(<5) Ball Ghost

[Keith Jawahir]

I've been working on something for a while now. We're all familiar with the 9/10-ball ghost. It's been suggested to me that I should start at the last 6, then add/subtract balls as necessary. Don't add another ball until you're over 75%.

I started at trying to run the last 6, then worked my way down. I've been at the point of breaking a 9-ball rack(and using it as break practice), then taking ball in hand and trying(unsuccessfully) to run the last 3.

I can now zip the 4-ball ghost in races to 11, but I keep going Hill-Hill with the last 5.
I do races to 5, then tally it up into races to 11 (ie; I win the first set 5-4, then lose 4-5, it's 9-9 and a race to 2 for the win). I focus more on pattern play(seeing 3-4 balls ahead) and position play than running out, yet keep losing Hill-Hill sets.

I guess my question is; is the 5-ball ghost some sort of barrier? I'm dumbfounded as to how one ball could make such a difference.

 

[Straightpool_99]

Before I start I would like to make it absolutely clear, that even though what I'm about to say may sound harsh, the intent is not to put you down or anything like that. I say it only to try to help you understand.

I'll answer your question first: Yes the 5 ball ghost is a barrier. With the 3 or 4 ball ghosts you don't need very good patterns or good execution, you can pretty much shoot your way out of trouble. Typically people will get more out of line on every shot until they break down. Typically for a C player that will be on the 5 ball ball in hand runout. They may be able to make some good shots, but they are unable to stay consistently in line, and so they will fail this simple test. Also they could be having problems with certain shots and even keeping focus to avoid missing. Typically though, the main culprit behind their breakdown is to leave themselves wrong angles, or more often too small of an angle, forcing them to power the ball and miss.

I don't think a player like that should even waste time on playing the ghost, other than as a periodic checkup to see where one stands. It would be much more productive use of time to work on drills SPECIFICALLY TARGETING THEIR WEAKNESSES.

I would humbly suggest trying this drill. Ball in hand on first shot. Start with the first 6. Rotate the balls but use positions 1-6. Then if that becomes too easy add the last 3 balls, again vary ball postions. If you can easily defeat this drill with the first 6 balls (in positons 1-6), then maybe try the ghost, or add the 3 last balls and master that first. If you can't, try using only 4 balls in positons 1-4. People scoff at this drill sometimes, but when it comes down to it, it is actually a pretty harsh test of ability. If you don't have the skills needed to beat the ghost, you will fail this drill more than you will complete it and on a tough table the difficulty is multiplied. There are endless variants of this drill, you can add obstacle balls, you can even create clusters using those extra balls, you can freeze the balls to the rail etc, the point is you have to move your cueball around, and having object balls close to the rail means that the angle on each shot is critical.

 

[WillyCornbread]

This is a good question and great answer, I was also 'stuck' at 5 balls for a few months and couldn't figure it out. I'm now at the point where I'm hill-hill on the 6 ball ghost more often than not, but losing 75% of those hill-hill matches.

I suppose I never gave much thought to the cumulative effect of getting out of line...

Anyway, not much to add other than wondering where others plateau'd and that this is a good reminder for me to do some drills and stop goofing off with the ghost every time I practice...

b

 

[MoneyMakin52]

Its all in your mind. Keep working with the 5 ball ghost. Have the confidence to beat it. What i did was work with the 5 ball ghost all month. Then move up to the 6 ball ghost at the end of the month. At the end of each month add a ball.

Also, when you do the 5 ball ghost make sure you are using the last 5 balls (9,8,7,6,5) so you can get use to running out those balls. When you move up add the 4 ball. That will train your mind to not get nervous when getting close to the money ball.

 

[WillyCornbread]

I looked on youtube trying to find someone completing this drill but was unsuccessful. Not surprisingly i suck at it.

What is the recommended / best way to navigate all of them? I found myself almost exclusively using low outside and trying to drag the ball through traffic on most shots...

b

 

[erhino41]

To me playing the ghost is just like playing a match. You may pick up small things here or there, but mostly it just points out your flaws. Your not gonna get a chance to practice a shot you struggled with until that shot comes again. That could be several racks later. It's just not very productive in addressing concepts you don't have full grasp of yet. Having said that, practicing in real game scenarios is extremely productive in teaching the critical thinking needed to assess the endless possibilities that exist. It can be a great exercise to play as you would the ghost, instead of re racking when you miss, set the shot up again and practice it until you get the concept, then continue your run. If a shot keeps giving you trouble practice that shot and others that apply the same concepts. I would do this with all nine balls on the table. There's no sense practicing nine ball with 5 balls on the table. I also try to incorporate safety play into this as well. I play any shot as I would in a real game scenario, the only difference is when I miss I try it again.

 

[drhanson]

Straitpool_99 gave some great advise. A variant of the rotation drill he diagrammed are the Billiard University Exams II - Skills section. In section S3 you will find 9-ball pattern drills in three different levels of progressive difficulty: Bachelor's, Masters and Doctorate. You can find them here: http://billiarduniversity.org/exams.html

A big benefit of the drills in the BU exams is that there are many videos of players taking the exam. Just watching the patterns chosen by the better players can be a big help. You can find a list of BU Exam results with links to videos of people taking the exam in the Sticky section of this forum. There's enough material there to keep you engaged on a path to continual improvement for a very long time.

 

[fathomblue]

Break the entire 9B rack. Pick off balls 1-4. THEN sticker up balls 5-9 with the white notebook reinforcement donuts. Take BIH and run them.

If you miss, just try to be mindful of where the CB was and place it back. The missed OB goes back on the donut. Analyze as to whether you missed because of bad shape leading to that ball, stroke error, focus, etc. Or multiple reasons. It's just you at the table, so it's important to be brutally honest with yourself.

