Ok now that JB and Lou is dead , who's next

[JB Cases]

No hearsay, when it comes from you....

"Dennis probably did cover his mouth when speaking to me".

And.....I am acknowledging that a guy MIGHT have covered his mouth when speaking to me. You know like people do when they don't want to disturb someone else.

So it's entirely possible that SOMEONE saw Dennis cover his mouth when he said something to me.

That doesn't mean he was coaching me. Even you have to have watched enough court tv to figure that out.

One thing is certain, NO ONE knows what Dennis said to me except Dennis and me. My wife had headphones in and wasn't paying attention to either of us.

Lastly, AGAIN, if I had been coached then I would have beaten Lou easily. But I consistently took the WRONG shots.

Maybe you can explain letting Lou get away from me when I got the score to 6:5?????

Please share your expert analysis and show me where this superior coaching helped me from there?

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

And.....I am acknowledging that a guy MIGHT have covered his mouth when speaking to me. You know like people do when they don't want to disturb someone else.

So it's entirely possible that SOMEONE saw Dennis cover his mouth when he said something to me.

That doesn't mean he was coaching me. Even you have to have watched enough court tv to figure that out.

The fact that a known one pocket player was in your corner, and was seen speaking to you during the match, and you acknowledge he was speaking to you....would reasonably lead one to believe that he could possibly be giving you advice. That possibility, by itself, is a legal defense.

If he had have been your paperboy, we really couldn't make such a leap.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Lastly, AGAIN, if I had been coached then I would have beaten Lou easily. But I consistently took the WRONG shots.

Maybe you can explain letting Lou get away from me when I got the score to 6:5?????

Please share your expert analysis and show me where this superior coaching helped me from there?

I could be coached by Butch Harmon on my next round of golf. If I don't make the shots, I can't win.

About letting Lou get away, that's on you. Superior coaching? Again, no clue. But the fact you chose a known one pocket player to be your security blanket looks suspect. If you had have chosen some person not known as a pretty good one pocket player, your remarks about not being coached would make more sense.

Let's say I'm at a chess tournament, and I'm seen speaking with my brother, talking during a match. Then I'm seen talking to Kasparov a minute or two later. Would you believe that Kasparov was there to tell me to "take my time" and "calm down"?

 

[JB Cases]

I could be coached by Butch Harmon on my next round of golf. If I don't make the shots, I can't win.

About letting Lou get away, that's on you. Superior coaching? Again, no clue. But the fact you chose a known one pocket player to be your security blanket looks suspect. If you had have chosen some person not known as a pretty good one pocket player, your remarks about not being coached would make more sense.

Let's say I'm at a chess tournament, and I'm seen speaking with my brother, talking during a match. Then I'm seen talking to Kasparov a minute or two later. Would you believe that Kasparov was there to tell me to "take my time" and "calm down"?

Understood. But you are making accusations of FACT not speculative leaps.

IF you had played chess above your level then sure, one could say you had help.

But I not only didn't play above my level I actually played WORSE than I normally do.

So any good one pocket player who watched that match would conclude, and they all did, that no one was coaching me based PURELY on the shot selection, not the execution.

It wasn't like I was taking the right shots and dogging them. That did happen a few times. It was that I was taking the WRONG shots far too often.

 

[JB Cases]

The fact that a known one pocket player was in your corner, and was seen speaking to you during the match, and you acknowledge he was speaking to you....would reasonably lead one to believe that he could possibly be giving you advice. That possibility, by itself, is a legal defense.

If he had have been your paperboy, we really couldn't make such a leap.

A legal defense against what? Defamation?

I wish you were here in OKC and I'd take you to court just to see if you're right. I think the judge would give you a pretty good lecture on the difference between speculation and fact and a side lesson on reasonable doubt.

And that's without seeing the match. Once he saw the match, your fine would be tripled due to making him watch such an obvious display of bad one pocket.

 

[BeiberLvr]

I could be coached by Butch Harmon on my next round of golf. If I don't make the shots, I can't win.

About letting Lou get away, that's on you. Superior coaching? Again, no clue. But the fact you chose a known one pocket player to be your security blanket looks suspect. If you had have chosen some person not known as a pretty good one pocket player, your remarks about not being coached would make more sense.

Let's say I'm at a chess tournament, and I'm seen speaking with my brother, talking during a match. Then I'm seen talking to Kasparov a minute or two later. Would you believe that Kasparov was there to tell me to "take my time" and "calm down"?

Are you retarded? One pocket isn't just about making the ball go in the pocket. It's about moving. It's not like John was taking the correct shots, and not executing them well. No, John was very clearly taking the WRONG shots the vast majority of the time.

If Dennis was coaching John to take such horrible shots, then either John isn't very bright, or Dennis is a terrible coach.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Are you retarded? One pocket isn't just about making the ball go in the pocket. It's about moving. It's not like John was taking the correct shots, and not executing them well. No, John was very clearly taking the WRONG shots the vast majority of the time.

