Darren Appleton's Pro-Ghost Ball Anti-Aiming System Comment

Saturated Fats said:
Not faulty memory. Darren is the poster boy for the SEE System. He's pictured all over the literature doing demonstrations of the technique.
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If I had been asked 100,000 times what aiming system I use....regardless of my system, I'm just going to say I shoot by feel. I'm sure Darren has been confronted with this problem for years.

It's an easy out....after all, who wants to deal with explaining it all the time.....especially if the info is proprietary.

Maybe he does use the SEE system, maybe he doesn't but I can say he definitely doesn't play by feel.

All players who claim they play by feel, developed that sense by incorporating a system and programming it to such an extent that it is now performed subconsciously.

The mind perceives it as feel because it fails to see the programming at work but "feel" is nothing more than a highly programmed system.
 
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rrick33 said:
If I had been asked 100,000 times what aiming system I use....regardless of my system, I'm just going to say I shoot by feel. I'm sure Darren has been confronted with this problem for years.

It's an easy out....after all, who wants to deal with explaining it all the time.....especially if the info is proprietary.

Maybe he does use the SEE system, maybe he doesn't but I can say he definitely doesn't play by feel.

All players who claim they play by feel, developed that sense by incorporating a system and programming it to such an extent that it is now performed subconsciously.

The mind perceives it as feel because it fails to see the programming at work but "feel" is nothing more than a highly programmed system.
Click to expand...

Nice try, but no.

It isn't hard to say, "i use the XYZ system, check it out."

And yes, ive asked.
 
rrick33 said:
All players who claim they play by feel, developed that sense by incorporating a system and programming it to such an extent that it is now performed subconsciously.

The mind perceives it as feel because it fails to see the programming at work but "feel" is nothing more than a highly programmed system.
Click to expand...

Or it's just called learning... "When I move this thing this way, to hit this other thing that way, what happens?"
 
Banks said:
Nice try, but no.

It isn't hard to say, "i use the XYZ system, check it out."

And yes, ive asked.
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Banks, I had no idea you were one of those pros who's constantly bombarded by pool enthusiasts with questions about aiming, sighting, stroke techniques and strategy.
Please enlighten me more.

It may be easy to say you use the XYZ system but then what happens when they want you to explain it?

What happens when you're trying to stay focused between matches and fans want to pick your brain?

It is of little value to know that you once asked a question and got an answer from a pro. Your data pool is much too small to hold any value.

We are not talking about asking pros in general, we are talking about one situation with Darren where there seems to be a conflict between what he promotes and what he said.

I would venture to say that the fact Darren promotes the SEE system but tells people he plays by feel lends considerably more credence to my perspective than yours. After all, Darren didn't say he uses the SEE system and then suggest they check it out. He shut down all opportunities for questioning by claiming he shoots by feel.

I don't blame him for it. I'm only offering one perspective on why a pro might say that. I actually sympathize with his situation. When your that talented, people want to pull out your secrets. I imagine there are times when you just want to avoid opening a can of worms. What easier way to do that, than to offer an answer that cannot be elaborated upon.
 
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SlewFootLag said:
Or it's just called learning... "When I move this thing this way, to hit this other thing that way, what happens?"
Click to expand...

You're right! It is learning...... It is learning to understand the aiming principles. How the player adapts those principles for consistency is a system.

If the pockets were the size of trash cans we could easily believe that this approach to "feel' could work..... regardless of your intellect or skill level. We only need to feel if it's going in the general direction of the bucket.

Unfortunately, the level of precision needed to pocket balls consistently into a 4.5" opening from 7 ft away requires the mind to adopt a much more detailed understanding of the shot.

The process by which the brain calculates the details is a system. It may be a rudimentary system like the ghost ball but at some point every beginner must utilize a conceptual approach to understand how the balls react when struck.
They have no choice but to utilize a system....even if it is a self contrived approach.

Have you ever heard an instructor say.."I'm going to teach you how to play by feel" ?
There's no such thing......everyone must start with a system.

If we possessed the intellect of a chicken then we would be limited to simply hitting the ball on the left if we want it to go right but as humans we possess integrative thinking skills which automatically kick in when we seek to narrow the range of contact points necessary to execute with precision.

The learning process by nature follows lines of logic and therefore follows a "systematic" reasoning process.

The approach that we choose to narrow the options is a system.

People who claim to play by feel are simply responding to the subconscious mind acknowledging that their programmed system feels in harmony with the shot.
 
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rrick33 said:
You're right! It is learning...... It is learning to understand the aiming principles. How the player adapts those principles for consistency is a system.

If the pockets were the size of trash cans we could easily believe that this approach to "feel' could work..... regardless of your intellect or skill level. We only need to feel if it's going in the general direction of the bucket.

Unfortunately, the level of precision needed to pocket balls consistently into a 4.5" opening from 7 ft away requires the mind to adopt a much more detailed understanding of the shot.

The process by which the brain calculates the details is a system. It may be a rudimentary system like the ghost ball but at some point every beginner must utilize a conceptual approach to understand how the balls react when struck.
They have no choice but to utilize a system....even if it is a self contrived approach.

