Darren Appleton's comments on 9 on spot/ cue ball fouls/ pattern racking

spartan

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Darren Appleton posted on Facebook his thoughts on 9 ball - racking 9 on spot/ cue ball fouls/ pattern racking.
I agree with him that 9 should be on spot (like Matchroom events-Mosconi Cup and WCOP) . Should also be all balls foul because we do not want players "deliberately" touching and moving other balls :).
Not sure about pattern racking though - if it is allowed , then maybe other players may have to learn it to get up to speed. But should pattern racking be allowed? IMHO, best is to have referee rack/ neutral racker then no pattern racking issues :D
What do you think?

https://www.facebook.com/darrendynamiteappleton/posts/1099423576744879

Some people miss understand what I was saying yesterday so I deleted the post on my personal page .
But 9ball rules in USA is nonsense
I don't have a problem racking your own balls I've won big events including back to back us opens racking my own balls so I know i can rack Good enough to give myself a chance to win. I don't know as much as some players about racking i.e. Which gaps to leave to guarantee a ball and cueball placement for the break etc, but I know enough.
But the rules at the derby for the 9ball are wrong and most of the players agree with me .
I understand we got to rack our own balls it's much better than rack your opponents like turning stone that's just a ridiculous rule.
But to rack your own balls with one ball on the spot and 9ball counts on the break is utter nonsense fact . And I see loads of them. And because balls are so hard to get froze almost impossible the 9ball if doesn't go in the pocket it lands very close to the pocket a lot ,so lot of racks are done after a couple of shots also. That's not pool and none of us want to play this way.Fact
Also pattern racking is not allowed but most players do it anyway which is wrong .
And cueball fouls only is wrong at professional level. Anywhere else in the world it's a foul .
Doesn't matter what rules we play the best players will still win and that's good ..
It's not about that it's about playing to the official rules for 9ball WPA. 1 ball on spot or 9ball on spot doesn't matter best players will still win .
But let's make the game a level playing field before shake hands with opponent and a little tougher and better on the eye ..
Not knocking any players Shane ,Dennis ,Alex ,Ko,s etc etc they all monsters and will win any rules .
But some got more knowledge of the rack than others and that's fair play to them . No problem with that.
Shane's prob the best rotation player in the world right now and breaks the best so whatever rules he plays his always one of the favs ..
Again it's not about that it's about changing the stupid rule that if racking your own balls and 9ball counts is absolute nonsense and no place in the game for it. With the rules they play the 9ball should be spotted after every break and 1000% should be if goes in the pocket . And pattern racking needs to be cut out of the game .. Change those two rules and I'm fine with everything else. 2 ball should be placed at the back rest of balls random.
rest of world play all ball fouls most 9 on the spot with template so everyone gets the same rack. And u very rarely see the 9ball go in from the break and barely moves from its spot unless gets kissed . And lot of events now it doesn't count on the break anyway.. This is proper 9ball rules
The games moved on now level too high and the game should be made tougher not easier. But USA are stuck in old school 9ball that's ok back then players didn't have a clue about the rack etc now all the guys know everything about racking that's fine .. But we need to play by the official world rules .. That's all I'm asking for. If opponent racks or referee racks and 9ball goes in off the break and it counts fine that's the way the cookie crumbles .. But rack your own and count is bullshit.
And I know 90% of the players agree with me. It will make the game cleaner and more enjoyable for the spectators and the players .
I watched around 3 hrs of 9ball other day it's the worst form of 9ball I've ever seen.. At least 20 9balls from the break and key moments and at least 50 racks were done with 2-9 3-9 combos etc.
Was aweful to watch
Over and out


:D
 
Darren Appleton posted on Facebook his thoughts on 9 ball - racking 9 on spot/ cue ball fouls/ pattern racking.
I agree with him that 9 should be on spot (like Matchroom events-Mosconi Cup and WCOP) . Should also be all balls foul because we do not want players "deliberately" touching and moving other balls :).
Not sure about pattern racking though - if it is allowed , then maybe other players may have to learn it to get up to speed. But should pattern racking be allowed? IMHO, best is to have referee rack/ neutral racker then no pattern racking issues :D
What do you think?