If Dennis was coaching John to take such horrible shots, then either John isn't very bright, or Dennis is a terrible coach.

Ah. You're one of the smart people.

He had a known one pocket player sitting in his "corner" for part of the match. Please, Doofie. ...enlighten me as to why John needed an A level 1p player to say "get that money", or keep him calm? He could have brought a friend. Or a life coach. Or an ipod with ear buds. Or 100 other things besides a 1p player.

Speculate all you want as to what was said. If you were at APA nationals, and saw the same thing, everyone would say the player was being coached. Yet, JB, who tried to bet high and then lowballed, then tried to get into a fight with Eric....is somehow above trying to get an edge? Bahahahahahahaha.....

 

[lfigueroa]

Sooooooo tired of reading your endless woofs about this.

If I had lost a money match with a guy that I knew I was better than, I would play him again. I wouldn't do the power woof for double the original bet. If I don't play him again, I can't get any of my money back. The better player will play for ANY reasonable stakes. You could win your money back - but you're looking for the double up payday. It's like a guy I used to play a few years ago. Every time he lost, he wanted to go double or nothing. That's great, but I'm not going to beat a guy 4 sets, lose the 5th, and be even. Sorry - I value my time.

You could have bet big on the first match. The amount got up to over $20k, and you had side action. You backed out, and went back to $10k, and you cancelled all side action. Those are the actions of a player that knew he was about to get torched. Your words say otherwise, your actions scream "scared".

He beat you. Make every excuse you want. Doesn't matter. He has your money. The challenger goes to the champion, not the other way around. He said he'd post $10k, and you could come to him. That, to me, is low hanging fruit for you, IF you think you have the better end of the deal.

The only reason to fire a double bet at Lou is because you know he's smart, and that he won't take the bet. So, calling you out, John. You're the one that's scared. He's willing to put $10k in the middle. You just have to come to Lou. Call or fold. He's all in with $10k. You can't push $20k into the middle and make him fold, and say he's scared. No smart gambler lets someone double the stakes in the second game. Archer played Busty once, and ran the first set. Busty wanted to double the bet the second set. Archer said no. I guess using your logic, Johnny was scared of Busty, even though he had just broke and ran 11 on him for some serious dough?

Nice summation, Shawn.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I wanted to play because Lou is an evil person in my opinion. He is a bully and I wanted to stand up to him. But I didn't bring it so this one didn't have a movie ending.

"Sometimes the bully takes your lunch money."
can't remember who said it here

Lou Figueroa

 

[JB Cases]

Ah. You're one of the smart people.

He had a known one pocket player sitting in his "corner" for part of the match. Please, Doofie. ...enlighten me as to why John needed an A level 1p player to say "get that money", or keep him calm? He could have brought a friend. Or a life coach. Or an ipod with ear buds. Or 100 other things besides a 1p player.

Speculate all you want as to what was said. If you were at APA nationals, and saw the same thing, everyone would say the player was being coached. Yet, JB, who tried to bet high and then lowballed, then tried to get into a fight with Eric....is somehow above trying to get an edge? Bahahahahahahaha.....

I didn't TRY to get into a fight with anyone. I didn't threaten to assault anyone.

I bet what I wanted to bet.

If I had wanted to have a one pocket coach giving me directions then I would have brought someone from Oklahoma city and worked out some signals.

See you're so clueless that you don't understand that people have been playing one pocket for 50 years with signals so IF it had been my intention to get coached without anyone knowing I would have done it that way.

Once again, if Lou wants to let Dennis, or any other person I choose, coach me then I will bet $40,000 to his backer's $20,000. If Dennis had coached me then I would beaten Lou easily.

 

[JB Cases]

"Sometimes the bully takes your lunch money."
can't remember who said it here

Lou Figueroa

You did. You're the bully and you won. That's life. Not always a movie ending.

It's ok, I dogged it.

But I am not scared to try again. You are.

 

[JB Cases]

Nice summation, Shawn.

Lou Figueroa

Nope.

I tried to double the bet FOUR times before the match.

Say what you want but no one from your side offered to take me up on FREEZING UP the whole 20k any of the four times I offered.

Funny that someone you called a "two-bit coward" for not wanting to bet 20k the first time your puppets barked at me (I offered to bet 10k) is now shaking like freezing kitten when I want to bet 20k.

Maybe you need to check the mirror to decide who the "two-bit coward" is.

When I woof I don't need a group to do it for me.

$20,000 10 ahead in Oklahoma City whenever you grow some heart.

 

[lfigueroa]

My wife was making us money handling orders. Dennis was someone who could keep me focused because he says things like "get that money" and "stay down" in the type of manner that means something.

