Security of this sub forum

JC

JC

Coos Cues
Ok here's the root problem with this guy scamming here. Not trying to skirt my share of the blame for being trusting and careless but.........

This site has decided to provide a couple of buy sell forums here but takes no responsibility for oversight. I got stuck by a guy who has been here with 20 different usernames predating my cue building hobby. When I went public with my situation multiple members immediately knew who I was dealing with.

So why was he here for months before my deal with him? Why didn't anyone notice the MO and clean up the problem? If I knew then what I know now I would have spotted him a mile away like others did. The only ones I am sure have been a constant here since day one of his scamming is the moderators and site owners.

Where were they?

This sub forum moves very slowly and is not hard to keep track of. Not like some where threads drop off page one in an hour. There is real money changing hands here, not insults and micro aggressions like in the aiming thread. So who is watching the henhouse?

My thread has a lot of good input from a lot of smart members. Always use this, never do that, be sure to protect yourself with the other. WHERE IS A STICKY OF ANY KIND AT THE TOP OF THIS FORUM!! Why isn't the beware Jeff Forney thread dredged up from oblivion when it became relevant again up there as a sticky? I frankly had false security, feeling this community was tighter than it really is.

I am now going to say something which I'm sure will be very unpopular and I'm sorry but it needs to be said. If the owners of this site can't do at least a minimal job of protecting the commerce going on here then this and the other buy sell forum needs to be shut down. Period.

I did not want to post this publicly but I sent a PM to Mike (AZhousepro) several days ago with my concerns and got no reply.


JC
 
The only absolute guarantee is a face-to-face transaction between two honest parties.

eBay is the only marketplace that provides protection to buyers and sellers and for sellers, eBay services come at a premium.

You say that others have already posted tried and true methods of helping to ensure a positive experience so I won't offer what would probably be a repeat of them here.

The owners of a forum, online marketplace, newspaper, or magazine do not hold any responsibility to guarantee satisfaction to parties to a transaction.
 
I was thinking the same thing when I saw the laundry list of user names that had been posted. "bigdogk9" had tons of sale/trade-only-for-kamui-tips-blah-blah-blah threads with no reference to previous behaviors.

I'm not in the same position JC is in, but I'm definitely in the same market, and check this subforum daily looking for deals (especially for lathes), so I know that could have very easily have been me.

Hopefully, in the future, if someone shady is detected, I see no reason why they shouldn't be put on public watch.
 
Type79 said:
The only absolute guarantee is a face-to-face transaction between two honest parties.

eBay is the only marketplace that provides protection to buyers and sellers and for sellers, eBay services come at a premium.

You say that others have already posted tried and true methods of helping to ensure a positive experience so I won't offer what would probably be a repeat of them here.

The owners of a forum, online marketplace, newspaper, or magazine do not hold any responsibility to guarantee satisfaction to parties to a transaction.
Click to expand...

I understand and acknowledge all of what you say.

Having done so, if I owned this place I would be embarrassed to have someone like this running scams on my members, many of whom contribute cash to the site, repeatedly. How hard is a sticky or two if nothing else?

JC
 
I posted the same issue and topic. I even stated that I pay the 'gold member'

rate so the site has the revenues each year to take care of 'ethical' business practices that are obvious 'Violations.' But, even after posting to the Moderators and even posting in the AZ Public Forum, they still have the same issues with the same people.

This is why MANY pool players, cue repairmen and everyone in between have shifted to 'FACEBOOK' billiard classified postings. Where we as 'posters' or 'buyers' have the ability to do something about the 'CHEATERS, Liars and Scum' of the Earth.

Please, once again, AZBILLIARDS MODERATORS and OWNERS of the Site, PLEASE DO WHAT IS NECESSARY TO KEEP THIS SITE WORTH BUYING< TRADING OR SELLING through. Or, even just coming to for information.

RESPECTFULLY<

Mike 'acedonkeyace' Kennedy
 
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JC said:
I understand and acknowledge all of what you say.

Having done so, if I owned this place I would be embarrassed to have someone like this running scams on my members, many of whom contribute cash to the site, repeatedly. How hard is a sticky or two if nothing else?

JC
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Did you even have his phone number? Impression I got was that the whole thing was done via PM's......

If I'm going to send someone a substantial amount of cash, I'm going to know plenty about that person.

I know a site or two that charges for the buy and sell forum, but I don't know how much security that affords. It DOES do one thing though. It pays someone to do a bit of research on that person before they are allowed to do transactions.

With all due respect though, in about 5 mins I got this with just the address.
 

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JC, to start with let me tell you as both a buyer and seller on here how sorry I am that you got scammed.

To me, here is where the problem is. We have a fairly new type of criminal. The WWW Con Artist and he is everywhere.

I don't know who this Jeff guy is or what screen name he might use today or tomorrow.

