Who Spends More In the poolrooms?

[Johnnyt]

Who spends more money while in a poolroom, league or everyday player? I believe the table time for league members is much less than the regular guy/gal that comes in for a few hours or more almost everyday.

My point is do the regulars spend less than league? Johnnyt

 

[justadub]

We don't have proper pool rooms here (yet, supposedly one opening in a couple months) but when you factor in booze and food purchases where we play, league players for sure.

And that's really what you're looking for, right? $$$ spent, not just table time?

 

[336Robin]

Unless you track food and beverage

That's going to be hard to track unless you develop a computer program to do so by table.

Ive seen league players drink water out of the water fountain and pay their pool league match and pay nothing else then Ive seen teams that drank and ate like there was no tomorrow.

I think as a general rule the league players would leave less money in the owners pockets as a whole because they have already just paid their league match fees butt hat is in itself beside the point if that is the only crowd you can get in the room.

Marketing is something that pool room owners haven't been real good at, so when you think of it that way, they fact that the pool league player is there and you have a chance to make some money off of his presence without having to go out and chance him down, then you start to see value in him.

I would say overall they might spend less than a regular customer but in the absence of customers, you have to take what you can get.[/SIZE]

Who spends more money while in a poolroom, league or everyday player? I believe the table time for league members is much less than the regular guy/gal that comes in for a few hours or more almost everyday.

My point is do the regulars spend less than league? Johnnyt

 

[whammo57]

That's going to be hard to track unless you develop a computer program to do so by table.

Ive seen league players drink water out of the water fountain and pay their pool league match and pay nothing else then Ive seen teams that drank and ate like there was no tomorrow.

I think as a general rule the league players would leave less money in the owners pockets as a whole because they have already just paid their league match fees butt hat is in itself beside the point if that is the only crowd you can get in the room.

Marketing is something that pool room owners haven't been real good at, so when you think of it that way, they fact that the pool league player is there and you have a chance to make some money off of his presence without having to go out and chance him down, then you start to see value in him.

I would say overall they might spend less than a regular customer but in the absence of customers, you have to take what you can get.[/SIZE]

I disagree........... I see the regulars that gambol buy nothing but water........ the league players buy beer and liquor as well as eat.............. with out league players most pool halls would fold..............


Kim

 

[336Robin]

Lots of demographics in pool

I disagree........... I see the regulars that gambol buy nothing but water........ the league players buy beer and liquor as well as eat.............. with out league players most pool halls would fold..............


Kim

Yeah if your regular customers are gamblers I would agree. I don't even consider that gamblers are customers, they spend so little.

I look at a regular as someone that is learning to play pool. If you don't have some of those in the pipeline then youre hurting sure enough.

 

[Swighey]

It depends.Depends on location, local income levels, how many characters with cash to spend hang around said hall, interest in pool in the locality as a bit of fun/something that the cool folk do/way out of this grot hole, etc.

In team pool, one team can turn up and drink next to nothing and two weeks later for your next home game it can be throw as much money over the bar as we possibly can.

The reality though, in much of the US and the UK and many other countries, is that making pool something that community minded members of the local community come together to play for love or money is a hard sell. But the venue needs to engage in the selling and the community if it wants to survive - hence the need to provide good food, booze, etc. There are surely a few locations where a pretty much pool only venue will survive for the foreseeable future but then what......

 

[miscrewed89]

Really good thread, by the way!

One thing you also must consider. The action players who come in and play for hours on end, yeah, they might just drink water, or a coke, or an energy drink, but their table rental is 100% profit! There is no 6000% liquor tax, or 200% mark up on tomatoes, it's 100% profit. Also, when those guys start playing, usually a crowd will gather. It may be 2 sweaters, or it may end up being 10, 20, or even 50. Now, what are those 50 people going to do while they are sweating a good match, especially if they're betting on the side? Yeah, they're going to eat, drink, and be merry!

Another reason not to snub the action players: the youngsters who come in and see these guys running racks, shooting 8 and outs in one pocket, putting up 100 ball runs in straight pool, want to learn from them. These are the guys who light the fire under the up and comers. Because of them, the newbies will come in and practice more often, and for longer, and do what else? Yep, eat and probably drink!

The rumor of pool players not spending any money is old and tired. There is reason to have those guys around. Too many owners and managers don't want to look at the big picture. They just want to look at the guy without a beer in his hand and treat him like a waste of space. These guys keep POOL alive. And it is a POOL ROOM, after all, right?

