Get rid of jump cues for Mosconi Cup

hang-the-9 said:
If someone made a cue that made kicks easier, I'd be against that also. You can show a 10 year old how to kick, but you won't be using some trick kick cue will you? You will be using the diamonds, which are there as part of the equipment.

I keep re-stating the same facts which most ignore. I can't name a single pro that likes jump cues, they tolerate them because others use them, but I bet not a one will boycott a tournament that made them illegal to use. Using chalk is what made pool the game it is from the days when it was a mace used to shove a ball in a hole. If we want that game, then I guess chalk is also bad for pool. There is nothing in the game that makes a hard shot so easy as a jump cue, and certainly nothing in the game that makes an impossible shot possible like a jump cue does when people hop over a ball an inch from the obstruction.

I don't get impressed by someone driving a Ferrari when I know their dad paid for it, and I won't be impressed if someone jumps a cue ball with a jump cue for the same reason. They did not earn it. They did not get the skill for the shot, the skill came from the trick cue. It may be harder to jump and pocket a ball and get position or a safe of the hit, but it's way way easier with a jump cue than without, and in some cases it's impossible without a short light cue. There is no argument that can be made against that.
Maybe in another generation or two the jump cue will be as accepted as changing clubs in golf, but then we may as well go to 5" pockets for pro events if we want to make things easier.
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There are things that make kicking easier. They are called diamonds and in conjunction with Diamond systems they make kicking way easier.

Ever seen a jump cue stroke by itself? No you haven't because a person has to direct it. How much force is required to jump over a ball four inches away to precisely hit a ball five feet away? What angle do you use? What spin should you use? You don't know?

Well the jump cue magically does all that I guess?

No, it doesn't. The shooter does all that IF they have the skill.

Chalk makes a four table length draw shot possible. Just because Mike Massey can do it doesn't mean I can.

Without chalk Mike Massey is an apa 3 at best. Think about it.



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philly said:
In my mind jumping is a gimmick. Sorry. Learn to kick. It's always been part of the game. The best players know how to use the rails. The table is littered with triangles. Use them. Now get off of my lawn.
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I know how to kick. Now what? I also know how to jump, so what?



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Seriously.
There should at least be guidelines if you are gonna allow jump cues in a tournament so people are punished for errors.
You hook yourself, you must kick.
Someone hooks you, you can jump.

Or just do like turning stone. No jump cues.
That tournament is so awesome, they have it twice a year. :D
 
Straightpool_99 said:
I've seen Mike Massey do three. Don't think four is anywhere near possible. Here he is doing 2 and a half (if you count the first half table travelled to the object ball).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbnxQWe_OTg
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The point was that even these shots wouldn't be possible without chalk. But chalk doesn't turn me into Mike Massey.

A jump cue doesn't turn me into Earl Strickland.

They are just tools that expand the range of possible, they do not take the shot by themselves.
 
Why are we still comparing jump cues to chalk?... seriously?

John, most players can't kick accurately, so they jump. You can show somebody the fundamentals and ideas of kicking, but in 10 minutes they're not gonna kick accurately,
diamonds or not. Please stop defending the short jump stick... it's a crutch.

I don't care if fans find it exciting, people saying "it's another tool", teenagers saying you're resisting change, you're out of it. Really don't care... learn to really play.
I think there's nothing more stupid than trying to jump out of a situation, missing your ball, but hitting every other ball on the table... like a skateboarder that misses the same trick 30 times in a row.

9 and 10 ball, no pogo sticks please.

That is all.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
I've seen Mike Massey do three. Don't think four is anywhere near possible. Here he is doing 2 and a half (if you count the first half table travelled to the object ball).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbnxQWe_OTg
Click to expand...

The point was that even these shots wouldn't be possible without chalk. But chalk doesn't turn me into Mike Massey.

A jump cue doesn't turn me into Earl Strickland.

They are just tools that expand the range of possible, they do not take the shot by themselves.
 
Runner said:
Why are we still comparing jump cues to chalk?... seriously?

