Get rid of jump cues for Mosconi Cup

[one stroke]

Huh? The jump shot is a legal shot so you're upset because a PROFESSIONAL player figured out how to build a cue that is better for that shot?

No one made you the arbiter of what shots people should be allowed to take and what they should be barricaded from.

Jumping a ball over a blocking ball six inches away 8ft into a six inch target is an incredible shot that only a few people on the planet can make. Who are you to take that option away?

I am just going to keep going back to the fact that this topic has been put to bed by the associations that matter for more than 20 years. It's done. You can react and post another rebuttal and it won't change anything. We get it, you don't like jump cues and you probably hate them with even more venom since I am a vocal proponent for them.

As the saying goes, you can have your own opinion but you can't have your own facts.

First off early reading of pool they talk about a rolling ball not one flying thru the air any reasonable thinking person would understand how the game was intended to be played just as they would know cars are made to be driven on the road and not flown in their air
Unfourtunitly thier was no real governing body with any real tradition at the time jump cues were allowed
Of course this is a inherited flaw the of the game has , and why ouside of the pool world no one takes the game seriously ,,

It does not matter what I like I have 4 of them ,, it's not about me I'm not going to bring a knife to a gun fight anymore than Shane , Earl , Berg are
But I'll stand right beside them in saying they should be taken out of the game to restore the games faltering integrity

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[SJDinPHX]

Yes NickB and Onestroke...Totally agree..See post #664!

 

[Nick B]

The problem is that the BCA had become a trade org and not a body for the promotion and betterment (read protection) of pool.

20 years get over it doesn't make it right. Ask those who have been suppressed for tears that it's ok because of length of oppression.

The game was not meant to be an air-based adventure.



Regards

Nick B

 

[SJDinPHX]

Who cringes? The Mosconi Cup crowd? Nah. They love it when the opposing team screws up and love it even more when their team makes a fantastic jump shot.

John..Sorry, but a 'jump shot', is not a pool shot!..It is simply a 'cop out', and a way to avoid the fact that you cannot hit the ball with any other legitimate method!..It completely negates the reason for playing a safety in the first place!..If real competitive pool were meant to be played that way, why have any rules at all?..Lets just shoot the other guys ball in, and duck! (Oh wait, 'ball in hand' was intended to avoid that option )

PS..Yes, a certain amount of skill is involved, in executing a successful 'jump shot'!..But it pales in comparison to being able to kick 1, 2, 3 or more rails accurately...(See Efren Reyes!!!) ..Plus, in case you haven't noticed, he does not need a cue stick specifically designed for anything other than playing the game as it was intended!

 

[BeiberLvr]

I'm curious as to why some keep saying that jump shots were never meant to be a part of pool. Was it at any time stated in the rules somewhere that the CB must never leave the bed of the table?

 

[SJDinPHX]

I'm curious as to why some keep saying that jump shots were never meant to be a part of pool. Was it at any time stated in the rules somewhere that the CB must never leave the bed of the table?

Nothing wrong with the cue ball "leaving the bed of the table"!..The infraction comes, with designing a specific cue, (and tip) meant to accomplish that end!..I'm sorry, but I don't see a 40 ft. wide tennis racket, meant to stop ALL shots from getting by

 

[one stroke]

I'm curious as to why some keep saying that jump shots were never meant to be a part of pool. Was it at any time stated in the rules somewhere that the CB must never leave the bed of the table?

Were is it stated cars are meant to be driven on the ground

 

[SJDinPHX]

Were is it stated cars are meant to be driven on the ground

Mr. One stroke....Please do not try and make Mr.Lvr look foolish!..He is just grasping at straws, and trying to make some sense of his outlandish claims!

PS..I am sure he and Barton, will eventually see the error of their ways..(or NOT) :boring2: :boring2: :boring2:

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I like jump cues.

Steve, I tried one of your newest jump cues with the extension. My friend Cleiton Rocha had it. I have a Jacoby and must admit I absolutely love it. I tried one of your older style jump cues and liked it a lot, and the workmanship was fantastic. However the Jacoby suited me a bit better so at the time I went for that.

I will say that your new jump cue design is a BIG improvement. That thing is absolutely ridiculous when you have a bit of distance to the ball. It is much better than the previous generations when you are up really close to the interfering ball as well.

So anyway, if anyone in this thread has decided they need to go out and buy a nice (and I mean *NICE*) jump cue, I would strongly recommend taking a look at Steve's cues. Beautiful top tier custom cue work, and performance that is as good or better than anything out there.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Kicking is easier when it comes to simply making a legal hit. Are you even paying attention?

However, a smart player isn't always looking for the easiest option. No, they'll choose whichever option gives them the best chance of making the ball or getting safe.

Very good post!

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Nothing wrong with the cue ball "leaving the bed of the table"!..The infraction comes, with designing a specific cue, (and tip) meant to accomplish that end!..I'm sorry, but I don't see a 40 ft. wide tennis racket, meant to stop ALL shots from getting by

You don't see a 40 ft wide tennis racket because the rules don't allow it, or because it would be so cumbersome that the player wouldn't really be able to use it? I mean, if I'm holding some giant heavy thing on my forehand, and a top pro tennis player drills a 140mph serve to my backhand...I really don't see how a giant racket would be much advantage. Kinda like you don't see really tall lanky guys in heavyweight boxing based on their "huge reach advantage".

