Mosconi Cup 2015, Boyes: 'Disappointed if we aren't partying on Wednesday!'
- Thread starter Benward452
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I have to agree with this 100%.
The thing European countries have going for them, and what really sets their pool culture apart from the USA is centralized, nationally sanctioned governing bodies and a very good league system with multiple tiers. Teams and players move up and down the tiers based on their performance levels. They all play on 9' regulation equipment and all follow the same same rules. Also, and gambling culture is not openly embraced or heralded to the same absurd level as it is here in the USA. In fact, it's generally discouraged.
By contrast, the USA has a whole bunch of different leagues with varying rules,(TAP, BCA, APA, etc..) which seem generally at odds with each other. And taking the APA as an example... when you finally get to Vegas you end up playing on 7' tables because it's the lowest common denominator???? WTF??? Oh, and unless a league in USA is paying a pro to be a spokesperson, your top pros and self-proclaimed upper echelon players in the USA look at leagues as a big joke.
Now, for contrast take Germany as an example. The word Bundesliga, which some of you may be familiar with from soccer world, actually means "national league" and they have Bundesliga teams for just about all types of sports. And look at some of the team lineups in the upper tier of the German Pool Bundesliga for yourself here: http://portal.billardarea.de/cms_leagues/plan/3842/5311. Click through the team names and you will seen names like like Souquet, Ortmann, Ouschan, Feijen, Eckert, Van Den Berg along with their game stats for straight pool, ten ball, nine ball and eight ball. In the past there have been others such as Melling and Hohmann on those teams, too.
So, I would be making a true statement if I said Team USA is losing to a team made up of mostly league players. (for the record, I hope Team USA wins, but it's looking like an uphill battle at this point).
Granted, a huge obstacle to overcome in the USA is that the distances here are so much greater that any kind of "National League" of Pool does not seem possible. And the lack of a centralized governing body with any real power or authority make a common set of rules and a truly "professional" organized club feeder system virtually impossible. These things (and movies and TV shows that repeatedly glorify gambling in pool) are the real culprits stunting the growth of pool as a viable sport in the United States. The mainstream here simply doesn't see pool as sport, they see it as a game of skill to pass time and another vehicle for gambling.
No doubt, and I don't think any less of Ken, but he did have a bad match.
Sorry, he definitely puts it down and pulls it back up. The ref calls foul once he starts to pull it back up.
And ALSO which you are neglecting to see. Karl first places the cue above the 3, and ultimately while referee Ken is talking to coaches, places it in a completely different spot...why...because he measured the first shot out and it wasn't possible.
He measured. Adjusted. And placed it in a completely different spot.watch the replay again. I've already seen it a dozen times.
And Ken Schumann has been around for a while, he knows measuring when he sees it. Karl just did a good performance to talk his way out of it.
No hating going on. Just facts and observations
Spot on, Joey.
Karl ends up placing it in a completely different spot than where he was measuring up at first. This should tell anyone that Karl was not placing anything when Ken called foul.He was measuring.
I just looked and it's not even in the WPA rules that I could find. Here's what it says under CSI league rules:
And here's what it says under the applied rulings, and the situation seems to match pretty closely what happened:
It's such a vague rule that you've got to be absolutely sure if you're going to call it, and Ken knew that he couldn't stand by his initial ruling, so I don't even know what we're all arguing about anyway. Even the guy who made the call in the first place disagreed with himself!
That's a little strong.
I was thinking more along the lines of just go to your seat when the ref calls you on a foul.
Don't carry on and make the ref second guess himself when what he saw was in fact you measuring the shot.
And certainly, while the ref is talking to your coach, don't quickly set up a completely different shot before the ref notices and makes you place the ball where you originally were measuring...err placing... the cue ball in the first place.
His argument for "placing" went completely out the window once he put the cue ball in a new spot.
Good post. I agree with you.
My problem is that Karl did a song and dance and got out of it. The referees instinct was telling him to call foul. Karl should've just went to his chair.
I think Karl didn't want to shoot it. Later he says "you called a foul, so it has to stay a foul." He was happy to give it up.
That was all part of the act. Place the cue ball in a completely different spot, then go to the chair and act like you were just placing it, then as ref insists Karl take the shot, get up and work with the new spot.
When in reality, he measured his first take on the placement (cue ball above the 3), tried to bail out and was called for the foul.
can you tell me the benefit of Karl measuring that area with the cueball, it seems VERY obvious to me he is trying to place the cueball in the tight space in order to pocket the 2 ball. which he does after the ridiculous foul is taken back.
If it's a foul, then why didn't ken stick with his ruling? he immediately took it back becuase he was wrong. or do you think Ken has no backbone and took it back because of the pressure from Karl?
this whole situation is ridiculous, and one of the many reasons I try not to come into the main forum very often, a bunch of experts who probably can't run 4 balls.
I'm sorry, but you'd either have to be a D- player, or on crack if you think he was measuring with the cueball. He's trying to place it on the bottom rail between the balls, but leaving enough space to actually cue the cueball legally.
Can I post links here on this forum? Let's try!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7Bi7-2T0vI
Check at 10:36 timeframe!
Either you haven't watched this, are sorely mistaken, or are just flat out lying.
The ball is still in his hand when the ref calls the foul (he never puts it down); he only pulls it back up as he's trying to place it without touching the other balls. And a completely different spot? LOL, he couldn't do that if he tried; there isn't room to place the ball in two completely different spots there.
As far as people asking why the ref had him pick it up and place it again, it's because the US captain asked him to; you can hear it on the video. I see his point, although felt it was a bit silly given that Boyes had done nothing wrong in the first place and had had a tricky, high pressure shot interrupted already by poor refereeing.
So, you've never had ball in hand, sat the cue ball down, got down on it , then reset it maybe a fraction of an inch? By the way , did anyone catch the booger pick at 48:35 of he and Skylar's match?
Yet, you are on the same thread where Karl himself came to talk trash about the Mosconi cup.
So we aren't allowed to give our opinions on events in pool anymore unless we run five balls?
When it comes to assessing fouls, rules, and whether a player is measuring or merely placing a cueball, yes....pretty much.
Sorry, you and Ken were both wrong in your assessment.