John, most players can't kick accurately, so they jump. You can show somebody the fundamentals and ideas of kicking, but in 10 minutes they're not gonna kick accurately,
diamonds or not. Please stop defending the short jump stick... it's a crutch.

I don't care if fans find it exciting, people saying "it's another tool", teenagers saying you're resisting change, you're out of it. Really don't care... learn to really play.
I think there's nothing more stupid than trying to jump out of a situation, missing your ball, but hitting every other ball on the table... like a skateboarder that misses the same trick 30 times in a row.

9 and 10 ball, no pogo sticks please.

That is all.
Click to expand...

Wrong, the players I know can KICK and jump.
 
So after filtering through a few pages here I now have these thoughts.

I know how to kick and jump pretty well. What I do depends on the shot. There are many times where I have played safe only to see them go for the short cue and they manage a hit a they somehow crap a safe out of it. It also happens with kicking from time to time. Sometimes I get a little annoyed when a player kicks out and manages to get safe when they are not really trying to get safe. On the flip side is if they jump and manage to get safe without trying it annoys me every single time.

I do not have any problems with jump cues. I do think that they make it much easier to get out of safes at times, but that has both helped me and hurt me. If I go to a tournament and jump cues are not allowed I have no problem with that. In fact I feel that much of the time it will benefit me as I feel I kick very well. I can also jump pretty well with my player so I still have the jump shot available to me.

What I have started thinking about is what other types of cues are out there that a player could use. Is it possible that a player starts hauling around on of those masse cues like Florian uses. Heck I dont know if there is anything else out there.

I do like the thought of rules that allow the incoming player to jump but they can only jump on the first shot of their turn.

So I guess with all that said I am going to keep using my jump cue unless something changes.

Now I am going to start looking for masse cues and a new case I guess.
 
Shannon.spronk said:
So after filtering through a few pages here I now have these thoughts.

I know how to kick and jump pretty well. What I do depends on the shot. There are many times where I have played safe only to see them go for the short cue and they manage a hit a they somehow crap a safe out of it. It also happens with kicking from time to time. Sometimes I get a little annoyed when a player kicks out and manages to get safe when they are not really trying to get safe. On the flip side is if they jump and manage to get safe without trying it annoys me every single time.

I do not have any problems with jump cues. I do think that they make it much easier to get out of safes at times, but that has both helped me and hurt me. If I go to a tournament and jump cues are not allowed I have no problem with that. In fact I feel that much of the time it will benefit me as I feel I kick very well. I can also jump pretty well with my player so I still have the jump shot available to me.

What I have started thinking about is what other types of cues are out there that a player could use. Is it possible that a player starts hauling around on of those masse cues like Florian uses. Heck I dont know if there is anything else out there.

I do like the thought of rules that allow the incoming player to jump but they can only jump on the first shot of their turn.

So I guess with all that said I am going to keep using my jump cue unless something changes.

Now I am going to start looking for masse cues and a new case I guess.
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Why not? It doesn't hurt anything for players to have different cues for different things. The player still has to be the one who drives the cue. The player decides where to hit the ball and with what force. Different cues might be easier to handle but they are available to everyone just like break cues are, just like chalk and tips and "performance" shafts that promise 25% more spin and greater accuracy. So why should we care what cue a person wants to use as long as the player still has to do the work?

Might as well banish chalk because without it you're not going to draw the cueball 3 feet for perfect shape.
 
And for that matter pool could certainly take a lesson from billiards and artistic billiards. European Artistic billiards. They make the hardest shots on earth and have zero problem with multiple specialty cues.

That's one thing missing in these discussions, people also use masse' shots to get out being hooked. I don't see any problem with using them either. Use whatever you want as long as it is you who has to drive.
 
