back for the distant past when you dominated a bunch of players that did not even play pro pool...

 

[Thomas McKane]

Your data set is too small to make this supposition. If you include the top 50 players, by country of origin, the Philippines easily win.

http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/Rankings

There has a been a huge debate for the last several years on which country produces the best pool players. The answer to this question is typically "The Philippines".

I tend to disagree. I believe the answer should be "Taiwan". At least for Rotation games.

In my opinion the best 10 ball players in the world are in no particular order: Ko Pin Yi, Shane Van Boening, Jung-Lin Chang, Yu-Lung Chang, Dennis Orcollo, Carlo Biado, Neils Feijen, Darren Appleton, Thorsten Hohmann and Alex Pagulayan.

On this list, I have (3) Taiwanese and (2) Filipinos. Alex is actually of Canadian status.

I have always believed the best way to compare players is by direct competition. The Ko brothers and Jung-Lin Chang dominated the CSI tournament last year with Ko beating Shane head to head and Chang beating Orcollo.

Even 10 years ago, Yang(Taiwanese) ,who was the best 9 ball player on the planet at that time, beat Orcollo 2 times in a row gambling.

Of course all of this my opinion, but I do believe it.

I would love to hear anybody's response to this argument.

 

[Nostroke]

Last I knew he had dual citizenship.

 

[Mcdermott1981]

Once again, just my opinion, but I believe that Ko Pin Yi is currently the best 10 ball player in the world and I believe Jun Ling Chang is the best 9 ball player.

I definitely agree from top to bottom, the Philippines have more top tier players. But I also believe that the top 3 from Taiwan would beat the top 3 from the Philippines in a long race format.

 

[Masayoshi]

Thanks for the added info.

Clearly, even in recent years by the info you posted, Taiwan doesn't dominate over Philippines.
This is the crux of the debate in this thread. It isn't as clear as some want to believe.

I don't think anybody said they dominate the Philippines, but they do edge them out.

 

[Masayoshi]

Why is 8 Ball included if the question is on rotation games?

Well they have the same number, so it doesn't really make an impact.

 

[spartan]

To try to make your point you conveniently left out this part of my post...


"Back to the threads point of Taiwanese best rotation players....not just Ko but all the other Taiwan players....they are gonna have to start winning majors before they can overtake phillipines."

Nothing worse than deleting words to try to brow beat.
And yes, Efren is fair game when debating which country has produced better rotation players.

Also, I never said Ko was bad (yet another misguided tactic to try to prove a point). How he performs at WPA 9-ball and US Open this year will tell a lot. And we shall wait and see.

That is a bizarre and dumb accusation
Firstly, I quoted your whole post. It is not my fault if you post another 2nd post and my quote did not capture that 2nd post. You mean I have to quote every single related post you make in this thread or other threads or other forums also?
Secondly, I also do not not have to quote everything cos others do not need to see my quotes to read what you say.

I will not embarrass you further. And I would not waste my time arguing with a fool, no one would know the difference LOL

I don't think anybody said they dominate the Philippines, but they do edge them out.

True
Here is interesting analysis on lack of success of Filipinos in majors by Bob Guerrero , some time ESPN pool commentator
https://sg.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/t...-and-a-word-on-fitness-in-pool-044132700.html

:grin-square:

 

[Nostroke]

Well they have the same number, so it doesn't really make an impact.

That is true-I did note that but next thing you know someone else is saying "so and so won the Chinese 8 Ball" or the World Blackball. Including it can come to nothing positive.

 

[Kris_b1104]

That is true-I did note that but next thing you know someone else is saying "so and so won the Chinese 8 Ball" or the World Blackball. Including it can come to nothing positive.

What about the CSI US Open 10 Ball? Or USBTC? uttahere:

 

[Cardigan Kid]

That is a bizarre and dumb accusation
Firstly, I quoted your whole post. It is not my fault if you post another 2nd post and my quote did not capture that 2nd post. You mean I have to quote every single related post you make in this thread or other threads or other forums also?
Secondly, I also do not not have to quote everything cos others do not need to see my quotes to read what you say.

I will not embarrass you further. And I would not waste my time arguing with a fool, no one would know the difference LOL

now the name calling comes in along with the graphics - ha ha - very good entertainment!

Then comes the forum equivalent of running to the other side of the street to shout an insult because you don't want to face being held to task for said insult. Classic.

Even if others can't see them, I still get a good chuckle from your posts. :grin:

 

[spartan]

What about the CSI US Open 10 Ball? Or USBTC? uttahere:

Sorry those are 7ft kiddie tables which are for kids not adults LOL

 

[midnightpulp]

Yeah, let's be real.

The thing that changed is that Europeans started playing actual pool and the USA eventually had to play pros who actually play rotation pool instead of snooker players who played in the Mosconi Cup as a lark.

Try not to pull a muscle patting yourself on the back for the distant past when you dominated a bunch of players that did not even play pro pool...

