FARGO Ratings

mikepage said:
You can look up players at farrmatch.fargorate.com. This is a beta version of what will become a mobile app.

Let me explain the new "starter rating" thing. Nothing has changed about our optimization, and all players with greater than 200 games in the system (robustness of 200+) see the same thing they saw before. What has changed is what we display for unestablished players (those with no games or with up to 199 games in the system).

First, let me explain how the optimization itself treats unestablished players. Suppose you, a new player, play your friend, an established player, 500 games. Your friend wins 400 to 100. The optimization will say your rating is 200 points below the rating of your friend. This is fine.

But suppose you as a new player instead play only 5 games against a different friend with an established rating, and you lose 4-1. The optimization in this case will also put you 200 points below your friend (because you lost at a 4 to 1 ratio). But in this case your robustness is only 5, and your rating is likely unreliable. It's more likely you're closer to your friend than that and we are seeing a statistical fluctuation. The performance rating from the optimization is volatile for players with only a few games. We used to display "?" for players with fewer than 35 games and the actual performance rating for players with 35 or more games.

Now we have assigned every unestablished player a "starter rating." This is 525 for most people. Then what is displayed in fairmatch for unestablished players is a transitional rating; it is a weighted average of the starter rating and the performance rating. If a player has 20 games (10% of the 200 required for an established rating), the starter rating is weighted 90%. If a player has 180 games (90% of the 200 required for an established rating), the starter rating is weighted 10%, i.e., is almost forgotten.

The bold ratings below are the established ratings. These players have more than 200 games in the system.

Duane Hole has 179 games, so his displayed transitional rating of 544 is determined almost entirely from performance. For Bobby Yolo and Michael Cometsevah, the ratings are determined about half from the starter rating and half from actual performance. Notice these two have starter ratings different from the most common 525. This is because Bobby Yolo was classified "master" and Michael C was classified "leisure" by CSI.

Male Open and female Advanced are given starter ratings of 525. Male Advanced 625; female open, 425, etc. The default for everyone else is 525. As people unestablished play more, the rating becomes more and more based on performance and eventually is is based entirely on performance
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What is definition of robustness? Is that simply games played?
 
Banks said:
No problem.

The thing is filled with names now, but you can use partial words to assist the search. Instead of looking for John Jingleheimerschmidt, you can search john jingl. So, if your search turns up too many, it's easy to narrow it down a bit. I think that you can also highlight the stars next to the names to create a favorites list that you can bring up fro, the main page, so you can keep up with friends, favorite players or potential action.
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We have him listed as John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_imuS5oh84
 
By the way, I was a 571 two days ago -- now I am a 568. And I haven't played a game of pool in a week.

I also have a score of 525 - which I like even better.
 
I looked up some friends in league and they have starter ratings of 400. Others have a starter rating of 525, and others 625.
 
watchez said:
By the way, I was a 571 two days ago -- now I am a 568. And I haven't played a game of pool in a week.

I also have a score of 525 - which I like even better.
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See the explanation in post 66. You have performed for 187 games at 571-speed. This is 94% of the way toward having an established rating. Net result is there remains a small influence of the 525 started rating, enough to drop you a couple points. One more tournament, and you'll be established.
 
mikepage said:
Yes, that's right. It's a crude measure of the reliability of the rating.
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Another question, for how this effects BCAPL --- let's say I quit my job, buy a diamond table, practice 8 hours a day, take lessons, put a $25 tip on my cue and after all of that I am playing better. I go out to the BCAPL and I win a bunch of single matches. Would my rating change while I am there or am I locked in for the time during July in Vega$?
 
Mr. Page,
Were any of the very competitive matches from the Texas Tornado Open (Sept. 30 - Oct. 4, 2015) put into the Fargo database?
 