I don't give a shit what you think about it. The match recording shows CLEARLY that I didn't play good one pocket and made lots and lots of mistakes while Dennis was sitting there. So if he was coaching then he is the worst coach ever.

Again the shot that Lou thought was a "world class top shelf one pocket shot" was universally derided by all the world class top shelf one pocket players.

So maybe the problem is that Lou was only pissed that his best game wasn't enough to put away a chicken-winging goofball so he had to find an excuse for not winning 9:0

Again IF Dennis had coached me then Lou would have lost EASILY.

You were being coached:

#####
Somewhere in the latter part of the match I knew something was up. John seemed to be playing different safeties than he had previously and seemed more deliberate about what he was trying to do. So I began to pay more attention to his corner.

I don’t know Dennis Spears but am told that he is a local open level player that plays pros 1pocket, even. He is sitting next to John’s wife, clapping loudly every time John makes a good shot. We progress to the point in the last game of the night where two balls are on the spot and I hide the third ball on the table on my side. John looks at the shot and then goes to his corner and studies the shot from there. That made no sense to me -- studying the shot from that angle. Then, to my surprise, John comes to the table and shoots an intentional foul laying the CB up behind two balls on the spot. The owed ball is spotted and I am now sandwiched between two balls. Now in this situation, taking himself off the hill is actually the wrong shot but nonetheless it's a pretty sophisticated move and I’m wondering what’s going on.

I notice that from my player’s chair, Dennis is sitting out of my line of sight, slouching down behind one of the arena’s wooden pillars. Now, any time I’m near John’s corner, I’m trying to listen in to what Dennis is saying to John. (Gail says I have hearing like a dog.)

Some have doubted that anything of significant value could have been said to John in a just couple of seconds. But it was way more than that. While I was standing at the table figuring out my shot, Dennis was mumbling away to John with plenty of time to assess the table and brief him on options. Dennis was doing this while holding both hands up to his mouth, sort of like you see baseball players with their gloves during a pitcher/catcher mound conference, but I could still hear bits and pieces like, “You gotta protect the four ball” or “Bank the six over to your side.” And no: there was no prior discussion, much less agreement, on cornermen or coaching.
#####

The room owner saw you doing it:

#####
I go up to Ed and we have the following conversation:
Lou: “I got a complaint.”
Ed: “What is it?”
Lou: “John was getting coached by the black guy in his corner.”
Ed: “Oh yeah. I could see it from the booth. I was waiting for you to say something.”
#####

At least two eyewitnesses saw you do it:
######

I was there, sitting directly across from them and I would have to say he was definitely getting coached. A couple of guys I was sitting with were laughing in disbelief that they were getting away with it. I saw a couple of times towards the end of the night, John looked like he didn't have a clue what to do, the guy whispers something, and John comes with a very advanced shot that we didn't see all night.
Even though I was there I am speculating a bit too because I couldn't hear what was being said but...I'd bet a LOT of money that it wasn't just pats on the back and pep talking.

I was there right next to Koop, and while I couldnt hear what Dennis was saying I'd bet my left nut he was being coached on specific shots and moves. The holding his hands in front of his mouth and whispering to John and ducking his head behind the pillar to say something from john was actually kinda comical. it looked like he was trying to be sneaky and didn't know how.

We spoke to Lou for a few short minutes last night afterwards and Lou knows/knew he was being coached at that point. He did say he was pissed about it, but more upset about some of the rolls, and the fact that with a max of 3 games left they shoulda finished it yesterday.

To Lou's credit he was as cool as a cuke, and it didnt seem to affect his composure. I know I wouldnt have been as calm if I was shooting with 20k in the middle.

it was a streamed match at which i was only a spectator. It wasn't my job or any other spectator's to to video or police anything. Shame that there wasn't a stream camera pointed in their direction. Bottom line is it was between john, lou (+his backers), accustats, and ed liddawi to do or say something about it during the match.

A couple of people and myself are telling you what we saw. you take it for whatever you think its worth. If we told you we saw so and so take money outa someone else's wallet would you feel safe leaving anything around the guy just because we didn't film it?

also for your pics or it didnt happen line your linked definition:
About
Pics or It Didn’t Happen (sometimes spelled Pix or It Didn’t Happen) is a phrase often used on message boards or in comments to challenge an unbelievable or outlandish claim by inquiring photographic evidence.

anyone here really think what we said is unbelievable or outlandish?

the buzz in the spectator seating area was "I cant believe lou or his guys aren't saying anything... do you think somebody will?"

oh well karma wins. Im not a JBnutCase fan by any means, wouldn't know lou from a hole in the wall, and i had no $$ on the match, but I'm glad the cheating didn't pay off and I had a great time hangin with Koop n Fred.

