Tips for shooting jacked up off the rail or over a ball

[TrumanHW]

One more thing to consider, if you're using draw or deflection, if the ball is BOUNCING from the speed and elevation, you get less drag on the cueball which means it'll hold more draw per distance and speed -- and if it's side spin, you'll get less swerve, so the effect of deflection will be increased. These are HIGHLY speed sensitive functions and require good judgment.

Many great suggestions in here, thank you all.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I don't have to measure it...I can feel it........and yes I can before you start in.

Using a high cue angle, hit just above center ball with a hard stroke and tell me it feels the same as doing that stroke when the cue is level.

Some people have no common sense & no feel, Greg. They only know what they have been told.

Some think that small changes are insignificant, so much so, that they say that they don't exists.

The cue coming up off the bridge is called 'clearing the cue' by SmoothStroke.

He is an instructor that knows very much & more than just what he was told by others.

Best Wishes.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

This from the poster who always wants everything measured. Please tell me what you think you feel.

I don't have to measure it...I can feel it........and yes I can before you start in.

Using a high cue angle, hit just above center ball with a hard stroke and tell me it feels the same as doing that stroke when the cue is level.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Yes and over 30 years ago it was called a nip stroke at least here in the North East., so what?

If I drive down on a cue as Greg states it "feels' different than shooting straight through for a good reason. It is NOT due to any additional tip contact time as he suggested.

I hope you are not implying that the knowledge I have of the game was just what was told to me by others.

Some people have no common sense & no feel, Greg. They only know what they have been told.

Some think that small changes are insignificant, so much so, that they say that they don't exists.

The cue coming up off the bridge is called 'clearing the cue' by SmoothStroke.

He is an instructor that knows very much & more than just what he was told by others.

Best Wishes.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Yes and over 30 years ago it was called a nip stroke at least here in the North East., so what?

If I drive down on a cue as Greg states it "feels' different than shooting straight through for a good reason. It is NOT due to any additional tip contact time as he suggested.

I hope you are not implying that the knowledge I have of the game was just what was told to me by others.

Tony,

Who said I was speaking of you specifically?

I was speaking to Greg in regards to a general contention by some in regards to what he has said in a couple of threads.

But... if you think that the contact time is an exact constant regardless of other parameters, you are mistaken.

 

[Neil]

Tony,

Who said I was speaking of you specifically?

I was speaking to Greg in regards to a general contention by some in regards to what he has said in a couple of threads.

But... if you think that the contact time is an exact constant regardless of other parameters, you are mistaken.

Typical AZB. The C player telling the instructor that his facts are wrong just because he has a different OPINION. And you talk about others being arrogant?? How arrogant do you have to be to state that your opinion trumps known facts?

 

[ENGLISH!]

Typical AZB. The C player telling the instructor that his facts are wrong just because he has a different OPINION. And you talk about others being arrogant?? How arrogant do you have to be to state that your opinion trumps known facts?

I know more science than you & suspect that you only know any that you do only as it relates to pool because you read it from someone else or was told it by someone else.

I probably know more science than most of the PBIA certified instructors.

Differences make a differences. Period.

You will no doubt quote or refer to the tests that were done & do not realize that they were lacking & incomplete & hence inconclusive.

Are the differences very small? Yes, but they ARE there.

Are they significant? That depends. But in a game where a fraction of a millimeter can sometimes be VERY significant, I'd say any difference can be & probably is significant.

I'm not speaking of Tony, but where one can pay a fee to take a course, pass the test & become a certified instructor in 2 days, I have little confidence in their science knowledge, generally speaking.

You Have a Good Sunday.

PS Again, you mis-characterized the facts of matters, as you so often do, to suit yourself.

 

[ENGLISH!]

"Tips for shooting jacked up off the rail or over a ball?"

So which tip is better, a softer tip or a harder tip for shooting jacked up off the rail or over a ball?

And does tip diameter make a difference?

What about LD vs non-LD shafts?

If you're serious & not being sarcastic, I'd suggest an LD shaft.

As to the tip question, why are you asking & do you plan on hitting or missing center OR given the totality of you questions, do you plan on using english?

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Read my post, I did not say that contact time is an exact constant regardless of other parameters. I question anyone who says they can feel the difference, and what he feels is not tip contact time.