The biggest problem has a cure but I don't know how long a Site would last with the rules. The Posters would need to all use real names and addresses and then you might hit 90%, a crook will still find a way.

They dwell on fear to make you buy. You see something used in good shape at a price that works for you. This is where the fear comes in. You know 50 other guys want that same deal. When that fear kicks in you lose the chance to check up on it 100%, thats the cons edge.

From what I saw posted it took a page or two to determine his right name, even from those who knew of him as I believe you made a check out to Jeff Allen?

I feel you can do something. Get a copy of the check back, both sides and work with your bank. If he added his last name your bank and his bank need to talk as that is not the name you wrote it out to and I believe that is fraud. If he deposited it in the bank as Jeff Allen and did not include his full bank account name I believe that is fraud. If he cashed the check at a division of your bank they will have taken a lic number, if that does not match I believe that is fraud. Unless he went to court and had his name changed I believe its fraud.

Banks might try to shuffle you away but if you keep climbing the chain of command someone is going to wonder why he is talking to you and tell and underling to handle it.

Who knows, there could be mail fraud as well.

Yes, its a PIA to say the least. If and when you have evidence go to the Police. If they will not help give it to all of your and Watkins Glen Media, they always need fill in stories.

Get a small flame lit and come back in here asking members to give you any more frauds that are reliable and hit the media again, fan the flame.

We as posters can not do any of this for you. The next move is yours my friend. Yes its a lot of work but you can do it for, getting your money back, getting your lathe or self satisfaction that you rid the world for a period of time from a con man.

Best of luck.
 
pescadoman said:
Did you even have his phone number? Impression I got was that the whole thing was done via PM's......

If I'm going to send someone a substantial amount of cash, I'm going to know plenty about that person.

I know a site or two that charges for the buy and sell forum, but I don't know how much security that affords. It DOES do one thing though. It pays someone to do a bit of research on that person before they are allowed to do transactions.

With all due respect though, in about 5 mins I got this with just the address.
Click to expand...

Randy,
All of that was covered in the last thread. That wasn't my question.

My question was who's moderating here?

This thread has been up all day and I think my question has been answered by the silence. No one, that's who.

JC
 
JC said:
Randy,
All of that was covered in the last thread. That wasn't my question.

My question was who's moderating here?

This thread has been up all day and I think my question has been answered by the silence. No one, that's who.

JC
Click to expand...

I'll suggest a 30.00(non refundable) subscription in order to post anything for sale.. Sell 200.00 or more in a year and it's cheaper than Ebay. No posting would be allowed until the seller is confirmed. In order to enter the forum, you'd have to agree to terms and conditions that would exonerate AZ.

That's the best I got....
 
It's silly to assume that this forum generates enough income to moderate even a small amount of sales. If they did moderate then it still would be *****ed about by many for whatever reason.
 
I have always been concerned about these types of issues. I am still being harassed by Brian Lipes for confirming together with a bunch of guys that he had multiple (10) alias's here on AZ.

He has gone as far as emailing Florida Fish & Wildlife to state that I am selling ivory illegally within the U.S. in pool cues. Lol. Which is not illegal. He has reported me to eBay for selling cues with ivory in them there as well.

Keep in mind I bought two Titlists from this guy and stated I did not have an issue with the sale but I did state that phone number and info was another username.



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Brian Lipes <LipesB@upstate.edu>
Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 4:02 PM
Subject: Ivory pool cue sales
To: fws_tips@fws.gov


I am not certain if this individual is complying with regulations in his
commercial enterprise selling new and vintage pool cues containing ivory.
He sells them in multiple venues.

He regularly lists ivory containing cues on Ebay as containing "genuine
white material" to circumvent their policies of not condoning ivory sales.
His username there is Billiardbill. He has 2 active listings with cues
containing ivory, item number 272005514592 and 272005523577.

He sells cues containing ivory on his website at
http://www.billiardbills.com/custom-cues/ . There are at least 7 cues on
his website that contain Ivory.

Additionally he lists cues containing ivory for sale through his business
on Facebook in the Open Billiards Market and on his own Facebook page at
facebook.com/billiardbills. He also regulary lists ivory containing cues
on AZBilliards forum For Sale section.

I do not believe he is compliant with current legislation regarding sale
and delivery of ivory within this country as well as in his international
sales. There is no documentation of the origin for the ivory used in these
cues, never mention of any CITIES certificates.


Dear Brian,

Thank you for your inquiry alerting us about the sale of pool cues
manufactured with ivory on the Internet. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service's mission is, working with others, to conserve, protect and enhance
fish, wildlife, and plants and their habitats for the continuing benefit of
the American people.

We apologize for the tardiness of this response.

