Darren Appleton's Pro-Ghost Ball Anti-Aiming System Comment

rrick33 said:
Lou, I apologize if you took the reference personally but you were the one referencing me as a maroon.
You know what they say, "tit for tat"

BTW, my color has no bearing on the topic. lol

I'm curious, why would someone who is adamant that they never used an aiming system, read through the aiming section of AZ Billiards?

Please don't tell me you were just looking for a fight.
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"Maroon" has nothing to do with color, it is a Smorg allusion.

And, I peruse because it is pool related and the topic has always been of interest to me. BTW, I was not aware it was a prerequisite of this particular forum to be a *system* user.

Lou Figueroa
didn't read
the fine print
 
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rrick33 said:
Lou, I apologize if you took the reference personally but you were the one referencing me as a maroon.
You know what they say, "tit for tat"

BTW, my color has no bearing on the topic. lol

I'm curious, why would someone who is adamant that they never used an aiming system, read through the aiming section of AZ Billiards?

Please don't tell me you were just looking for a fight.
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You're either really new to this, or a very good actor :p
 
lfigueroa said:
"Maroon" has nothing to do with color, it is a Smog allusion.

And, I peruse because it is pool related and the topic has always been of interest to me. BTW, I was not aware it was a prerequisite of this particular forum to be a *system* user.

Lou Figueroa
didn't read
the fine print
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I am well aware of the allusion you intended. I was being facetious and toying with the word in an effort to down play the necessity for name calling. If you change it's meaning it losses it's impact. Unfortunately, name calling seems to be commonplace among certain posters. I'll try to be more direct with my sarcasm in the future.

As far as it being a prerequisite for a player to be a "system" player.....Isn't that what we've been debating for several days.

I thought it would be self evident by now that everyone is a "system" player in one form or another.....prerequisite or not.
 
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rrick33 said:
I am well aware of the allusion you intended. I was being facetious and toying with the word in an effort to down play the necessity for name calling. If you change it's meaning it losses it's impact. Unfortunately, name calling seems to be commonplace among certain posters. I'll try to be more direct with my sarcasm in the future.

As far as it being a prerequisite for a player to be a "system" player.....Isn't that what we've been debating for several days.

I thought it would be self evident by now that everyone is a "system" player in one form or another.....prerequisite or not.
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phfffft. Nice try. You originally implied one had to be an *aiming* system user to participate in this forum:

rrick33 said:
I'm curious, why would someone who is adamant that they never used an aiming system, read through the aiming section of AZ Billiards?
Click to expand...

Lou Figueroa
too easy
 
System users are like those they do paint by numbers painting and consider themselves creative artist.
 
lfigueroa said:
phfffft. Nice try. You originally implied one had to be an *aiming* system user to participate in this forum:



Lou Figueroa
too easy
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I'm not sure what unorthodox level of logic you're using but I never implied anyone had to be a system aimer to participate in any forum.

I proclaimed with absolute certainty and no implication whatsoever that everyone uses some form of system to learn the aiming process. The mind can't help but adopt some level of logical reasoning and systematic concepts in order to refine the process.



What boggles my mind is that you claim you never used any aiming system and apparently never will.

In addition, you link your level of talent to that of science or an art form since you claimed to be speaking from experience when you cited them as examples where no system was necessary and you're the only person I know who's never used a system.

So it begs the question......why would someone who's never used an aiming system and plays like the gods be trolling through the aiming section of the forum?

That's like asking a professional NASCAR driver to compete in a Prius Hybrid. There's absolutely no reason. He's never going to race one and it certainly won't improve his driving skills.



That leaves only two possible conclusions......either you do actually use an aiming system and you're exploring the aiming section to see if you can improve upon those concepts.

If this is the case, then you're in complete denial to the fact that you use a system or you're just outright lying.

The second conclusion is that you're just looking to be obstinate and denounce what you claim you've never used and apparently know nothing about.

I find this option to be much more plausible.

Unfortunately, whether in denial or just being obstinate, your behavior is one the key problems with this forum. You seem to be on a mission to create friction with your smog allusions and blatant unsupported denials.

You're like a bull in a china shop who gets a kick out of hearing the sound of breaking glass just for the sake of it.

There's really nothing I can do or say to fix your issues....other than to recommend a good therapist. I would suggest someone who offers waterboarding.