Btw who was the general contention by some in regards to his statement.....me.

Your passive aggressive BS is old Rick.

QUOTE=ENGLISH!;5305870]Tony,

Who said I was speaking of you specifically?

I was speaking to Greg in regards to a general contention by some in regards to what he has said in a couple of threads.

But... if you think that the contact time is an exact constant regardless of other parameters, you are mistaken.[/QUOTE]

 

[Tony_in_MD]

All I read here is your opinion. Such an inflated self worth you have." I know more science than you .... I probably know more science than most of the PBIA certified instructors." You know nothing about others backgrounds I wish you were in the science classes I taught.

Rick, playing and competing in pool for 30 years prior to becoming an instructor does does not count right?

I know more science than you & suspect that you only know any that you do only as it relates to pool because you read it from someone else or was told it by someone else.

I probably know more science than most of the PBIA certified instructors.

Differences make a differences. Period.

You will no doubt quote or refer to the tests that were done & do not realize that they were lacking & incomplete & hence inconclusive.

Are the differences very small? Yes, but they ARE there.

Are they significant? That depends. But in a game where a fraction of a millimeter can sometimes be VERY significant, I'd say any difference can be & probably is significant.

I'm not speaking of Tony, but where one can pay a fee to take a course, pass the test & become a certified instructor in 2 days, I have little confidence in their science knowledge, generally speaking.

You Have a Good Sunday.

PS Again, you mis-characterized the facts of matters, as you so often do, to suit yourself.

 

[JC]

When shooting cross table to the side pocket off the rail, Paul Potier showed me an excellent technique.

Look at the cue ball last to ensure a solid hit. The side pocket is big and forgiving enough to do this with great confidence.

JC

 

[ENGLISH!]

All I read here is your opinion. Such an inflated self worth you have." I know more science than you .... I probably know more science than most of the PBIA certified instructors." You know nothing about others backgrounds I wish you were in the science classes I taught.

Rick, playing and competing in pool for 30 years prior to becoming an instructor does does not count right?

Where did I say that I was speaking about you specifically?

Do you know what the term "MOST" means?

You have no true idea of what my opinion of my 'worth' is.

I've seen some of Neil's 'science' explanations from which I make my assessment.

It's rather obvious to me & some others what the game & tactics are here.

I'm not playing.

You Have a Good Sunday.

 

[SilverCue]

If you're serious & not being sarcastic, I'd suggest an LD shaft.

As to the tip question, why are you asking & do you plan on hitting or missing center OR given the totality of you questions, do you plan on using english?

I wasn't being sarcastic but figured my post would be ignored.

I would never try to use English with an elevated cue unless I was trying to curve the cue ball.

I suspect that a smaller diameter, flatter, hard tip (well chalked) would be best.
Since smaller diameter is lighter, it would also be LD by default.

 

[Neil]

Where did I say that I was speaking about you specifically?

Do you know what the term "MOST" means?

You have no true idea of what my opinion of my 'worth' is.

I've seen some of Neil's 'science' explanations from which I make my assessment.

It's rather obvious to me & some others what the game & tactics are here.

I'm not playing.

You Have a Good Sunday.

Rick, as usual, you are here just to sow discord and knock instructors. Same old, same old. Your post speaks of nothing but arrogance, how you know more than most instructors, yada, yada. You have been playing for so long, how come you can't incorporate any of your vast knowledge into playing the game? The only games here are the ones you are playing.

You freely dismiss known facts with a wave of the hand, and offer nothing in return but your unqualified opinion. You knock my knowledge because I gained almost all of it from others. Like that is supposed to be a bad thing? Your arguments against known science of pool make no sense whatsoever, and only showcase that you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

 

[Neil]

I believe this is probably the number one run stopper for most players.

One thing I've noticed is ... when you're shooting off the rail and your cue isn't perpendicular to the rail, when you follow through, if you touch the rail, it might deflect your cue off line.

Aside from that, and some people's suggestions of looking at the CB last... who has some undeniably good drills or tips for shooting elevated?

