If it is a home table spend the additional $ and buy the Simonis. It will be on your table for at least 4 years. You will never say "gee I should have bought the other cloth". Another writer mentioned the extent Simonis supports the game. This also adds to the value of your purchase. I have had other cloths on my table throughout the years. I will always stay with Simonis. It is very predictable due to their quality standards. After 400 yrs producing cloth I guess that is to be expected!
Andy cloth
- Thread starter 7forlife
- Start date
@Fran: Thank you that was very help full
@Jerry: Thank you for you comment until I read it. Now don't get me wrong when I say your name I said wow can't wait to here what he has to say, but then you came out with that. And again don't get me wrong, I somewhat understand and agree with what you are saying but not to a great deal
First off you start with the "threads like these" comments which regardless of me starting it or not I found very uncalled for as it made no attempt to discredit or sway anyone from simononis, so i find that to be in poor taste.
Second you talk of pool and where it's going and sponsor then jump to some sort of communist remark about only using X company. I don't see how that helps pool, if joe blow wants to put on an event would you rather not have the event because it's not someone that maybe paid you a check for your time (speculation, just saying). There is no single sponsor in nascar or any sport plus having options is what keeps quality up due to competition, so why do you want to U.S. Steel the industry. Do you feel the same way about cue sticks also? should everyone just use predator and Kamui chalk?
Third if someone doesn't like a particular thing about a company then they can not use that company it's that simple but you should be glad that anyone "pool related" want's to add "anything" towards "pool".
Fourth one should be glad to have the option to choose based on needs just like when you bought your car, clothes, meal and everything else.
Lastly sir I feel that it is people who choose to monopolize the world that's the problem with it, there are different levels to everything and a time for certain things. If someone wants to host a world class events then the best should be provided, if someone wants to cover a few tables in a hole in the wall smoke filled dump where the guest are all bangers and spill drinks on the table not to mention could care less if the cloth was simonis, andy, champion or denim that that person should go with what best for them, cause in the end no one goes into anything to lose money (to answer your question about paying more for the same thing).
Thank you very much for your contributions to pool, keep up the good work, all the best for the holidays and the new year, but i just simply don't see eye to eye with your comment.
@Jerry: Thank you for you comment until I read it. Now don't get me wrong when I say your name I said wow can't wait to here what he has to say, but then you came out with that. And again don't get me wrong, I somewhat understand and agree with what you are saying but not to a great deal
First off you start with the "threads like these" comments which regardless of me starting it or not I found very uncalled for as it made no attempt to discredit or sway anyone from simononis, so i find that to be in poor taste.
Second you talk of pool and where it's going and sponsor then jump to some sort of communist remark about only using X company. I don't see how that helps pool, if joe blow wants to put on an event would you rather not have the event because it's not someone that maybe paid you a check for your time (speculation, just saying). There is no single sponsor in nascar or any sport plus having options is what keeps quality up due to competition, so why do you want to U.S. Steel the industry. Do you feel the same way about cue sticks also? should everyone just use predator and Kamui chalk?
Third if someone doesn't like a particular thing about a company then they can not use that company it's that simple but you should be glad that anyone "pool related" want's to add "anything" towards "pool".
Fourth one should be glad to have the option to choose based on needs just like when you bought your car, clothes, meal and everything else.
Lastly sir I feel that it is people who choose to monopolize the world that's the problem with it, there are different levels to everything and a time for certain things. If someone wants to host a world class events then the best should be provided, if someone wants to cover a few tables in a hole in the wall smoke filled dump where the guest are all bangers and spill drinks on the table not to mention could care less if the cloth was simonis, andy, champion or denim that that person should go with what best for them, cause in the end no one goes into anything to lose money (to answer your question about paying more for the same thing).
Thank you very much for your contributions to pool, keep up the good work, all the best for the holidays and the new year, but i just simply don't see eye to eye with your comment.
I agree with 7forlife..
And if anyone thinks that "all the stuff Simonis does for the game" is anything less than self-promotion and advertising, they are deluding themselves.
Short Bus Russ
And if anyone thinks that "all the stuff Simonis does for the game" is anything less than self-promotion and advertising, they are deluding themselves.
Short Bus Russ
Especially if it's a home table, Simonis hands down...that's what's on my GC, right now.
Andy just makes the balls play different than what we've been playing on, forever...
inside english with draw, OB skids really weird. Someone said it's like a teflon coating, that's about right.