BTW Nice sign off. Most players adopt characteristic namesakes like "Fats" or "Slim" or "Ice man" But yours........"Too Easy" That's unique.

"Lou Figueroa
too easy"

Was that given to you because it's what your competition says when they find out your the opponent?
 
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rrick33 said:
I'm not sure what unorthodox level of logic you're using but I never implied anyone had to be a system aimer to participate in any forum.

I proclaimed with absolute certainty and no implication whatsoever that everyone uses some form of system to learn the aiming process. The mind can't help but adopt some level of logical reasoning and systematic concepts in order to refine the process.



What boggles my mind is that you claim you never used any aiming system and apparently never will.

In addition, you link your level of talent to that of science or an art form since you claimed to be speaking from experience when you cited them as examples where no system was necessary and you're the only person I know who's never used a system.

So it begs the question......why would someone who's never used an aiming system and plays like the gods be trolling through the aiming section of the forum?

That's like asking a professional NASCAR driver to compete in a Prius Hybrid. There's absolutely no reason. He's never going to race one and it certainly won't improve his driving skills.



That leaves only two possible conclusions......either you do actually use an aiming system and you're exploring the aiming section to see if you can improve upon those concepts.

If this is the case, then you're in complete denial to the fact that you use a system or you're just outright lying.

The second conclusion is that you're just looking to be obstinate and denounce what you claim you've never used and apparently know nothing about.

I find this option to be much more plausible.

Unfortunately, whether in denial or just being obstinate, your behavior is one the key problems with this forum. You seem to be on a mission to create friction with your smog allusions and blatant unsupported denials.

You're like a bull in a china shop who gets a kick out of hearing the sound of breaking glass just for the sake of it.

There's really nothing I can do or say to fix your issues....other than to recommend a good therapist. I would suggest someone who offers waterboarding.



BTW Nice sign off. Most players adopt characteristic namesakes like "Fats" or "Slim" or "Ice man" But yours........"Too Easy" That's unique.

"Lou Figueroa
too easy"

Was that given to you because it's what your competition says when they find out your the opponent?
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You can insist everyone uses an aiming system all you want but -- somewhat obviously to everyone but you -- that does not make it so. And whether a player uses an aiming system does not beg anything when it comes to participating here. It's like you have this little closed loop of false logic, insisting I have to use an aiming system, but just don't know it (or I'm lying), and any which way a player shouldn't be here if they don't, lol. And here, I'll put the post script above my sig so you'll get it this time:

Too easy.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
You can insist everyone uses an aiming system all you want but -- somewhat obviously to everyone but you -- that does not make it so. And whether a player uses an aiming system does not beg anything when it comes to participating here. It's like you have this little closed loop of false logic, insisting I have to use an aiming system, but just don't know it (or I'm lying), and any which way a player shouldn't be here if they don't, lol. And here, I'll put the post script above my sig so you'll get it this time:

Too easy.

Lou Figueroa
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"false logic" ?.... That's just precious.
Between you and I....... I'm the only one who has applied logic in our debate.

As I recall the foundation of your argument was that you didn't remember using a system and therefore could not possibly have used one.

I don't remember getting drunk last night so it must not have happened.

Your perception of logic is illogical.

But you know what they say........"perception is reality", so it would seem your reality did not use a system.

Like you said...."that doesn't make it so".

All that's left is to agree to disagree.
 
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Before it gets lost in the crap, let's clarify something -

The Prime Referent for:

What a maroon!​

would be Bugs Bunny... not Smorg.


just sayin'
 
rrick33 said:
"false logic" ?.... That's just precious.
Between you and I....... I'm the only one who has applied logic in our debate.

As I recall the foundation of your argument was that you didn't remember using a system and therefore could not possibly have used one.

I don't remember getting drunk last night so it must not have happened.

Your perception of logic is illogical.

But you know what they say........"perception is reality", so it would seem your reality did not use a system.

Like you said...."that doesn't make it so".

All that's left is to agree to disagree.
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I started playing when I was a teenager -- not when I was drunk or a newborn from my Mother's womb -- both of which, are "arguments" you've made in this discussion. I remember exactly how I learned. So pah-leeeese, don't talk to me about your precious "logic."

Lou Figueroa
 
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I've been lucky in that I've had the opportunity to take lessons from a few certified, gilt-edge legends. What has usually happened is that I spend several hours with them and, in addition to talking me through shot selection and strategy, I've gotten the opportunity to ask whatever comes to mind.

