I don't think anyone is using it as an excuse for poor play. When you spend $40 + on a measals cue ball you don't want fractures on it that could have been avoided
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Damage To Cue Ball
- Thread starter Sloppy Pockets
- Start date
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Has the G10 been banned from any tournament play yet? I've heard of rooms banning them but no specific tournaments. I'm curious because I was thinking of trying one out because my installer actually does them pretty cheap but now you guys have me second guessing that.
Well, I never said the CB was ruined. It performed a lot better than I did. But there weren't just a few marks, there were dozens and dozens of these crescent-shaped fractures, ten times as many as are visible in the photos (cell phone camera, bad lighting, "I'm no photographer", and other sad excuses)
The only reason why I took the photos was because someone in another thread showed a ball with identical damage and claimed it was because it was a counterfeit (and likely softer) measles ball. I was kinda curious to see if folks here would say that was the case with this ball, and that a real Aramith red circle CB would not get damaged like that. I was a bit surprised to see that a lot of players quickly identified the cause of the damage, and that nobody blamed the cue ball.
I have developed an arsenal of excuses for poor play over the years, both sad excuses and happy ones. A defective CB has never been one of them.
You'd think that would be the case, given that phenolic is hitting phenolic with every shot. The problem is that none of the object balls showed this damage.
I think it might have to do with the fact that the CB is being struck by an object that weighs about three times that of the CB, and that it is being struck with a surface that has the radius of a dime instead of 2 1/4". This would create a lot more local pressure at the point of impact than when the balls themselves collide. Something has to give, and it is usually the less massive object that gets the most damage.
Just a theory, but I'd be curious to hear what Dr. Dave thinks about it.
EVERY single one of those cracks has the possibility of causing a skid if it is the contact point with the object ball..
At the high end that could be the only thing that cost you a game or a match...
Anyone saying it doesn't matter likely doesn't recognize a skid from a miss...
The fact that the g10 is several points higher in hardness than the Cueball coupled with the smaller contact patch is a recipe for disaster...
Most of the linen/canvas phenolics in use that we have tested are around 92 and lower, although you can find some higher... At 92 the softer material offsets the smaller contact patch somewhat so we have not seen damage with anything but the g10/11 on large scale.....
ShoreD Scale maxes at 100 so I am not sure how I have seen g10 listed at 108 in certain materials catalogs as it is generally measured using standard Rockwell hardness testing......
If it's the table, I would think all of the balls would have it, not just the cb. :thumbup:
Chuck that is teller of the tale... The local room with all diamonds had all of the cueballs destroyed so no more G10s... Not a mark on any of the other balls.....
people installing the g10's are assholes, people buying them are almost as culpable.
Just curious about nailed in liners for gc. I have a gc 3 and the liners are held in with a small screw that has a recessed area in the liner. It would need to be completely unscrewed to touch a ball on mine. Are the other gc models different?
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I agree with your suggestions except "it is the less massive object that gets the most damage." During any impact, the large impact forces are equal and opposite on both objects, so both can be damaged. Damage is based on which object is stronger and harder in the impact area.
The CB is more likely to get damage than OBs because:
- the force between the tip and CB during a power break is quite large.
- chalk helps the tip really grab the CB; and with an off-center hit, both normal forces (perpendicular to the surfaces) and tangential forces (along the surfaces) are created, which stresses the surface even more.
- the small radius of curvature of the tip creates higher stresses in the materials during impact.
Although, the force between the CB and the 1-ball is also quite large during the break, and the associated stresses there can also cause damage. With the set of balls that came with my table (I don't know the brand), the 1-ball started chipping in a couple of spots. I first noticed this after shooting hundreds of consecutive break shots while filming the VEEB series with Bob.
Regards,
Dave
Your comments are interesting, as always.
Aside from the high velocity of the CB during the break, do you think the 1-ball may be getting damaged due to the fact that it has the mass of the whole pack of balls behind it? This would illustrate your point about the less massive object in a collision not necessarily receiving the most damage.
I was thinking along the lines of a big car holding up better in a collision with a little car, but I can see now how that is faulty reasoning when applied to surface damage in ball-ball collisions.
Do you think enough pressure could be built up using a normal hard break tip to cause this kind of damage? The cracks I was seeing aren't actually chips taken out of the surface, but seem almost like the pressure was greater than the elastic limit of the material and it got torn apart before rebounding back to its original shape.
This would most likely happen with extreme offset hits, where the peak force would be concentrated along the edge of the tip. The crescent shape of the damage seems to support this idea. The slo-mo videos I've seen show a lot of compression of the tip along the edge that is in contact with the ball. Seems that even a leather tip would get instantaneously very hard during the peak force of a 30 MPH impact.
The largest force on the 1-ball is between the CB and the 1-ball. The forces between the 1-ball and the row-2 balls (which share the force) is less.
If by "normal," you mean leather, then I don't know. I am confident and have direct experience with phenolic tips causing the damage shown; but I think it is certainly plausible that any tip, with enough cue speed, could damage the CB.
Regards,
Dave
