objective vs subjective example

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bbb

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if you set up a spot shot and show someone where behind the line to put the cue ball so a half ball hit makes it
then tell them aim the center of the cue ball to the edge of the object ball they will make it.....:smile:
assuming they lined up correctly and have a straight stroke
for the non pivot aimers this is straight forward and for the pivot guys it takes a perception and pivot to get there (thats ok...:smile:)
move the cue ball allittle off the perfect half ball hit spot
and i think non pivoter and pivoters use their experience (subjective) to calculate the adjustment to hit to make it
(ie the fudge factor)
from what i know about cte i think the cte users will say the perception from the angle presented will get you to the correct contact point after the pivot and half tip offset
since i think the cte users explain that different angles with in a cte alignment
changes the contact point because of the system
(IF I AM WRONG HERE PLEASE CORRECT ME)
but since its not easy for newbies to make balls that are not on the perfect angles
i think there is a fudge factor learning curve for the pivoters and non pivoters for the subjective mind to assimilate
so what i am saying is i think all systems have an objective and subjective component
i am not the first to say it
and if cte helps you find the angles and contact points....GREAT...:smile:
as i said its not for me but i believe in live and let live
whew ....:D
lets see how many of you will read thru that and respond.....:thumbup:
 
bbb said:
if you set up a spot shot and show someone where behind the line to put the cue ball so a half ball hit makes it
then tell them aim the center of the cue ball to the edge of the object ball they will make it.....:smile:
assuming they lined up correctly and have a straight stroke
for the non pivot aimers this is straight forward and for the pivot guys it takes a perception and pivot to get there (thats ok...:smile:)
move the cue ball allittle off the perfect half ball hit spot
and i think non pivoter and pivoters use their experience (subjective) to calculate the adjustment to hit to make it
(ie the fudge factor)
from what i know about cte i think the cte users will say the perception from the angle presented will get you to the correct contact point after the pivot and half tip offset
since i think the cte users explain that different angles with in a cte alignment
changes the contact point because of the system
(IF I AM WRONG HERE PLEASE CORRECT ME)
but since its not easy for newbies to make balls that are not on the perfect angles
i think there is a fudge factor learning curve for the pivoters and non pivoters for the subjective mind to assimilate
so what i am saying is i think all systems have an objective and subjective component
i am not the first to say it
and if cte helps you find the angles and contact points....GREAT...:smile:
as i said its not for me but i believe in live and let live
whew ....:D
lets see how many of you will read thru that and respond.....:thumbup:
Click to expand...

There is always subjectivity in making a ball. Outside of the aiming component, you have stroke, speed, spin, table conditions, etc. It all matters. An aiming system does its best to start you on the correct shot line, which drastically minimizes everything else you must account for. Very often a center ball shot is all you need. But you always need to take into account all variances for a given shot.
 
mohrt said:
There is always subjectivity in making a ball. Outside of the aiming component, you have stroke, speed, spin, table conditions, etc. It all matters. An aiming system does its best to start you on the correct shot line, which drastically minimizes everything else you must account for. Very often a center ball shot is all you need. But you always need to take into account all variances for a given shot.
Click to expand...

mohrt
you deserve the nobel peace prize for aiming wars....:thumbup:......:)
 
Objectivity/Subjectivity

As an experiment in Objectivity. I decided to shoot all of my shots for awhile by looking straight down the shaft of the cue. I found I delivered to the shot very well, better than I had expected and a lot of shots I felt very good about before making them. This was huge for me as I have rarely if ever looked down the shaft at all. What I learned from this is that there is a higher degree of objectivity simply by looking down the cue shaft even it you don't use it in your plans for aiming. Having that basis to make a perfect cue tip delivery just seems to work out really well increasing confidence.
 
bbb said:
if you set up a spot shot and show someone where behind the line to put the cue ball so a half ball hit makes it
then tell them aim the center of the cue ball to the edge of the object ball they will make it.....:smile:
assuming they lined up correctly and have a straight stroke
for the non pivot aimers this is straight forward and for the pivot guys it takes a perception and pivot to get there (thats ok...:smile:)
move the cue ball allittle off the perfect half ball hit spot
and i think non pivoter and pivoters use their experience (subjective) to calculate the adjustment to hit to make it
(ie the fudge factor)
from what i know about cte i think the cte users will say the perception from the angle presented will get you to the correct contact point after the pivot and half tip offset
since i think the cte users explain that different angles with in a cte alignment
changes the contact point because of the system
(IF I AM WRONG HERE PLEASE CORRECT ME)
but since its not easy for newbies to make balls that are not on the perfect angles
i think there is a fudge factor learning curve for the pivoters and non pivoters for the subjective mind to assimilate
so what i am saying is i think all systems have an objective and subjective component
i am not the first to say it
and if cte helps you find the angles and contact points....GREAT...:smile:
as i said its not for me but i believe in live and let live
whew ....:D
lets see how many of you will read thru that and respond.....:thumbup:
Click to expand...

What's the difference between a 3 degree cut and a 2 degree cut?

Yes, if you set up a shot where a known aim - half ball aim - works then for THAT shot the aim is 100% objective for the perception needed. Move it an inch either direction and now the perception for feel aimers becomes VERY subjective.