Have you ever heard an instructor say.."I'm going to teach you how to play by feel" ?
There's no such thing......everyone must start with a system.

If we possessed the intellect of a chicken then we would be limited to simply hitting the ball on the left if we want it to go right but as humans we possess integrative thinking skills which automatically kick in when we seek to narrow the range of contact points necessary to execute with precision.

The learning process by nature follows lines of logic and therefore follows a "systematic" reasoning process.

The approach that we choose to narrow the options is a system.

People who claim to play by feel are simply responding to the subconscious mind acknowledging that their programmed system feels in harmony with the shot.
Click to expand...

Do you think a guitarist like Eric Clapton and so on are system guitarist or play by feel?

Do you use a system to walk or do you walk by feel?
 
rrick33;5492222 All players who claim they play by feel said:
banmmmp! Thanks for playing, but no.

I certainly don't remember ever choosing an aiming system and then spending hours burning it in. I leaned blending all the factors like: stroke speed, english, throw, deflection, swerve, elevation, AND worked to just stroke straight.

I worked for a living and never owned a pool table so I could only do so much in the time I had for pool but there is NO WAY anyone is going to convince me that visualizing some lines/angles are worth jack when it comes to aiming -- too many variables to include equipment (balls and cloth and rails and pockets). Particularly given that we are all different physically, have different set ups, and see the balls differently.

Lou Figueroa
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I play by the IIAAQBHIISE system.












If It Ain't A Quarter Ball Hit It Is Something Else (IIAAQBHIISE).

Every ball is a quarter ball hit until it ain't. Figure it out from there. It works for me.

Aloha
 
duckie said:
Do you think a guitarist like Eric Clapton and so on are system guitarist or play by feel?

Do you use a system to walk or do you walk by feel?
Click to expand...


It's easy to put one leg in front of the other but that's not necessarily walking and it's easy to pluck a string but that's not necessarily music.

Do you really believe that Eric Clapton just picked up the guitar one day and his "feelings" began flowing through his finger tips like a pro?

Do you think that because a baby wants to walk he can climbs out of the womb and jogs across the room because he feels like it?

It takes lots of practice and trial by error experience to accomplish both. This trial by error approach is the way the human mind "systematically" processes what works and what doesn't.

So, do I think Eric Clapton is a system player......absolutely!! Does that mean that he is incapable of playing by feel. Absolutely not!

Once your system based experiences become programmed to a such a high degree that they are now performed on a subconscious level, then you can say you're playing by feel.

You've simply lost an awareness of the systems being applied. But you cannot deny that the systems are still there.
 
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lfigueroa said:
banmmmp! Thanks or playing, but no.

I certainly don't remember ever choosing an aiming system.

Lou Figueroa
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The fact that you can't remember choosing a system doesn't mean you didn't use one.

In the absence of understanding...... the brain will default to whatever established level of logical thinking you might have possessed. No matter how primitive.

Within that level of logic you incorporated trial and error concepts to increase your level of accuracy. These concepts are "systematically" applied. The fact that you incorporated a system but didn't have a label for it does not mean you failed to use a system.

Had you not applied these logical systematic principles, your performance today would be on par with that of a chimpanzee who possess the physical ability to perform similar to a human but lacks the cognitive reasoning ability to fine tune their performance logically over time. I could easily believe a chimpanzee might relay that they can't recall ever using a system because they lack the ability to formulate one.

I have not seen you play but I will assume it is superior to that of a chimpanzee. If I am mistaken in that assumption, then I apologize and concede that you likely did not use a system.

On the other hand, if you do play well; are you denying that you incorporated a "systematic approach" (A SYSTEM)..........that you lacked the ability to increase your performance through a trial and error methodology and your skills were miraculously infused into your body by virtue of divine intervention?

Lord be praised!!!!! Let's add another chapter to the Bible.

You claim that nobody will ever convince you that you used a system.. I have no desire to convince you one way or the other but I would encourage you to open your mind to the possibilities.

Do you remember being born? I doubt it.
Does that mean you weren't born?

Does your lack of understanding how your brain failed to recall this event suddenly mean that nobody will ever convince you that were born?

I think it's time you had a conversation with your mother.
 
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rrick33 said:
Banks, I had no idea you were one of those pros who's constantly bombarded by pool enthusiasts with questions about aiming, sighting, stroke techniques and strategy.
Please enlighten me more.

It may be easy to say you use the XYZ system but then what happens when they want you to explain it?

What happens when you're trying to stay focused between matches and fans want to pick your brain?

It is of little value to know that you once asked a question and got an answer from a pro. Your data pool is much too small to hold any value.

We are not talking about asking pros in general, we are talking about one situation with Darren where there seems to be a conflict between what he promotes and what he said.

I would venture to say that the fact Darren promotes the SEE system but tells people he plays by feel lends considerably more credence to my perspective than yours. After all, Darren didn't say he uses the SEE system and then suggest they check it out. He shut down all opportunities for questioning by claiming he shoots by feel.