 

[Johnnyt]

We don't have proper pool rooms here (yet, supposedly one opening in a couple months) but when you factor in booze and food purchases where we play, league players for sure.

And that's really what you're looking for, right? $$$ spent, not just table time?

Yes, looking for $$$ spent and if leagues are worth giving a discount or free pool. Johnnyt

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I think the "players vs. eaters/drinkers" thing is backwards - table time has the bigger profit margin by miles. If you could sell table time without offering food and drink every pool room owner would do it. The only reason league players are profitable is because those tables would be empty without them, and selling food/drinks is better than not selling anything.

pj
chgo

 

[Goldcues]

In our area the bars with pool tables are killing the old fashioned pool rooms (no booze and only a snack bar at best).
The league players are used to playing for free at the bars, even free practice in a lot of cases, and expect the same from the pool rooms. That model doesn't work at all for the old fashioned pool rooms that don't sell booze or include restaurants.
Those pool rooms must charge table time. That is basically all they sell.
So around here the league players offer very little to the room owners.

 

[336Robin]

Players Pay yes

Yes when gambling is going on they do pay their time and they may eat or get something to drink when they are working but it is minimal. It is a demographic with pure profit but little of it, this is true.

I think the "players vs. eaters/drinkers" thing is backwards - table time has the bigger profit margin by miles. If you could sell table time without offering food and drink every pool room owner would do it. The only reason league players are profitable is because those tables would be empty without them, and selling food/drinks is better than not selling anything.

pj
chgo

This sounds good but the one thing I have yet to really see is people watching the action. If there isn't an arena set up, there isn't a lot of room to watch the action. Here on the East Coast there might be two places I know of that is set up for this. The pool leaguers don't generally watch other players play and this might be a reason. It sounds good but I rarely see this happening. I will agree they are a demographic that one can do things for and market to but only if you are getting a green fee. I have looked into portable risers for something like this and they cost a bit but most places don't have the floor space for them because they didn't plan their layout that way.

You are unfortunately right about some owners attitudes toward customers and the absence of drinks in their hands.

Really good thread, by the way!

One thing you also must consider. The action players who come in and play for hours on end, yeah, they might just drink water, or a coke, or an energy drink, but their table rental is 100% profit! There is no 6000% liquor tax, or 200% mark up on tomatoes, it's 100% profit. Also, when those guys start playing, usually a crowd will gather. It may be 2 sweaters, or it may end up being 10, 20, or even 50. Now, what are those 50 people going to do while they are sweating a good match, especially if they're betting on the side? Yeah, they're going to eat, drink, and be merry!

Another reason not to snub the action players: the youngsters who come in and see these guys running racks, shooting 8 and outs in one pocket, putting up 100 ball runs in straight pool, want to learn from them. These are the guys who light the fire under the up and comers. Because of them, the newbies will come in and practice more often, and for longer, and do what else? Yep, eat and probably drink!

The rumor of pool players not spending any money is old and tired. There is reason to have those guys around. Too many owners and managers don't want to look at the big picture. They just want to look at the guy without a beer in his hand and treat him like a waste of space. These guys keep POOL alive. And it is a POOL ROOM, after all, right?

 

[Banks]

Yes, looking for $$$ spent and if leagues are worth giving a discount or free pool. Johnnyt

Ask a bar/hall owner how they'd feel about league on their slow nights. Pretty rare in these parts for one to be turned away, unless the place is normally busy Sunday through Thursday somehow.

Even if they don't all eat and drink, you've got up to 16 people crowding around two tables. That people are in a business is usually enough to help draw in more customers. If you can get half of them to be ordering food and drink, that's up to 8 orders for two tables. On top of that, it's advertising.. you're getting people from elsewhere to come in and check out the place.

Then again, this is pool we're talking about - where making bad business decisions is a way of life.

Also, the two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[skip100]

I'm in two leagues. In one of them people drink like there's no tomorrow, ordering shots and rounds all night and the winner of each match is expected to buy the loser the beverage of their choice. These are full-price, expensive drinks downtown ($4 PBR, everything else is $6-8 or more). Tuesday nights have to be their biggest weekday money makers.