For system aimers the perceptions STAY objective regardless of where the object ball is. The steps to align remain the same regardless of ball position.

You take any shot and a system aimer will use the "key" that he knows works for that shot OR he will cycle through the available keys and at worst guess between two that he thinks would work giving him a 50/50 shot at getting it right. That's what we mean by objective.

And when a system aimer works with the system enough he looks like a damn good natural feel aimer with uncanny accuracy.
 
All aiming systems are subjective. There is not a objective component in any.

There are not any real world items that anyone can use to aim. Everything used to aim with is done through visualization in the shooters mind. This makes aiming totally subjective. Not a hard concept to understand......well for some it seems to be.

The sights on a rifle are a example of a objective component to use for aiming. Whoever shoots that rifle will use the same sights because they are real, they exist.

The subjective component of aiming a rifle is aligning the sights and knowing and when to squeeze the trigger based on the current shooting conditions.

If you are trying to hit a moving target and not a stationary one it's totally subjective because of leading the target.,,,,,,,the sights are at some point ahead of the target when the trigger is squeezed. That distance is pure subjective because it based on past experiences of shooting moving targets.

Aiming systems are missing the objective component, real world objects that anyone can use to aim with.

There is no spot on the table in the real world, there is no edges on balls in the real world, there is no contacts points on the balls, there is nothing in the real world that anyone can use in aiming a pool shot.
 
JB Cases said:
... if you set up a shot where a known aim - half ball aim - works then for THAT shot the aim is 100% objective for the perception needed. Move it an inch either direction and now the perception for feel aimers becomes VERY subjective.

For system aimers the perceptions STAY objective regardless of where the object ball is.
Click to expand...
Nope. You simply don't know what "objective" means in this context. Never have. Apparently never will.

pj
chgo
 
Objectivity:

http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/objectivity

Objectivity is a noun that means a lack of bias, judgment, or prejudice. Maintaining one's objectivity is the most important job of a judge.

-----------------------------------------

So when I go to aim I can either estimate based on my best guess as to the shot line OR I can use the balls to follow a set of concrete steps which lead me to a shot line that I adopt with no judgement or bias as to whether that line is correct or not.
 
JB Cases said:
Objectivity:

http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/objectivity

Objectivity is a noun that means a lack of bias, judgment, or prejudice. Maintaining one's objectivity is the most important job of a judge.

-----------------------------------------

So when I go to aim I can either estimate based on my best guess as to the shot line OR I can use the balls to follow a set of concrete steps which lead me to a shot line that I adopt with no judgement or bias as to whether that line is correct or not.
Click to expand...
OK, you don't know what judgement means either. No big surprise there.

pj
chgo
 
336Robin said:
As an experiment in Objectivity. I decided to shoot all of my shots for awhile by looking straight down the shaft of the cue. I found I delivered to the shot very well, better than I had expected and a lot of shots I felt very good about before making them. This was huge for me as I have rarely if ever looked down the shaft at all. What I learned from this is that there is a higher degree of objectivity simply by looking down the cue shaft even it you don't use it in your plans for aiming. Having that basis to make a perfect cue tip delivery just seems to work out really well increasing confidence.
Click to expand...

Good for you.

I often use the stick to establish the line and then drop onto the shot (stance) and lift the shaft with the bridge hand on that line.

Works for me.

Be well.
 
Objectivity

In my personal opinion, if you know where the cue ball is supposed to be at delivery and you look straight down the cue stick to deliver the cue ball, that is hard to not be a very objective reference.

Its the players job to deliver. How can any claim of objectivity be stronger than any other?



LAMas said:
Good for you.

I often use the stick to establish the line and then drop onto the shot (stance) and lift the shaft with the bridge hand on that line.

Works for me.

Be well.
Click to expand...
 
336Robin said:
In my personal opinion, if you know where the cue ball is supposed to be at delivery and you look straight down the cue stick to deliver the cue ball, that is hard to not be a very objective reference.

Its the players job to deliver. How can any claim of objectivity be stronger than any other?
Click to expand...

Do you always sight "straight down the cue" while shooting?
 
Its easy enough to.

No I hadn't been but it would be easy enough to. I don't find it takes anything away from the way I have been playing which is focusing on how the balls will meet at contact. I think it actually takes in account the parallax of the shot and keeps your judgment from making errors due to distance. There are likely several scenarios where I don't look down the shaft on spin shots where you twist banks and things of that sort.



cookie man said:
Do you always sight "straight down the cue" while shooting?
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
336Robin said:
In my personal opinion, if you know where the cue ball is supposed to be at delivery and you look straight down the cue stick to deliver the cue ball, that is hard to not be a very objective reference.

Its the players job to deliver. How can any claim of objectivity be stronger than any other?
Click to expand...

Unlike you, I am sometimes fooled by the Parallax View.
 
I get it too

That was one of the reasons I decided change views to down the shaft for certain shots at a distance. I was misjudging a shot here and there and decided there had to be a fix for it and I think I found it just aim for center of where you know the cue ball should be and deliver straight to the center and it seems work pretty well.
LAMas said:
Unlike you, I am sometimes fooled by the Parallax View.
Click to expand...
 
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