It seems like at certain times you are saying jump shots in general are against the integrity of the game, and other times you are only saying jump cues are bad. Do you think jump shots of all kinds should be banned? Or only jump cues?

How about this question: suppose jump cues are banned. Can I jump with my break cue? If that isn't allowed, and I have to jump with my playing cue, am I allowed to have a second leather tipped playing cue of standard length to jump with, since I use a 314-2 shaft which doesn't jump worth a crap lol? Just curious what your position is.

Thanks,

KMRUNOUT

 

[JB Cases]

The problem is that the BCA had become a trade org and not a body for the promotion and betterment (read protection) of pool.

20 years get over it doesn't make it right. Ask those who have been suppressed for tears that it's ok because of length of oppression.

The game was not meant to be an air-based adventure.

Regards

Nick B

Doesn't matter, back then they made rules, the WPA made the rules and frankly the majority of the jump cue debate was settled by The Texas Express tour which evaluated it and set the standard used today. At one point TE had something like 100 tournaments a year around the country iirc.

More than 60 world championships have been contested with these jump cue rules. 20+ european championships, 20 US Opens. 20 Japan Opens. 20 Mosconi Cups. 100+ international League championships between the BCA and VNEA. Countless national tournaments. Dozens of WPA sanctioned events.

Thousands of local and regional tournaments in that time span which follow the World Rules and allow jump cues.

Millions of players successfully and effectively use them every day. The jump cue question is long settled and those who don't allow them are partially responsible for the fact that pool isn't growing. Anyone who screws around with the rules and doesn't allow an essential piece of equipment allowed by the World Pool Association isn't truly interested in seeing pool grow, they are only interested in seeing their own event grow and showing off their own personal bias IMO. And this includes men I admire greatly otherwise who are otherwise awesome promoters. On the jump cue question they are dead wrong IMO and part of the reason this is even being discussed at all in the USA.

It's non-issue everywhere else in the world.

 

[JB Cases]

John..Sorry, but a 'jump shot', is not a pool shot!..It is simply a 'cop out', and a way to avoid the fact that you cannot hit the ball with any other legitimate method!..It completely negates the reason for playing a safety in the first place!..If real competitive pool were meant to be played that way, why have any rules at all?..Lets just shoot the other guys ball in, and duck! (Oh wait, 'ball in hand' was intended to avoid that option )

PS..Yes, a certain amount of skill is involved, in executing a successful 'jump shot'!..But it pales in comparison to being able to kick 1, 2, 3 or more rails accurately...(See Efren Reyes!!!) ..Plus, in case you haven't noticed, he does not need a cue stick specifically designed for anything other than playing the game as it was intended!

Funny because jump shots were described in pool books a century ago. I like to cite my sources so I will have to go through the old books I have to verify that but I am 90% sure I am right.

You know as well as I do that cue sticks themselves have undergone lots of changes in the past 150 years and even lots of changes since the 50s. No one considers the cues from the 50s to be comfortable, well balanced cues suitable for high level play today.

Tips have evolved, shafts have evolved, rubber is better, cloth is better, chalk is better. And a cue just for jumping is a better solution than awkwardly trying to jump with a full cue. Full cues which have widely differing levels of "jumpability".

Jump cues pretty much all have the same level of jumpability so it makes the shot truly a matter of skill rather than a matter of whether the player's full cue is suited to jumping or not, or whether the player has a height advantage or not.

As for being a cop out.....really? Tell me how in the world jacking up and shooting blind into the table bed is EASIER than shooting comfortably with a level cue? Even with a jump cue the player is forced into a contorted position and this is somehow easier and a cop out to take on a shot from that position?

Is a masse' a cop out too? Why isn't a kick a cop out?

I mean if you want to discuss cop outs then one foul ball in hand rules are a cop out if we are talking about how the "game" was supposed to be played. Notice no one is crying about that rule now. You know as well as I do that players across America *****ed and moaned about people playing safe and the incoming player not being able to push out when Texas Express rules started getting used everywhere. Players whined about lucky safes when the shooter missed. The jump shot became so much more necessary and used after one foul came into prominence. Before that it was purely offensive in that some players who were good at it would push to a jump shot and dare you to take it knowing that either you weren't good enough to take the shot OR your cue sucked for jumping and you couldn't take it.

But again, all this "discussion" is just bar talk because it ultimately means nothing and won't change anything. Jump cues and jumping are part of pool now and will stay that way. However you did it in the 70s is long gone.

 

[JB Cases]

Mr. One stroke....Please do not try and make Mr.Lvr look foolish!..He is just grasping at straws, and trying to make some sense of his outlandish claims!

PS..I am sure he and Barton, will eventually see the error of their ways..(or NOT) :boring2: :boring2: :boring2:

There is no error on my part.

I sold jump cues that are legal and a good addition to the modern game. I feel that they add a ton more shots to the game and that's not a bad thing in any way. Audiences EVERYWHERE love to see jump shots and they clap no less enthusiastically when the shot is made using a jump cue or a full cue.

If there are pros who don't want jump cues then they should lobby to have the rules changed but until then the question of jump cues has been settled for 20 years.

In 20 more years it won't even be remembered that anyone had any objection to them.