Diamond 7 footer vs. Valley bar box APA rules

realkingcobra said:
What would you call a Valley 9ft coin op? Would you call that a bar box because Valley built it? What about Dynamo, what if they built a coin operated 9ft pool table, would you call that a bar box? I've already tried to explain to you, a bar box....key word there is "BAR" box, is a coin operated amusement device. Now, take any pool table built, with no money vending system built into them, for simplicity, take a Gold Crown 9ft for example. Even if that table is in a bar, that don't make it a bar box, as it's either rented by the hour, or free to play. So, to answer your question once again....if the table is coin operated, it's a bar box. Anything else is is simply a pool table. Diamond Smart Table= bar box. Diamond ProAm=.not a bar box. Diamond Professional, not a bar box. Olhausen pool tables, not bar boxes.
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Glen, the public knows 7 foot tables as "bar boxes", plain and simple. What the technical term is officially does not matter.

If some place tells me they have a bar box, I know the tourney is on 7 foot tables, I don't really care if it is a coin op or not.

Not many folks have ever seen a 9 foot coin op table ( I have) but nobody (players) do not call them bar boxes... they would just say a 9 footer but coin op.... just real world stuff.....

So, technically speaking, you are probably right, but for 99% of the pool players (league, tourney, shortstops, and pro's) if you say barbox, they know it's a 7 footer, and the first question that will follow is "valley or diamond" cause they want to know what to expect...

I prefer Diamond WAY over a Valley....
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Glen, the public knows 7 foot tables as "bar boxes", plain and simple. What the technical term is officially does not matter.

If some place tells me they have a bar box, I know the tourney is on 7 foot tables, I don't really care if it is a coin op or not.

Not many folks have ever seen a 9 foot coin op table ( I have) but nobody (players) do not call them bar boxes... they would just say a 9 footer but coin op.... just real world stuff.....

So, technically speaking, you are probably right, but for 99% of the pool players (league, tourney, shortstops, and pro's) if you say barbox, they know it's a 7 footer, and the first question that will follow is "valley or diamond" cause they want to know what to expect...

I prefer Diamond WAY over a Valley....
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I'll tell ya what, it's a hard sell to get 7fts in a lot of the bars in Washington state as I've said, we're predominantly 8fts. Butte, MT is 8fts as well, to the point that having a 7ft in a bar will get you banned from the pool league's. I've built, owned, and operated the highest grossing coin operated pool tables anywhere in this country until someone can prove otherwise, and those were 9ft coin ops in 4 casinos. 13 tables in 4 casinos grossed $23,500 a month on average at .75 cents a game. When the casinos wanted to own their own pool tables, I said fine and pulled mine, they replaced them with 8fts....then later they got rid of them because the pool playing died completely....they had no idea why, but I did. After that, in 2000 I got involved with Diamond and never looked back. Today, we have no casinos with pool tables in them anymore.
 
realkingcobra said:
What would you call a Valley 9ft coin op? Would you call that a bar box because Valley built it? What about Dynamo, what if they built a coin operated 9ft pool table, would you call that a bar box? I've already tried to explain to you, a bar box....key word there is "BAR" box, is a coin operated amusement device. Now, take any pool table built, with no money vending system built into them, for simplicity, take a Gold Crown 9ft for example. Even if that table is in a bar, that don't make it a bar box, as it's either rented by the hour, or free to play. So, to answer your question once again....if the table is coin operated, it's a bar box. Anything else is is simply a pool table. Diamond Smart Table= bar box. Diamond ProAm=.not a bar box. Diamond Professional, not a bar box. Olhausen pool tables, not bar boxes.
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I'm my area I would call a 9 footer a 9 footer.....coin op or drop pocket. Same with the 8 footers and oversize 8's. The bar boxes here are considered to be any 7 footer or 6 footer, which are few far and between. None of my answers are good enough for you though.
 
Allen Brown said:
I'm my area I would call a 9 footer a 9 footer.....coin op or drop pocket. Same with the 8 footers and oversize 8's. The bar boxes here are considered to be any 7 footer or 6 footer, which are few far and between. None of my answers are good enough for you though.
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I really done care what you call them, makes no difference to me. According to you, a 7ft Olhausen home table is a bar box....gotcha.
 
If anyone said I played on a bar box in my area (St. Louis) the person they are thinking of would think of a 7' table and would probably assume it is a Valley table.

Being their is only 1 official pool hall that I can think of in this area and it has 9' tables (or 8', not sure), I know of no other place that has anything other than 7's and all are bars.

Actually I believe Dave and Busters has 9' tables, but I dont go or play there so......
 