I don't blame him for it. I'm only offering one perspective on why a pro might say that. I actually sympathize with his situation. When your that talented, people want to pull out your secrets. I imagine there are times when you just want to avoid opening a can of worms. What easier way to do that, than to offer an answer that cannot be elaborated upon.
Click to expand...

I had no idea you couldn't read.

I. Asked. Him.

If you need help understanding that, ask someone else.
 
rrick33 said:
The fact that you can't remember choosing a system doesn't mean you didn't use one.

In the absence of understanding...... the brain will default to whatever established level of logical thinking you might have possessed. No matter how primitive.

Within that level of logic you incorporated trial and error concepts to increase your level of accuracy. These concepts are "systematically" applied. The fact that you incorporated a system but didn't have a label for it does not mean you failed to use a system.

Had you not applied these logical systematic principles, your performance today would be on par with that of a chimpanzee who possess the physical ability to perform similar to a human but lacks the cognitive reasoning ability to fine tune their performance logically over time. I could easily believe a chimpanzee might relay that they can't recall ever using a system because they lack the ability to formulate one.

I have not seen you play but I will assume it is superior to that of a chimpanzee. If I am mistaken in that assumption, then I apologize and concede that you likely did not use a system.

On the other hand, if you do play well; are you denying that you incorporated a "systematic approach" (A SYSTEM)..........that you lacked the ability to increase your performance through a trial and error methodology and your skills were miraculously infused into your body by virtue of divine intervention?

Lord be praised!!!!! Let's add another chapter to the Bible.

You claim that nobody will ever convince you that you used a system.. I have no desire to convince you one way or the other but I would encourage you to open your mind to the possibilities.

Do you remember being born? I doubt it.
Does that mean you weren't born?

Does your lack of understanding how your brain failed to recall this event suddenly mean that nobody will ever convince you that were born?

I think it's time you had a conversation with your mother.
Click to expand...

Am I the only one who feels like you are an alias of English!?
 
rrick33 said:
You're right! It is learning...... It is learning to understand the aiming principles. How the player adapts those principles for consistency is a system.

If the pockets were the size of trash cans we could easily believe that this approach to "feel' could work..... regardless of your intellect or skill level. We only need to feel if it's going in the general direction of the bucket.

Unfortunately, the level of precision needed to pocket balls consistently into a 4.5" opening from 7 ft away requires the mind to adopt a much more detailed understanding of the shot.

The process by which the brain calculates the details is a system. It may be a rudimentary system like the ghost ball but at some point every beginner must utilize a conceptual approach to understand how the balls react when struck.
They have no choice but to utilize a system....even if it is a self contrived approach.

Have you ever heard an instructor say.."I'm going to teach you how to play by feel" ?
There's no such thing......everyone must start with a system.

If we possessed the intellect of a chicken then we would be limited to simply hitting the ball on the left if we want it to go right but as humans we possess integrative thinking skills which automatically kick in when we seek to narrow the range of contact points necessary to execute with precision.

The learning process by nature follows lines of logic and therefore follows a "systematic" reasoning process.

The approach that we choose to narrow the options is a system.

People who claim to play by feel are simply responding to the subconscious mind acknowledging that their programmed system feels in harmony with the shot.
Click to expand...

Everything on earth is a system, the big bang was a system, evolution is a system, man...
 
rrick33 said:
The fact that you can't remember choosing a system doesn't mean you didn't use one.

In the absence of understanding...... the brain will default to whatever established level of logical thinking you might have possessed. No matter how primitive.

Within that level of logic you incorporated trial and error concepts to increase your level of accuracy. These concepts are "systematically" applied. The fact that you incorporated a system but didn't have a label for it does not mean you failed to use a system.

Had you not applied these logical systematic principles, your performance today would be on par with that of a chimpanzee who possess the physical ability to perform similar to a human but lacks the cognitive reasoning ability to fine tune their performance logically over time. I could easily believe a chimpanzee might relay that they can't recall ever using a system because they lack the ability to formulate one.

I have not seen you play but I will assume it is superior to that of a chimpanzee. If I am mistaken in that assumption, then I apologize and concede that you likely did not use a system.

On the other hand, if you do play well; are you denying that you incorporated a "systematic approach" (A SYSTEM)..........that you lacked the ability to increase your performance through a trial and error methodology and your skills were miraculously infused into your body by virtue of divine intervention?

Lord be praised!!!!! Let's add another chapter to the Bible.

You claim that nobody will ever convince you that you used a system.. I have no desire to convince you one way or the other but I would encourage you to open your mind to the possibilities.

Do you remember being born? I doubt it.
Does that mean you weren't born?

Does your lack of understanding how your brain failed to recall this event suddenly mean that nobody will ever convince you that were born?

I think it's time you had a conversation with your mother.
Click to expand...


lol, what a moroon.

So sorry but you do not get to fantasize about how I learned to aim and play pool. It has been oft said that pool is as much science as it is art. And there is no system for what a player can create on a pool table.

I understand that would be hard for chimpanzee to comprehend but do the best you can ;-)

Lou Figueroa
 
nine_ball6970 said:
Am I the only one who feels like you are an alias of English!?
Click to expand...
Oh noooooooo.....not that one again. :banghead:

dear_god_stop.jpg
 
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