I always ask about aiming systems :-)

Ray Martin
#####
I asked him about he aimed: “Just see the shot,” he said. “No ghost ball, no contact points, no tracks, aiming systems, no edges?!” I asked. “No. All that aiming system stuff -- people want a magic pill. They don’t want to work. Those are all gimmicks, something to sell,” Ray told me.
#####

Dallas West
#####
We also talked about aiming systems and I described current thoughts on the subject and he just shook his head and said, “Just an appeal to the vanity of man.” (I’ll let you figure out what he meant by that ;-)
#####

Steve “Cookie Monster” Cook
#####
I asked him how he aimed and he said, “You just see the shot. There's no system. I have trouble nowadays seeing the straight pool patterns. But the shots... you just see them.”
#####

Lou Figueroa
 
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lfigueroa said:
I started playing when I was a teenager -- not when I was drunk or a newborn from my Mother's womb -- both of which, are "arguments" you've made in this discussion. I remember exactly how I learned. So pah-leeeese, don't talk to me about your precious "logic."

Lou Figueroa
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Well....since you said please. OK
 
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First time in Aiming(i think) WOW! What a bunch of a holes(i like it!)
I use contact point to contact point, whether that is a "system" or not I have no idea. I would lean towards not a system, but what do I know.
Seems pretty obvious to me, if you want a ball to go somewhere, the contact points have to match up, Yes?

Anyway, looking forward to hearing how stupid I am and I must have had somebody teach me a "system" to learn two contact points lining up will make the ball go in that direction
Jason
 
right-wrong - same old story

Hey fellows,

same old story- no matter who starts a topic about aiming (-system-). It doesn t take long and it s all about "right or wrong" "black or white"-

Isn t it all about using your earned knowledge and expirience after all? Of course the much higher percentage learnt it the hard way- practicing with a high amount of repetions- try and error.
And "try and error" you ll use always (at the beginning of everything)-

Why is it so hard for some humans ( no matter who- the old generation...the *newer" generation- pivot, contact to contact, ghost ball etc. ) to be able to accept others opinoins?

I prefer using the stuff which helps me-- i also learnt the old-schooled way. Ghost-Ball, Contact to Contact, Back of the Ball. But when i started to get cuious about CTE, Pro1, 90/90 i can make sure for myself, that i learnt a lot of new stuff.

It s about what helps you to "see" the shot correct- and how to bring yourself into the correct position to make the shot....without having "an illusion".

The Perception- that s the thing that counts- the correct perception of the shot- and finally to bring YOUR body into the position to make the ball into the pocket.
Let the eyes lead and the body follows-- great sentence from Stan- as i like to say:
"What you see is what you get".

anyhow: bit respect for each other can help having an easier life- and gives you also a bigger chance to listen, learn and earn knowledge ( in both directions).


have a smooth stroke.


( and repeatable stroke, which helps you to send Whitey from A to B is a big help , too :P )
 
duckie said:
There is no system for creative shot making. One of the reason I like 14.1 so much is the creativity you can have in shot making, more so then any other game.

There is no system that will help you with a carom/combo and have the CB open up a cluster of balls and get shape for the next shot.

I watched the Agony and the Ecstasy the other night. The masters of anything are way beyond using any from of system. What flows from them is themselves and nothing more.
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I will send you $100 if you send us a video of you holding your driver's license clearly legible followed by you running 15 balls.

Get a free Benny!
 
duckie said:
System users are like those they do paint by numbers painting and consider themselves creative artist.
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I have $1000 that says any proficient aiming system user here will beat you on any shot making test - PAT, BU, whatever official tests there are the aiming system users using CTE and/or 90/90 will beat you.

Are you willing to bet on your assertions?

No, you aren't.

You have never understood anything about aiming systems, you don't understand the skills they build, and you still can't run three balls in any game.

After all these years can you even run one rack of balls?
 
Darren is 100% right that without a repeatable stroke no method of aiming will help. Someone could take a laser line and a ghost ball template and give you the line for every shot and without a solid stroke you won't send the cue ball down that line precisely with any decent consistency.

In other words if you have the dead nuts perfect shot line it's pretty easy to dog it by hitting the cueball wrong so that it veers away from that line. Shooting straight shots where the shot line - center to center - is crystal clear no system needed - will tell you fairly quickly what your ability to see a straight line and stroke precisely is.

Mine.......is horrible.
 
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