If it was because of bad shape to that ball, then practice the shot that got you there. If it was a poor stroke, set up that shot and shoot it 15 times. At least. Burn that shot into memory. If it was a once-in-while focus issue, then you need to shoot that shot 50 times in a row. Preferably till you go 40, 45, or 50 for 50. This depends on whether it was a difficult, intermediate, or easy shot.

If you stick to this routine, you'll be owning shots that you've struggled with in the past.

You could sticker the CB after every shot to analyze your pattern after the rack, but that might keep you from getting into rhythm.

Also, I like to number the donuts 1-9 while they are still on the roll. You can use them over and over. Great for recreating racks.

 

[Keith Jawahir]

Before I start I would like to make it absolutely clear, that even though what I'm about to say may sound harsh, the intent is not to put you down or anything like that. I say it only to try to help you understand.

I'll answer your question first: Yes the 5 ball ghost is a barrier. With the 3 or 4 ball ghosts you don't need very good patterns or good execution, you can pretty much shoot your way out of trouble. Typically people will get more out of line on every shot until they break down. Typically for a C player that will be on the 5 ball ball in hand runout. They may be able to make some good shots, but they are unable to stay consistently in line, and so they will fail this simple test. Also they could be having problems with certain shots and even keeping focus to avoid missing. Typically though, the main culprit behind their breakdown is to leave themselves wrong angles, or more often too small of an angle, forcing them to power the ball and miss.

I don't think a player like that should even waste time on playing the ghost, other than as a periodic checkup to see where one stands. It would be much more productive use of time to work on drills SPECIFICALLY TARGETING THEIR WEAKNESSES.

I would humbly suggest trying this drill. Ball in hand on first shot. Start with the first 6. Rotate the balls but use positions 1-6. Then if that becomes too easy add the last 3 balls, again vary ball postions. If you can easily defeat this drill with the first 6 balls (in positons 1-6), then maybe try the ghost, or add the 3 last balls and master that first. If you can't, try using only 4 balls in positons 1-4. People scoff at this drill sometimes, but when it comes down to it, it is actually a pretty harsh test of ability. If you don't have the skills needed to beat the ghost, you will fail this drill more than you will complete it and on a tough table the difficulty is multiplied. There are endless variants of this drill, you can add obstacle balls, you can even create clusters using those extra balls, you can freeze the balls to the rail etc, the point is you have to move your cueball around, and having object balls close to the rail means that the angle on each shot is critical.

Tried to send a greenie but I need to spread love before I can rep you again. Thank you for the insight, very interesting. I've noticed during matches that I break down most frequently on the 7. I'm gonna take this drill to the practice table and work on it.

 

[Danimal]

Drills are ok. I used to spend a lot of time on them but they weren't the be all/end all for me.

A very strong local player advised me to throw the last five balls on the table and just runout, runout, runout. He said that it got you in the mode of finishing off racks and not putting undue pressure on the last balls. If you miss, leave the remaining balls on the table and throw the rest back out.

This is one of my main methods of practice in the days leading up to tournament prep (among other things). 5 balls makes you stay in line, and isn't too difficult nor discouraging for most serious players.

Around here, a good B player is the favorite with BIH and six balls on the table. If I'm getting out routinely with six I'll add the 7th or 8th ball for a challenge. That 6/7 ball ghost has been my barrier for a long long time.

 

[Keith Jawahir]

Finally did it last night, won 11-4. Gonna try it again tonight before moving up to 6. I focus more on playing proper patterns and controlling the cueball, which I'm now doing reliably. I did play in a league-ran tournament over the weekend. I just got moved up to a 7 and it was almost no adjustment for me, I made it all the way to the semifinals.

 

[Drop The Rock]

I have run out a full rack of 9 ball a few times on a 9 ft and run a 2 pack on an 8. What prevents me from repeating these fears is mostly mental but also working too hard. If you get out of line like I do then it's tough to keep making difficult shots. When I don't get out of line the shots are easier because I'm not forcing the cue ball to do anything unnecessary. One thing I know for sure is that the closer I am to the vertical axis, the more consistent I am.

 

[mcrisp]

This is a great drill. 6 pointed and the 9 pointed star. been doing this for years. bert kinister teaches this

 

[9andout]

I like this thread. Just subbin'.

 

[cueenvy]

I've been working on something for a while now. We're all familiar with the 9/10-ball ghost. It's been suggested to me that I should start at the last 6, then add/subtract balls as necessary. Don't add another ball until you're over 75%.

I started at trying to run the last 6, then worked my way down. I've been at the point of breaking a 9-ball rack(and using it as break practice), then taking ball in hand and trying(unsuccessfully) to run the last 3.

I can now zip the 4-ball ghost in races to 11, but I keep going Hill-Hill with the last 5.
I do races to 5, then tally it up into races to 11 (ie; I win the first set 5-4, then lose 4-5, it's 9-9 and a race to 2 for the win). I focus more on pattern play(seeing 3-4 balls ahead) and position play than running out, yet keep losing Hill-Hill sets.

I guess my question is; is the 5-ball ghost some sort of barrier? I'm dumbfounded as to how one ball could make such a difference.

If you remember back to school days the mathematics explain alot about failed runouts.

The odds of making a 4 ball runout at 85 percent of making each shot is 52 percent

The odds of making a 5 ball out at 90 percent per shot is 59 percent

The odds for a 5 ball out at 95 percent a ball is 77 percent.

To advance in rotation games you have to be getting out the last 4 or 5 balls at least 80 percent of the time or you'll lose often to even players who are weaker than you.

This is why being a great shot maker is so important.