Hard Times Bellflower has Andy cloth AND tight pockets on the tournament side... you just cannot let your stroke out... it's like a snooker table, just baby every shot.
Andy just makes the balls play different than what we've been playing on, forever...
inside english with draw, OB skids really weird. Someone said it's like a teflon coating, that's about right.
Hard Times Bellflower has Andy cloth AND tight pockets on the tournament side... you just cannot let your stroke out... it's like a snooker table, just baby every shot.
I agree with this comment, but that doesn't detract from the point Jerry was making - it might even support it. Yes, Simonis sponsors the pro events for advertising and promotional purposes. But such sponsorship directly helps players and, indirectly, the fans who enjoy the game. If everyone bought Andy cloth or Granito instead of Simonis, they would presumably make a business decision and stop sponsoring.
So, I think that we, as serious pool fans, should consider sponsorship when making our choices. But I don't think it is determinative. I don't use Kamui chalk because I don't like it. I will consider Kamui tips when my old stock Moori is to be replaced, but quality is paramount.
In other words, if a cheapo and bad cloth, tip or cue sponsor decided to sponsor pro events, I'm not going to pick those just because they sponsor the events. Further, if one of those sponsors makes a good product but is, in my opinion, charging way more than they should, I am probably not going to support them.
Gideon<-----Simonis 860, tournament blue
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This just does not make sense to me. If you have a Gold Crown , Diamond or similar high end table why would you not want the table to play its absolute best? I had my sub-rails modified, tightened up the pockets, and put new rubber on my table but I never even considered shopping for cloth by price after all that other work. The cloth is the most important thing, its what the ball rolls on and touches. It would be the equivalent of buying a Porshe then shopping for tires by price rather than buy quality and other aspects that will enable your Porshe to handle like it was designed. I suppose if you do not have a decent table you would not realize the benefits of decent cloth but otherwise????
That is far from the truth. When Nextell/Sprint became the series sponsor no other phone companies were allowed to advertise in NASCAR. Try putting a Firestone or Michelin sticker on one of the race cars. There are many products that do not have the permission to advertise in NASCAR. I am not sure about other sports but I am willing the same thing happens in other sports too.
I get where you are going but are you saying that one should not support firestone or Michelin because of their quality? Maybe cause F1 doesn't use them.
So to help keep thing on track and so that we don't fall under the bad name umbrella in this thread I'll clear things up again.
The reason for the question was
a) just to know
b) strictly based on "key" factors the use of Andy cloth was loosely considered
c) if this was for home or minus those key factors this thread would of been held off or the question asked under another topic.
100% agree. A lot of people buy it because of peer pressure and if it cost the most, it must be the best. Johnnyt
PS: Some promoters and table companies use Cyclop balls.
100% agree. A lot of people buy it because of peer pressure and if it cost the most, it must be the best. Johnnyt
PS: Some promoters and table companies use Cyclop balls.
I bought a Cyclops set and have yet to find anything wrong with them. I bought them to become familiar with them because they are used in the Stata BCA tournament and it takes a while to get really familiar with the colors of the skittles colored balls. I have been using them on and off for about 2 months. They seem to play similar to my Aramith Tournaments and my Centennials, nobody else has complained either.For those that are cost conscious they cost roughly half of what my Aramith Tournaments were.
1) I didn't see any difference personally when I played on Andy cloth. It played good to me
2) I focus on making balls go in pocket and can adjust to whatever I'm playing on. If there is a difference in the two it's very slight and if you can't adjust with in a few racks then your not as good a player as you think you are. I wouldn't put the cheapest cloth on my table but in my opinion there's not that much of a difference between the two and most of you complaining aren't good enough for it to matter lol
I also think it plays good. We have it on our gold crown tables at our local hall and I find little difference between it and Simonis. The price was the selling point for the hall owner as both Simonis and Andy were very close in playability, durability and the colour he wanted yet the cost was considerably cheaper doing 16 or so tables.
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Although it would make sense if it were true, it's not. I have directly experienced Simonis contributing in instances where there was no return for them other than a brief mention. So why did they bother in those instances? First, because no one else would, and to help those in need who were doing good for our industry.
BuzzSwiss
Registered
I live in the Philippines, and played on both Simonis 860 (brand new and used) and Andy cloth (new and used), and I can tell you that here in Asia, Andy is far better than Simonis.
Simonis plays great indeed, but is very slow due to humidity. Andy is a better option for humid climate.