This information will be reviewed and will be investigated as time and
resources allow. Please understand that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service, Office of Law Enforcement, only employs 197 special agents
throughout the entire United States, who conduct law enforcement
investigations that may include activities such as surveillance, undercover
work, making arrests, and preparing cases for court. Confirming the
legality of the sale of thousands of wildlife products on the Internet is
but one of many responsibilities for the Office of Law Enforcement.

That said, please continue to bring these matters to our attention. The
fact that you continue to see such items for sale on the Internet does not
mean that we are not trying to investigate these sales to determine whether
or not they are legal. Additional information from concerned members of
the public, such as yourself, can only help us in our efforts.

Thank you again for your interest in our regulations that help protect
fish, wildlife, and plants and their habitats. Please feel free to respond
to this message with any further inquiries that you may have regarding this
matter.
 
pescadoman said:
I'll suggest a 30.00(non refundable) subscription in order to post anything for sale.. Sell 200.00 or more in a year and it's cheaper than Ebay. No posting would be allowed until the seller is confirmed. In order to enter the forum, you'd have to agree to terms and conditions that would exonerate AZ.

That's the best I got....
Click to expand...

That's a whole lot more than exists. I don't think $30 is enough though.

JC
 
We just have to police ourselves .
Forney was banned several times .
It's easy to get a new IP these days .

Anyone selling from that area should be flagged here .

Bigdog looked suspicious from the get go .
You don't do cash business with someone like that .
 
JoeyInCali said:
We just have to police ourselves .
Forney was banned several times .
It's easy to get a new IP these days .

Anyone selling from that area should be flagged here .

Bigdog looked suspicious from the get go .
You don't do cash business with someone like that .
Click to expand...

Plus people need to air out strange behavior sooner. Every time I offered to pick up locally, he disappeared. That is the #1 play of a scammer. Had I banged the drums and made a whiny thread about it, we may not even be here.
 
I'm not partial to either party in this 'deal-gone-bad' but the OP directing blame or some form of liability towards
this forum or it's moderators is misguided. They (it) have no more liability than the editors of a newspaper that
features a 'classified-section'. You saw the ad, you acted on it and got burnt. How is that the newspaper's/forum's fault ?
Posting an ad on this forum is a form of 'free speech'. It doesn't have to be factual or even accurate.
It's not the Mods job to insure that every transaction is a winner and that both parties are satisfied.
The forum/Mods allow and support the use of an escrow service. Why do you think it's in place ?
You made the decision all of your own accord.

KJ
 
KJ Cues said:
I'm not partial to either party in this 'deal-gone-bad' but the OP directing blame or some form of liability towards
this forum or it's moderators is misguided. They (it) have no more liability than the editors of a newspaper that
features a 'classified-section'. You saw the ad, you acted on it and got burnt. How is that the newspaper's/forum's fault ?
Posting an ad on this forum is a form of 'free speech'. It doesn't have to be factual or even accurate.
It's not the Mods job to insure that every transaction is a winner and that both parties are satisfied.
The forum/Mods allow and support the use of an escrow service. Why do you think it's in place ?
You made the decision all of your own accord.

KJ
Click to expand...

Agreed. There is a betting forum on AZ. There is the GAL. They are self moderated beyond typical posting/content/behavior rules. I don't think anyone would think AZ is running a gambling house. They aren't running a commercial sales site for profit either.
 
MVPCues said:
Agreed. There is a betting forum on AZ. There is the GAL. They are self moderated beyond typical posting/content/behavior rules. I don't think anyone would think AZ is running a gambling house. They aren't running a commercial sales site for profit either.
Click to expand...

Is this site a non profit? If not then every part of it that makes it some place a reader might want to frequent is "for profit".

I am the main culprit in my stupidity. They provided an environment for which it to flourish. This place is the wilderness, posing as civilization.

JC
 
KJ Cues said:
I'm not partial to either party in this 'deal-gone-bad' but the OP directing blame or some form of liability towards
this forum or it's moderators is misguided. They (it) have no more liability than the editors of a newspaper that
features a 'classified-section'. You saw the ad, you acted on it and got burnt. How is that the newspaper's/forum's fault ?
Posting an ad on this forum is a form of 'free speech'. It doesn't have to be factual or even accurate.
It's not the Mods job to insure that every transaction is a winner and that both parties are satisfied.
The forum/Mods allow and support the use of an escrow service. Why do you think it's in place ?
You made the decision all of your own accord.

KJ
Click to expand...

Show me where in this sub forum that the forum allows and supports the use of an escrow service? If you read that somewhere, it wasn't here. This one has zero stickies.

If you're running a beach resort and people keep getting body parts bitten off by the same shark, at what point do you either take stronger action to deal with that shark or shut it down?

Again, I am not blaming the forum for my stupidity. If I wasn't burnt someone else would have been eventually with Forney operating with impunity here. So I took one for the team.

What I am pointing out is that it's easy to get lulled into a feeling of false security because this place feels much more intimate than Craigslist when in fact it's not.

JC
 
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