I think either CSI or Fargo thinks I am female. One of my secret questions was something like, did you play in one of there tournaments. Most were women's divisions or mixed partners. LOL

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
watchez said:
Another question, for how this effects BCAPL --- let's say I quit my job, buy a diamond table, practice 8 hours a day, take lessons, put a $25 tip on my cue and after all of that I am playing better. I go out to the BCAPL and I win a bunch of single matches. Would my rating change while I am there or am I locked in for the time during July in Vega$?
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Regardless of the answer to this question, you should do this lol
 
cleary said:
So are these games that you use to measure being held a secret or can the general public see who has played who?
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Fairmatch.fargorate.com is a beta version of a mobile app. There is no match lookup feature in fairmatch, but we are working on incorporating one into the app. A player will be able to query his or her own match history but not that of others.
 
cleary said:
So are these games that you use to measure being held a secret or can the general public see who has played who?
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In case he doesn't answer this, what he's said before is that you'll be able to see your own history, but I think the implication was that you won't have access to everyone's.

Maybe there's some privacy issue with league players, but I wonder about the pro side, where the public events they play in wouldn't have the same privacy issues. It would be nice to see the history of matches, and see who is in the overall lead in a particular matchup, like Darren vs. Shane.

It sure is fun to ask app developers to implement your favorite features. I could do it all day.
 
mikepage said:
Fairmatch.fargorate.com is a beta version of a mobile app. There is no match lookup feature in fairmatch, but we are working on incorporating one into the app. A player will be able to query his or her own match history but not that of others.
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Why wouldn't you make it so I can see everyone's history?

Also, how do you come up with a rating number for a league match that was handicapped? A bunch of league players who only play each other, how can you slap a number on them without some sort of baseline?
 
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Wow! So many Fargo Rate threads. I'll post my question here since it seems to be the most active.

Mr. Page,
Is there a way for a local pool hall who has small Monthly and big yearly tournaments to submit data from those tournaments to 'help' local players without established or weak ratings?

It has been slightly touched upon on other threads, but never answered.

I agree that one of the conditions should be the tournament data [brackets] must be available online so all 'peers' and players of said tournament could dispute any inaccurate data. But, beyond that, what could a local pool hall that has tournaments, that have a few players with a low robustness and 1 or 2 with a well established rating, do to submit data?
Does FargoRate have a preference on data format? Is there a particular web site the data can be entered into?

All FargoRate arguments aside, FargoRate is here and it is going to be used. Case in point, 2016 BCA Nationals. How can we, those places that use a different system, start getting our data in the FargoRate system?
 
Masseyman said:
Wow! So many Fargo Rate threads. I'll post my question here since it seems to be the most active.

Mr. Page,
Is there a way for a local pool hall who has small Monthly and big yearly tournaments to submit data from those tournaments to 'help' local players without established or weak ratings?

It has been slightly touched upon on other threads, but never answered.

I agree that one of the conditions should be the tournament data [brackets] must be available online so all 'peers' and players of said tournament could dispute any inaccurate data. But, beyond that, what could a local pool hall that has tournaments, that have a few players with a low robustness and 1 or 2 with a well established rating, do to submit data?
Does FargoRate have a preference on data format? Is there a particular web site the data can be entered into?

All FargoRate arguments aside, FargoRate is here and it is going to be used. Case in point, 2016 BCA Nationals. How can we, those places that use a different system, start getting our data in the FargoRate system?
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure there is a whole system coming that ties into Fargo Ratings. You use the system to run your tournament then all the data is automatically updated to Fargo. As well there are league and mobile scoring apps coming too..
 
A lot of interesting questions which I think is awesome. As soon as you start playing, within FargoRate, and utilizing fair match you will understand how realistic it is.

I understand the concept but have no clue on the math behind it, which doesn't matter to me because it works.

I can't wait to read comments on it after you all have time and games under your belt


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bwally said:
I am pretty sure there is a whole system coming that ties into Fargo Ratings.......
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Mr. Page, can you validate this?

No offense bwally, I would like a bit more of a concrete answer and hope you are right.
Some of us who go to Vegas nationals year after year aren't happy with a "default" rating as compared to those who have been playing in the FargoRate system with a well established rating.

I could complain, or I could find a way to to get a more accurate rating.
Complaining has almost never got me anywhere, Rolling up my sleeves and getting down to business has.
 
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