My choice, in Europe I love playing on Simonis, but in Asia I hate it.
Asia = Andy
Simonis plays great indeed, but is very slow due to humidity. Andy is a better option for humid climate.
My choice, in Europe I love playing on Simonis, but in Asia I hate it.
Asia = Andy
So because it’s made in Taiwan that immediately makes it inferior ? Lol Thats not a fact set in stone that’s an opinion. A racist opinion that tiwanese our incapable of make a good product lol
Sorry, but after having used Andy 920 cloth for the past 2 years in our poolroom, first with green and this past year with blue, despite loving the faster speed of the Andy 920 vs the Simonis 860 HR, we'll be switching back to Simonis when we re-cover our tables again this fall, for the following 2 reasons:
The color fades starting almost immediately. No, it doesn't affect the playability of the cloth, but there is a significant noticeable difference in the color of the cloth as time passes.
Stains on the Andy cloth are much harder if not impossible to remove as opposed to Simonis cloth, so clearly the cloth is not treated with a fabric protector of the quality that Simonis uses. For a poolroom with a grill, that is a huge issue, as you just can't keep customers from playing without occasionally having something on their hands that transfers to the table cloths.
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Johnnybgood
Banned
I play in a room that recently had 2 of its tables covered in Andy’s Pro Cloth. I also play occasionally at Hard Times. I also own a table with Simonis cloth. So I have the opportunity to compare them
Side by side constantly. I can attest that the Andy’s cloth plays slippery. I compare it more to 860 HR although I can’t compare those side by side. In the room I play, the tables with Andy’s run faster. They also appear to wear quicker. Can’t tell after 6 months that they are recently re-covered other than the slight color difference between the Andy’s and the Simonis. When they were newly covered the Andy’s was a darker Green and has since faded substantially and like a previous post mentioned appear to get dirty much much more rapidly.
I prefer Simonis 860 to all other worsted cloth. Including 860 HR. It provided the happy medium and predictability.
Also, addressing the issue of “standards”...I believe Simonis is and has been the standard for a long time now and I believe it should remain as such till the “industry” adopts something else and not just because of price. Pockets, angles, rail height, table height etc should all be standard in the billiards industry. Let the player choose there own playing equipment (whiten a specification) and leave the playing surfaces benchmarked. That will leave the game as consistent as possible.
I mean we don’t change the size of a baseball or the size of the golf hole or the height of a tennis net so why do we allow variables on pool tables?
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Side by side constantly. I can attest that the Andy’s cloth plays slippery. I compare it more to 860 HR although I can’t compare those side by side. In the room I play, the tables with Andy’s run faster. They also appear to wear quicker. Can’t tell after 6 months that they are recently re-covered other than the slight color difference between the Andy’s and the Simonis. When they were newly covered the Andy’s was a darker Green and has since faded substantially and like a previous post mentioned appear to get dirty much much more rapidly.
I prefer Simonis 860 to all other worsted cloth. Including 860 HR. It provided the happy medium and predictability.
Also, addressing the issue of “standards”...I believe Simonis is and has been the standard for a long time now and I believe it should remain as such till the “industry” adopts something else and not just because of price. Pockets, angles, rail height, table height etc should all be standard in the billiards industry. Let the player choose there own playing equipment (whiten a specification) and leave the playing surfaces benchmarked. That will leave the game as consistent as possible.
I mean we don’t change the size of a baseball or the size of the golf hole or the height of a tennis net so why do we allow variables on pool tables?
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I'm going to be covering my 10 foot Brunswick 6 legged Arcade, very soon. I'm going to use this table to practice my banking (single & multi-rail shots), for my Golf Game that I have every weekend.
Anybody got any ideas about the cloth to use. I'm thinking we have Granito 2000 ?
Anybody got any ideas about the cloth to use. I'm thinking we have Granito 2000 ?
The southeast distributor of Andy cloth was Tony Coates, the former longtime owner of Brass Tap Billiards, located in Raleigh, NC, which is why I'm guessing a number of poolrooms in the Raleigh area switched to Andy cloth to try it out, based on Tony's recommendation, just as he recommended it to me for our room located in northwestern NC. When Rich Kuntz bought out Brass Tap from Tony last year, he also acquired the Andy Cloth distributorship. I've addressed Rich with the two issues I currently have with our Andy cloth, explained in an earlier post. I have received no resolution or explanation as to my issues from Rich, as of this time, which is why I don't plan on using Andy again when we re-cover our tables.