Hey Cory,

I'm not from the area and had no clue who the guy was. Just seemed weird, if you were there, to see someone other than John's wife allowed to go and sit where he did. Some guy we were sitting with was the one who told me who it was, how good he plays, and to watch him cupping his hand over his mouth and telling John what to do.
In all fairness, none of could hear what was being said but it was very suspicious to say the least.

In the end I guess it didn't really matter. The better player won, IMO, and I got to hang out with a few friends I don't get to see all that often. It was a win for Koop and that's all that matters to me :grin:

And apparently folks viewing the stream saw it also:

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I Hardy think a guy who as cashed more than once at the DCC such as Lou has sucks , nor would I expect either player to play thier A game under the circumstances

1

If you are not a seasoned player who has played under those kinds of conditions -- the build up, woofing, the large bet, spectators, cameras, a live stream, and such -- I can promise you hat you will not play your A game.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

One question - why is Part 3 of the match missing? Can't find it anywhere, and that was the section when your coach arrived......who uploaded the videos?

No worries, I have the whole thing on a thumb drive, Shawn. I haven't watched it since right after the match itself, so I don't recall exactly what's on it. Regardless there is a pristine copy. Who knows what it will reveal

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Not wrong. Just changed my mind for the reasons I stated.

Lou also said he would bring his wife so our wives could bet on the side. He didn't bring Gail so why don't you call him a liar?

See, John, this is the thing. You will lie without compunction or remorse. You will pull crap out of thin air and because you show no honor or shame, when you're caught red-handed, it washes off you like water off a duck's back.

There was *never* any mention of my wife traveling to NJ much less a stipulation that she be there for the bet to be on.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JB Cases]

See, John, this is the thing. You will lie without compunction or remorse. You will pull crap out of thin air and because you show no honor or shame, when you're caught red-handed, it washes off you like water off a duck's back.

There was *never* any mention of my wife traveling to NJ much less a stipulation that she be there for the bet to be on.

Lou Figueroa

Yeah the idea was our wives would be exchanging money each game. You didn't bring your wife so no bet.

You brought her up and I said she and Karen could bet $500 a game.

Anyway, the offer now is to freeze up $20,000.

When you get some heart call me.

 

[JB Cases]

No worries, I have the whole thing on a thumb drive, Shawn. I haven't watched it since right after the match itself, so I don't recall exactly what's on it. Regardless there is a pristine copy. Who knows what it will reveal

Lou Figueroa

And I am uploading it all to YouTube.

 

[JB Cases]

You were being coached:

#####
Somewhere in the latter part of the match I knew something was up. John seemed to be playing different safeties than he had previously and seemed more deliberate about what he was trying to do. So I began to pay more attention to his corner.

I don’t know Dennis Spears but am told that he is a local open level player that plays pros 1pocket, even. He is sitting next to John’s wife, clapping loudly every time John makes a good shot. We progress to the point in the last game of the night where two balls are on the spot and I hide the third ball on the table on my side. John looks at the shot and then goes to his corner and studies the shot from there. That made no sense to me -- studying the shot from that angle. Then, to my surprise, John comes to the table and shoots an intentional foul laying the CB up behind two balls on the spot. The owed ball is spotted and I am now sandwiched between two balls. Now in this situation, taking himself off the hill is actually the wrong shot but nonetheless it's a pretty sophisticated move and I’m wondering what’s going on.

I notice that from my player’s chair, Dennis is sitting out of my line of sight, slouching down behind one of the arena’s wooden pillars. Now, any time I’m near John’s corner, I’m trying to listen in to what Dennis is saying to John. (Gail says I have hearing like a dog.)

Some have doubted that anything of significant value could have been said to John in a just couple of seconds. But it was way more than that. While I was standing at the table figuring out my shot, Dennis was mumbling away to John with plenty of time to assess the table and brief him on options. Dennis was doing this while holding both hands up to his mouth, sort of like you see baseball players with their gloves during a pitcher/catcher mound conference, but I could still hear bits and pieces like, “You gotta protect the four ball” or “Bank the six over to your side.” And no: there was no prior discussion, much less agreement, on cornermen or coaching.
#####

The room owner saw you doing it:

#####
I go up to Ed and we have the following conversation:
Lou: “I got a complaint.”
Ed: “What is it?”
Lou: “John was getting coached by the black guy in his corner.”
Ed: “Oh yeah. I could see it from the booth. I was waiting for you to say something.”
#####

At least two eyewitnesses saw you do it:
######










And apparently folks viewing the stream saw it also:

Lou Figueroa

All lies. You didn't see or hear anything.

Don't worry I will publish a bunch of shots that go against everything you claim.

But again if you think Dennis coached me then you should want him to coach me every time as bad as I played.

Soooo, here is the offer, Dennis can coach me and I will bet $40,000 to your backer group's $20,000.

 

[BmoreMoney]

And I am uploading it all to YouTube.

Any idea when?