https://www.facebook.com/darrendynamiteappleton/posts/1099423576744879

Some people miss understand what I was saying yesterday so I deleted the post on my personal page .
But 9ball rules in USA is nonsense
I don't have a problem racking your own balls I've won big events including back to back us opens racking my own balls so I know i can rack Good enough to give myself a chance to win. I don't know as much as some players about racking i.e. Which gaps to leave to guarantee a ball and cueball placement for the break etc, but I know enough.
But the rules at the derby for the 9ball are wrong and most of the players agree with me .
I understand we got to rack our own balls it's much better than rack your opponents like turning stone that's just a ridiculous rule.
But to rack your own balls with one ball on the spot and 9ball counts on the break is utter nonsense fact . And I see loads of them. And because balls are so hard to get froze almost impossible the 9ball if doesn't go in the pocket it lands very close to the pocket a lot ,so lot of racks are done after a couple of shots also. That's not pool and none of us want to play this way.Fact
Also pattern racking is not allowed but most players do it anyway which is wrong .
And cueball fouls only is wrong at professional level. Anywhere else in the world it's a foul .
Doesn't matter what rules we play the best players will still win and that's good ..
It's not about that it's about playing to the official rules for 9ball WPA. 1 ball on spot or 9ball on spot doesn't matter best players will still win .
But let's make the game a level playing field before shake hands with opponent and a little tougher and better on the eye ..
Not knocking any players Shane ,Dennis ,Alex ,Ko,s etc etc they all monsters and will win any rules .
But some got more knowledge of the rack than others and that's fair play to them . No problem with that.
Shane's prob the best rotation player in the world right now and breaks the best so whatever rules he plays his always one of the favs ..
Again it's not about that it's about changing the stupid rule that if racking your own balls and 9ball counts is absolute nonsense and no place in the game for it. With the rules they play the 9ball should be spotted after every break and 1000% should be if goes in the pocket . And pattern racking needs to be cut out of the game .. Change those two rules and I'm fine with everything else. 2 ball should be placed at the back rest of balls random.
rest of world play all ball fouls most 9 on the spot with template so everyone gets the same rack. And u very rarely see the 9ball go in from the break and barely moves from its spot unless gets kissed . And lot of events now it doesn't count on the break anyway.. This is proper 9ball rules
The games moved on now level too high and the game should be made tougher not easier. But USA are stuck in old school 9ball that's ok back then players didn't have a clue about the rack etc now all the guys know everything about racking that's fine .. But we need to play by the official world rules .. That's all I'm asking for. If opponent racks or referee racks and 9ball goes in off the break and it counts fine that's the way the cookie crumbles .. But rack your own and count is bullshit.
And I know 90% of the players agree with me. It will make the game cleaner and more enjoyable for the spectators and the players .
I watched around 3 hrs of 9ball other day it's the worst form of 9ball I've ever seen.. At least 20 9balls from the break and key moments and at least 50 racks were done with 2-9 3-9 combos etc.
Was aweful to watch
Over and out


:D

Neutral/ref racking is impossible from a financial standpoint. Rack your own, 9 spots or doesn't count on the break is just fine. 2 ball at the bottom too. If your opponent is pattern racking, take a "bathroom break" talk to the TD and have somebody watch your opponents racking. The rest is history. You shouldn't be able to get racked by your opponent or by a ref. It makes no sense.
 
I hope DCC adopts the official WPA rules. To have a major tournament using locally made-up rules is not good.

And there really has to be a standard for 9 ball racking/breaking. I think 9 on the spot is good and the rack has to be tight. I think the latter requires a template.
 
I agree with fouls on all balls. I don't agree with 9 on the spot. At the point of sounding belligerent I really don't care what Matchroom does. The game shouldn't be changed & I think the level of play recently at Turning Stone & DCC more than support that winner breaks, 1 on the spot, Golden Break is good leads to great tournaments with exciting pool.

As far as pattern racking I believe 1 on spot, 9 middle and 2 on the bottom are consistent with all other balls being random to appease the whiners, pattern racking doesn't really bother me one way or another.

What bothers me is the incessant whine about 9 on the spot & alternating breaks from the international set, get better or get over it.
 
I read his original comment that he says has now been deleted, and I did think it sounded a bit like just complaining. But he does make some good points.

I just wonder about the 9 on the break. That seems to be the focus of his criticism. Is it really that common? Do we have stats on how common it was at the Derby 9-ball? I saw a couple, but it couldn't have been more than about 1/20 games. The fans love it when the 9-ball goes on the break. If it's only happening less than, say, 1/10 times, I don't have a problem with it, as a fan.
 
Of course Darren is right, but why doesn't the WPA stop it for all sanctioned tournaments for a start. Seems all they want is their fee. Johnnyt
 
regarding pattern racking

Since smart phones are ubiquitous, I'm sure someone has thought up a simple app that tournaments can use that spits out a random 9-ball racking pattern with push the of a button.

One requirement for the app is to record the amount of times the button is pushed for a given match, to prevent the racker from simply pushing the button repeatedly until he gets a desired pattern.