In the other league people are stingy and order pitchers of water or Diet Coke. It's all night happy hour and half off food and drink for league players so I can't imagine the hall makes much money from them even when they do order. They also got rid of the greens fee. That said, it does seem like stingy league players are better than no players at all, and you do see league people there at other times paying for tables.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

In our area the bars with pool tables are killing the old fashioned pool rooms (no booze and only a snack bar at best).
The league players are used to playing for free at the bars, even free practice in a lot of cases, and expect the same from the pool rooms. That model doesn't work at all for the old fashioned pool rooms that don't sell booze or include restaurants.
Those pool rooms must charge table time. That is basically all they sell.
So around here the league players offer very little to the room owners.

I'm afraid the pool-only model is going the way of the Dodo (extinct). The successful pool halls I see these days combine pool, food, drink, TV screens and even live entertainment - anything to get people to hang out and maybe play pool, where the big profit margin is.

pj
chgo

 

[ctyhntr]

At my favorite poolhall, the owner offers power-plays (all day specials) every day from opening until 5pm. Sundays through Thursday nights are booked with leagues, and Friday/Saturday nights cater towards social/casual crowd.

Drinking with the owner one night, he confided he makes roughly the same amount of from each customer segment. Meaning a couple on a Friday night date is as profitable as as a weekly league player. It takes a month to make the same money back from a hard core player.

Another poolhall where I used to play league, the owner doesn't even bother opening before 3/4pm on weekdays. The owner can't justify the expense of running an extra 28 hours during the day. He concentrates on leagues, tournaments and weekend crowd.

What is the crowd breakdown where you play pool?

 

[medallio]

In my general area the pool halls had to diversify to survive. They are more like bars/pool halls. Entertainment on weekends. Nfl game days etc etc

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Another poolhall where I used to play league, the owner doesn't even bother opening before 3/4pm on weekdays. The owner can't justify the expense of running an extra 28 hours during the day.

Payroll is the biggest expense, even more than rent usually. My pool hall went from 10AM opening to 3PM opening during the week for the same reason. It also might mean the owner has to work a shift (or two) himself.

pj
chgo

P.S. Food/drink require much more staffing than pool.

 

[Pushout]

Where I played for almost 25 years, it was the regulars/gamblers who spent the most, by far. There were only two or three leagues in the place and I started/ran one of them. It helps to have first class food, even it it's hamburgers/cheeseburgers/hot dogs, with a side or two. Best, and for years, the cheapest coffee in the Triple Cities. The players bought food, drink, cues, cases, etc., far more than the casual crowd. Nationally organized leagues didn't appear until after I moved in '97.

 

[vagabond]

In my experience I found that the League players buy beer,food etc. The regular player may buy a bottle of water in the whole day or a cup of coffee and get refills of coffee. Over all, the league players spend more money. I did not see the so called big action games with many rail birds increasing any sales in the pool room. The rail birds may buy a bag of potato chips from the machine and produce annoying crinkle sound to shark the player against whom he put a bet.

 

[lorider]

reading the replies posted so far it seems the answer depends on the demographic in your area.

i am going to give you 2 versions of my obversations in my area.

we used to have 5 pool halls in our area and now only have 4.

short version..the only pool hall that did not cater to leagues closed. you can draw your own conclusion as to why but it seems obvious to me.



long version so you can see the added benefits leagues. the most succesful pool hall in town welcomes all leagues . he hosts in house...apa...napa..and a traveling money league. the only one in town that does so.

he opens his tables for free play before and after matches....the only one that does so.

when he closes the tables before the matches start he hands each team a roll of quarters to use.....the only one in town that does so.

when i inquired about him hosting a money league team at his room he told me they charged a 100.00 yearly fee and he pais it. ...the only one in town that does so.

now why do you reckon he does that for leagues on his own free will?

i will tell you why.

because it has allowed him to add 3 diamond tables and 2 valleys recently and would have added more but he does not have the room. the only one in town that has added tables

he has put on money added pro tournaments and has had them streamed. the only one in town that has done so.

he has sponsored pros in tournaments . the only one in town that has done so.

when bdfdland had his tour with archer and ...duel ? he hosted them not once but twice....he paid them to come back when their deal fell through at another hall in mississippi. the only one in town to do so.

last but not least ....the only one in town to host the black widow.:thumbup:

now i am not a rocket scientist but it seems obvious to me that he could not add tables and do the things he has done for pros without the income he has generated from the league players he welcomes with open arms....again the only one in town to do so.


oh yea.....the only one in town that recovers his tables in a timely manner .

one last thing...having been personally involved with a few people that work in pool halls they have told me that league players and kids are the biggest spenders and tip the best.