Untrue (although you're probably being hyperbolic for the sake of banter), but the U.S. still dominated the Euros in the early and mid-00s, one time beating them 12-1. Those teams often had: Mika, Ralf, Thomas Engert, Marcus Chamat, Thorsten, Niels, Ortmann, Van De Berg, and Steve Knight. The only snooker first player who would tag along in those days was Steve Davis.

Pretty much the same guys that whoop us now, sans Appleton.

Pretty simple. Earl got older and more unstable, Johnny got older, Corey seemed to peak early (00s), and Rodney lost speed, as well. We needed 3 or 4 players of Shane's caliber to step into the Earl/Johnny/Prime Corey role for the next generation, but Shane has been the only one to carry that torch thus far.

 

[arps]

Once again, just my opinion, but I believe that Ko Pin Yi is currently the best 10 ball player in the world and I believe Jun Ling Chang is the best 9 ball player.

I definitely agree from top to bottom, the Philippines have more top tier players. But I also believe that the top 3 from Taiwan would beat the top 3 from the Philippines in a long race format.

Picking the top 3 Taipei players is really easy: chang jung lin, ko pin yi and chang yu lung. Picking the top 3 among orcollo, corteza, chua, biado, ignacio, faraon, etc. is tough.
there are a lot of things to consider when deciding who the best rotation players in the world are and it will be a never-ending debate. but as far as records are concerned, the Philippines has produced 3 world 9-ball champions, two of which were won against Taiwanese players. Pagulayan (who was a Canadian citizen that time) also won his world 9-ball title against a Taiwanese. The Philippines has won all major WPA title - W9b, W10b, All-Japan, China Open and US Open. This fact actually puts more pressure to the Taipei stars going to the US this October because they have not won a US Open title yet.
I also want to mention that Corteza beat Chang Jung-Lin in 9-ball last July (score 11-7) and then also yesterday (11-3). so Chang may not be the best 9-ball player in the world today; because for me, corteza isnt either.

 

[Cross]

I think the Taiwanese and even the europeans would be slightly favored to win over the pinoys in a tournament setting. From what i heard, i would guess the main reason is because these guys train like the athletes that they are. As much as the actual talent involved, physical and mental conditioning is likewise important if you want to win a tournament ( getting up early in the morning and playing until night without knowing how many hours of rest you will have in between) and i think sometimes that maybe the edge other people have over pinoys.

Maybe the taiwanese and europeans would have talent 70%- 30% physical and mental conditioning

Pinoys talent is 80% - 20% physical and mental conditioning

For money games, pinoys would be favored.

IMO

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Celtic]

Picking the top 3 Taipei players is really easy: chang jung lin, ko pin yi and chang yu lung.

Wu? He just beat Corteza in a major event in China and is now in the semi finals. Multiple world championships.

Yang also jumped off a fishing boat not long ago and played in a 2015 world class event and still almost won the thing and proved that he has the chance to knock off anyone, then he went back fishing... Dude is 51st in the world on the rankings and he is ranked after playing only one single event...

Ko Ping Chung is ranked above Jun Ling Chang on the WPA rankings now.

Taiwan is crazy deep in world class talent.

 

[arps]

Wu? He just beat Corteza in a major event in China and is now in the semi finals. Multiple world championships.

Good thing that you mentioned Wu (who actually plays for China, and lost in the semis about 3 hours ago) and how bad he beat Corteza yesterday (I watch the CBSA too). I'd like to inform you though that before Corteza was eliminated, he beat Lin Da-li (the current Chinese Taipei National Billiards Open champion), Chang Jung-Lin (11-3) and Hu Chun-Yang (both also from Taipei).

But I dont really rely on single wins as basis. if you say "Wu beat Corteza", i can say "but Ignacio beat Wu in All-Japan". then you'll say "yeah but Chang Yu-Lung beat Ignacio in China Open last year". then I'd say "yeah but Johann Chua beat Chang Yu-Lung 2 days ago and the score was 9-1". Then you'd say, "but Chang Jung-Lin beat Chua in 2013 in All-Japan semis." and then we'll just be going circles.

Right now though, im very happy that Wu is back playing. He suffered from leukemia (last year i think), and I hope for his complete recovery. I'm very excited to see the real Wu Chia-Ching-performance from 10 years ago. His performance in CBSA Guangzhou last July where he took the title was awesome.

 

[Poolplaya9]

World champions for the last 10 years,

9 Ball:
PHI - 1
TPE - 1

10 Ball

PHI - 0
TPE - 1

8 Ball

PHI - 2
TPE - 2

If you bring it down to non world championship majors, then you have:

All Japan
PHI - 3
TPE - 4

US Open
PHI - 1 (if you count Alex)
TPE - 0

China Open
PHI - 2
TPE - 2

While they are almost even per these stats (Taiwan has a very slight edge), just as important in my opinion is also knowing how many entries on average each of these countries had in each event. If one country had the same results as the other but with only half as many entrants in each event then they clearly were more dominant and had much better results. Obviously the more players a country has in an event, the greater the odds that someone from that country wins the event.

To pick a most extreme example, if country A has five world title wins in the last ten years but only had one player in each event then that would be absolute domination over country B who has the same five world titles in the last ten years but who averaged ten players in each event.