It would be used only if one of the players request it. Otherwise, if both players agree (or more like don't care), pattern racking should be allowed.
 
Since smart phones are ubiquitous, I'm sure someone has thought up a simple app that tournaments can use that spits out a random 9-ball racking pattern with push the of a button.

One requirement for the app is to record the amount of times the button is pushed for a given match, to prevent the racker from simply pushing the button repeatedly until he gets a desired pattern.

It would be used only if one of the players request it. Otherwise, if both players agree (or more like don't care), pattern racking should be allowed.

It is easier to have a sheet with the pattern to be used for each rack when the breaker has 0 wins, 1 win, 2 wins....
 
I agree with fouls on all balls. I don't agree with 9 on the spot. At the point of sounding belligerent I really don't care what Matchroom does. The game shouldn't be changed & I think the level of play recently at Turning Stone & DCC more than support that winner breaks, 1 on the spot, Golden Break is good leads to great tournaments with exciting pool.

As far as pattern racking I believe 1 on spot, 9 middle and 2 on the bottom are consistent with all other balls being random to appease the whiners, pattern racking doesn't really bother me one way or another.

What bothers me is the incessant whine about 9 on the spot & alternating breaks from the international set, get better or get over it.
At one Reno event it was rack your own. On one table the craters were such that the 9 would usually move towards the pocket. One player seemed really sorry that he made the 9 twice in a match on the break.

It's pretty obvious from all the commotion that there is a problem in 9 ball with the rack and break. This has been clear since we started getting tight racks. A loose rack is unfair to the breaker. A tight rack (1 on the spot) guarantees a wing ball. The solution is not clear.
 
The thing that got me was the cb only fouls. That just seems silly to me. Say two balls are frozen together and I shoot and some how swipe and tap one of those balls and unfreeze them... can anyone get them frozen exactly like they were before?

I also hate 9 ball counts on the break in any pocket but that's just because I would rather see a player use their skill and run out instead of lucking out on the break or knowing what gaps to leave.
 
What bothers me is the incessant whine about ... alternating breaks from the international set, get better or get over it.


Do you mean get LUCKIER or get over it? Alternating breaks increases the chance that the BETTER player will win, as opposed to the player who wins the coin flip or lag.

Thank you kindly.
 
The thing that got me was the cb only fouls. That just seems silly to me. Say two balls are frozen together and I shoot and some how swipe and tap one of those balls and unfreeze them... can anyone get them frozen exactly like they were before?

I also hate 9 ball counts on the break in any pocket but that's just because I would rather see a player use their skill and run out instead of lucking out on the break or knowing what gaps to leave.
But assuming you moved both of the balls that were frozen together, it is a foul. Moving two balls was a foul at DCC.
 
A loose rack is unfair to the breaker. A tight rack (1 on the spot) guarantees a wing ball. The solution is not clear.
That's my sense too, but people are always talking about the right gaps to make a ball - even Darren mentioned it in the quoted Facebook post.
 
Darrens original comment was completely out of line

he was/is one of my favorite players but lost respect for him lately
he complains a lot
it was his neck his lack of motivation, racking for each other now its racking your own, was magic rack it never ends

he has an excuse for everything

think he little peeved that Shaw has overtaken him as best GB player currently
also thought his comments were disrespectful to shane alex etc
 
But assuming you moved both of the balls that were frozen together, it is a foul. Moving two balls was a foul at DCC.


Okay, bad example, say I followed through longer than I should have and inadvertently clipped straight into a frozen ball so only moved that ball?

It just seems weird to me that a tournament at that level would be cb only fouls or any tournament for that matter. You can try your hardest to get that ball back right but it's tough to say exactly where it was and it can make a big difference in a game of mm's.
 
He's right rack your own & 9 counting on the break is wrong. Pattern racking is wrong, but every player from shorstop to pro does it.
 
Darren Appleton posted on Facebook

-Doesn't matter what rules we play the best players will still win and that's good ..
-It's not about that it's about playing to the official rules for 9ball WPA. 1 ball on spot or 9ball on spot doesn't matter best players will still win.


:D


Doesn't matter best players will still win?
 
9 ball rack

9 goes on the spot,all balls foul,9 counts on the break,no pattern racking,1 on head,9 in middle,2 in the back.2 shot push out rules.You break and make 2 balls and scratch,spot up the balls in numbered order and q ball behind the line and shooter can give the shot back.If u are shooting and scratch,ball in hand behind line and if u make a ball it gets spotted,and u can give the shot back to the shooter.The old rules are always the best.Then the jump cue may be used not so much.Or best like earl says jump with what u play with.rich aka the skunk.
 
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