Thanks

As has been mentioned already, look at the Billiard University drills for some drills to practice.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Rick, as usual, you are here just to sow discord and knock instructors. Yeah, right. Same old, same old. Your post speaks of nothing but arrogance, how you know more than most instructors, yada, yada. I never said that I know more than most instructor. I said that I probably know more SCIENCE than MOST PBIA instructors. You have been playing for so long, how come you can't incorporate any of your vast knowledge into playing the game? The only games here are the ones you are playing. Tony, You, Tony, You, Etc. all with misstatements & omniscience regarding me.

You freely dismiss known facts with a wave of the hand, and offer nothing in return but your unqualified opinion. What is considered as 'known' is not always factual. You knock my knowledge because I gained almost all of it from others. Like that is supposed to be a bad thing? I never said learning from others was a bad thing, but it shows your lack of real science understanding, especially where concepts are concerned. Your arguments against known science of pool make no sense whatsoever, and only showcase that you don't have a clue what you are talking about. That statement shows how little you know regarding actual science, as there is no such thing as "known science of pool". There is only science as it relates to aspects of pool & as I previously stated what is thought to be known is NOT always factual & even when so, can be misstated.

Please see the blue & know that I am not playing this game any further. I think you've shown how much you misstate matters.

Have a Good Time for the rest of the day.

 

[Neil]

To the OP- Sorry about the de-rail from a certain other poster. There are a number of videos about shooting off the rail (I'm assuming you mean cb near frozen or frozen to the rail here). Have you seen them?

The primary concern is that you have to hit high on the cb and center axis. If you don't hit center axis, you will most likely miscue with a near level stroke, or masse if you elevate your stroke. One good tip, is to slightly elevate your cue to approximate the angle of the rail. Use a firm, solid bridge. And really pay attention to just what you are doing on the shot. It's not a shot to just take for granted, obviously.

If jacked up over another ball, again, make sure you have a solid bridge. For me, I have had the best success with only pulling back as far as I am going to follow through on the shot.

Another tip, is as I believe someone else already mentioned, choke up on the cue if you have to elevate the cue. It helps keep a more normal stroke that way, and will be more repeatable for you.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Yes, Truman.

Sorry for my falling for the bait from a certain few that claim that I do the de-rail.:wink:

I hope you are playing as well as in that video I saw a while back.

Good info in post 21. Perhaps you should be giving your advice on some other matters too.

One does not need to be a certified instructor to have a wealth of knowledge to pass on.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

You didn't have to, I was the only one who publicly disagreed with Duckie, the you quoted his response to me.

I know exactly what most means, do you know what passive-aggressive means?

Since few is the opposite of most, tell me who are the few PBIA instructors that know more science then you?

It has been obvious to me and some others for years what your tactics are. I just am not as vocal as most (again the opposite of few), because frankly, you are not worth it.

Looking forward to your next vacation.

Where did I say that I was speaking about you specifically?

Do you know what the term "MOST" means?

You have no true idea of what my opinion of my 'worth' is.

I've seen some of Neil's 'science' explanations from which I make my assessment.

It's rather obvious to me & some others what the game & tactics are here.

I'm not playing.

You Have a Good Sunday.

 

[ENGLISH!]

You didn't have to, I was the only one who publicly disagreed with Duckie, the you quoted his response to me.

I know exactly what most means, do you know what passive-aggressive means?

Since few is the opposite of most, tell me who are the few PBIA instructors that know more science then you?

It has been obvious to me and some others for years what your tactics are. I just am not as vocal as most (again the opposite of few), because frankly, you are not worth it.

Looking forward to your next vacation.

As I've said, my post to Greg was not specifically with regards to your post or even the thread.

It was more to do with general responses to him by a select few.

Your post WAS similar in nature & perhaps did prompt me to make the post to him but I was not speaking specifically of you.

As to the rest of your post here, you're entitled to your opinion but you really know nothing about me.

Oh, & as to your question as to what PBIA instructors know more science than me, I really have no idea, perhaps none.

Is Dr. Dave or Bob Jewitt a PBIA instructor?

Perhaps you do, but I would not know as I have seen you make some statements that do not indicate that.

It's like some of you are really paranoid & read stuff into things that are not there & then go off on arrogant 'attacks'.

Your experience is yours & mine is mine & we disagree in some areas.

That does not mean that everything I post is about you or your 'profession' or sideline.

You Have a Good Evening.