Technically right or wrong, me and every other person I know all refer to any 7, coin op or not, as a bar box. We also refer to a 9 in a bar, coin op or not, as a 9 in a bar. Same goes for the 8's. This may be wrong but I'm sure at least 9 out of 10 would understand it to be.
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Glen, the public knows 7 foot tables as "bar boxes", plain and simple. What the technical term is officially does not matter.

If some place tells me they have a bar box, I know the tourney is on 7 foot tables, I don't really care if it is a coin op or not.

Not many folks have ever seen a 9 foot coin op table ( I have) but nobody (players) do not call them bar boxes... they would just say a 9 footer but coin op.... just real world stuff.....

So, technically speaking, you are probably right, but for 99% of the pool players (league, tourney, shortstops, and pro's) if you say barbox, they know it's a 7 footer, and the first question that will follow is "valley or diamond" cause they want to know what to expect...

I prefer Diamond WAY over a Valley....
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Were you aware that Diamond makes 9' coin open tables? I wasnt, until the new pool room here in town opened, with just that. (They've disabled the coin op mechanism and rent by the hour, and the ball return is kinda nice.)

We have another bar here in town with three Valley 9' coin op tables (and two 8'ers) so 9' coin ops cant be as rare as all that....can they?
 
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justadub said:
Were you aware that Diamond makes 9' coin open tables? I wasnt, until the new pool room here in town opened, with just that. (They've disabled the coin op mechanism and rent by the hour, and the ball return is kinda nice.)

We have another bar here in town with three Valley 9' coin op tables (and two 8'ers) so 9' coin ops cant be as rare as all that....can they?
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I haven't ever seen a 9' Valley coin op. I remember they had the 9' Diamond coin ops at SBE, and I think they use them at Derby too.

Does the 9' Valley have the 6.25" corner pockets ? Lol
 
BmoreMoney said:
I haven't ever seen a 9' Valley coin op. I remember they had the 9' Diamond coin ops at SBE, and I think they use them at Derby too.

Does the 9' Valley have the 6.25" corner pockets ? Lol
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To be completely honest, I have to go back and confirm they are valleys, but I'm pretty certain I'm right. :p

Not quite 6" pockets, but generous enough. Side pockets are a bear tho
 
justadub said:
Were you aware that Diamond makes 9' coin open tables? I wasnt, until the new pool room here in town opened, with just that. (They've disabled the coin op mechanism and rent by the hour, and the ball return is kinda nice.)

We have another bar here in town with three Valley 9' coin op tables (and two 8'ers) so 9' coin ops cant be as rare as all that....can they?
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Yep, that's why I told glen that I was aware of it. A place had them for league many years ago... they were TOUGH SOB"s when you are not use to them, I realized early on what shots you just needed to play safe versus going for the shot that required you to hit very hard....

Never seen a valley 9 foot though ??
 
realkingcobra said:
I really done care what you call them, makes no difference to me. According to you, a 7ft Olhausen home table is a bar box....gotcha.
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Refer to post #40 where you asked me questions and I answered them. I knew you didn't really want an answer because you already know everything.
 
7' = bar box, usually means coin op.
7' home table = 7'er
8' = 8'er
9' = 9'er
10' = 10'er
Anything over 7' coin op is not a bar box


That goes for pretty much everywhere I've been, and yes I have seen coin op 9'ers

Don't remember what I played on in Richland/Pasco area in WA, but I'm pretty sure they were 9'
Jason
 
Table Differences - I Started this Post

One of my intentions was to define that a Valley Bar Box (7 footer) is not the same size as a Diamond 7 foot "Bar Table". That is why there are more clusters on a Valley. The Valley is only an inch smaller but that is enough to make things more of a mess. I measured both: Most Valleys are closer to 39x79 and most Diamonds are just a bit over 40x80. Not the same beast. (Others may be different but I measured 4 of each.)
 
jasonlaus said:
7' = bar box, usually means coin op.
7' home table = 7'er
8' = 8'er
9' = 9'er
10' = 10'er
Anything over 7' coin op is not a bar box


That goes for pretty much everywhere I've been, and yes I have seen coin op 9'ers

Don't remember what I played on in Richland/Pasco area in WA, but I'm pretty sure they were 9'
Jason
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Tri-Cities' bar boxes are 8fts. There was a casino that had about 12 AMF 9ft home style pool tables in it rented by the hour, but they didn't last long....no one wanted to play on them
 
BarTableMan said:
One of my intentions was to define that a Valley Bar Box (7 footer) is not the same size as a Diamond 7 foot "Bar Table". That is why there are more clusters on a Valley. The Valley is only an inch smaller but that is enough to make things more of a mess. I measured both: Most Valleys are closer to 39x79 and most Diamonds are just a bit over 40x80. Not the same beast. (Others may be different but I measured 4 of each.)
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You're measuring Valley tables without stock rails. New, they measure the same 40"×80" as a Diamond.
 
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