The problem is there is no govering body . Like Golf has that governs the eqiuptment the keeps the games intent and integrity in tack
Square groves were found to make balls from the rough stop like they were hit from the fairway , the rough is there to make the game harder a penalty of sorts if you land there
So the USGA banned square grove clubs to keep the games intent intac

Jump cues are the square grove clubs of pool they undermine the original intent of how the game is to be played

1
 
one stroke said:
The problem is there is no govering body . Like Golf has that governs the eqiuptment the keeps the games intent and integrity in tack
Square groves were found to make balls from the rough stop like they were hit from the fairway , the rough is there to make the game harder a penalty of sorts if you land there
So the USGA banned square grove clubs to keep the games intent intac

Jump cues are the square grove clubs of pool they undermine the original intent of how the game is to be played

1
Click to expand...

The original intent? Were you there when pool was invented? I mean they used to play with maces

This
pool_mace.jpg


Wouldn't those be closer to the "original intent"?

Pool has a governing body, the World Pool Association. You know those asians that keep kicking everyone's ass? They all use WPA rules. You know those Europeans that kick everyone's ass? They all use WPA rules.

You know those Americans that keep losing in the big events? They play by whatever rules any promoter hands them because NO ONE IN THE USA follows the WPA rules.

That's the real problem. While we argue about jump cues the matter has been settled for 20 years and the rest of the world just accepts them as the tool they are and uses them in highly skilled ways to win more than we do.
 
I don't own a jump cue and blessedly they are banned from most 1pocket competitions. In any case, I think they should be done away with because they give a player a "Get Out of Jail" card. It's a gimmick that lessens the sport.

A few years ago I was trolling the vendor area at a Vegas event and there was a guy demonstrating this weird looking jump cue called something like the "Dr. Popper." He was jumping balls from insanely short distances, with the CB fractions of an inch from an OB. So I watch him for a while and he asks me if I want to try and I say "sure." He sets up three balls in a row, the CB near the middle of the table, an OB about a chalk's width in front of it, and the eight ball maybe a foot away. All three balls are lined up for the corner pocket.

Now, like I said, I don't own a jump cue and I had certainly never used this jump cue, which is about as thin as a fishing rod with a little stubby thingie for a tip but I give it a go.

"Boop."

On my first try the CB obediently leaps up over the obstructing OB and makes the eight. The guy sets it up again. "Boop." Once again I have cleared the blocking OB and made the eight again. To make a long story short, I make the shot three times in a row. No practice, no experience with the jump cue, and I make the shot like it's nothin'.

That short of equipment should be banned from the game.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
I don't own a jump cue and blessedly they are banned from most 1pocket competitions. In any case, I think they should be done away with because they give a player a "Get Out of Jail" card. It's a gimmick that lessens the sport.

A few years ago I was trolling the vendor area at a Vegas event and there was a guy demonstrating this weird looking jump cue called something like the "Dr. Popper." He was jumping balls from insanely short distances, with the CB fractions of an inch from an OB. So I watch him for a while and he asks me if I want to try and I say "sure." He sets up three balls in a row, the CB near the middle of the table, an OB about a chalk's width in front of it, and the eight ball maybe a foot away. All three balls are lined up for the corner pocket.

Now, like I said, I don't own a jump cue and I had certainly never used this jump cue, which is about as thin as a fishing rod with a little stubby thingie for a tip but I give it a go.

"Boop."

On my first try the CB obediently leaps up over the obstructing OB and makes the eight. The guy sets it up again. "Boop." Once again I have cleared the blocking OB and made the eight again. To make a long story short, I make the shot three times in a row. No practice, no experience with the jump cue, and I make the shot like it's nothin'.

That short of equipment should be banned from the game.

Lou Figueroa
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Lou,

Agree wholeheartedly with you. Ban them damn short sticks!!!! However, I choose not to ban jumping balls if the player uses one of the two cues allowed at the table. One playing cue. One break cue. If you can master the technique of jumping with a regular full cue, you deserve to be rewarded just as a different player is rewarded for learning and practicing kicking at a ball with a system.

Full disclosure, yeah, I can jump with a shorty and I do from time to time. Says so in my signature :rolleyes: !

Lyn
 
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