Low Deflection shafts, Are they worth it?

[slide13]

I still can't agree. An LD shaft corrects a stroke that's off?

I don't believe it.


As far as being closer to the "intended line of aim", IMHO the intended line of aim should be adjusted, and hence it should not be closer, it should be dead on. For some, that might be easier with LD because it requires less compensation. For others, compensating is easier for some reason, possibly some innate talent or perhaps training, those people likely will experience less benefit from LD I would think. Maybe that's what you mean by the stroke being off? If so, then I get it and perhaps agree.



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If you try to hit a straight shot with no spin and mishit the cue ball to the right of center by a quarter tip then an LD shaft will absolutely keep the cue ball closer to the intended line of aim. It's not correcting for anything, it's just not exacerbating the flaw like a non LD shaft will.

 

[Chopdoc]

I'm not quite sure that is completely accurate.

One can be aimed correctly, but one's stroke does not deliver the tip & the angle of the cue as intended when aimed. Hence an off center hit with an angled cue. Hence Cue Ball Squirt. For the same hit the high tech shaft should send the CB 'closer' to the intended target than a full maple shaft.

Depending on the margin for error given the pocket & distance the OB is from the pocket the difference could decide between a miss or a lucky make.

Everyone plays at different levels with different amounts of accuracy of stroke.

I would suggest a high tech shaft to everyone regardless of how accurate one's stroke is.

I relate it to cavity back irons & metal perimeter weighted 'woods' for golf.

Eventually every pro golfer went to them to help save them from that ONE bad swing.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

PS Please correct me if I've misstated something.

Indeed, perfect aim is useless if one can't hit the proper place on the cue ball.

That would seem to go without saying.

But I don't believe an LD shaft helps straighten your stroke or in fact do anything at all before contacting that point and hence can't help you find it.


But I don't think we really disagree. Just getting at it from different perspectives.

Relate it to a rifle, like a long sniper shot. If you know the point of impact is consistently 3 inches left, you just shoot 3 inches left all the time. When the wind is stronger or weaker that point changes, when the barrel gets hot that point changes, so you learn to compensate for the multiple varying factors.

LS simple minimizes one of those factors. Nothing else as far as I can see. I don't think it will correct an inconsistent stroke.

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[slide13]

It won't correct your stroke at all, but if you put a bad stroke on the ball you'll be more likely to still make the ball with a LD shaft as the cue ball deflects less going closer to where you intended it to go.

It's like forgiving golf clubs vs blade irons. If I'm 225y out I can aim for th pin with either and with a good stroke I'll be on the green with either. With a bad stroke though I've still got a decent shot of getting on or close to the green with a forgiving game-improvement iron (golfs version of the term low deflection). With a old school blade I'm likely to be well offline (and short...but that's not really relatable to the pool example).

Neither will do anything to correct my swing, but the choice of club or shaft can certainly effect the resulting outcome of the swing or stroke.

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

shafts

Been playing with an hxt shaft for the pasted 7 months. Don't really care for it. Have a new cue on the way , with a solid maple shaft. Are these expensive LD shafts really worth it ? (Ob/predator)Do pros mostly still use solid maple shafts or is it a 50/50 thing? I don't see how they can be that much of an advantage as long as your solid with a reg shaft. Yes/No?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Has the HXT shaft been dipped in stabilizer or is it resin reinforce shaft ?

I make solid maple and there is allot that can be done to change the hit...

To answer your question No I don't care for LD shafts .

But I do have a new design for one .

 

[Chopdoc]

It won't correct your stroke at all, but if you put a bad stroke on the ball you'll be more likely to still make the ball with a LD shaft as the cue ball deflects less going closer to where you intended it to go.

Ah, I see what you mean.

More forgiving. I get that. Not sure of the magnitude of that, but I do get it.


I still prefer my plain old wood shafts. Old and set in my ways I guess.


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[ENGLISH!]

Indeed, perfect aim is useless if one can't hit the proper place on the cue ball.

That would seem to go without saying.

But I don't believe an LD shaft helps straighten your stroke or in fact do anything at all before contacting that point and hence can't help you find it.


But I don't think we really disagree. Just getting at it from different perspectives.

Relate it to a rifle, like a long sniper shot. If you know the point of impact is consistently 3 inches left, you just shoot 3 inches left all the time. When the wind is stronger or weaker that point changes, when the barrel gets hot that point changes, so you learn to compensate for the multiple varying factors.

LS simple minimizes one of those factors. Nothing else as far as I can see. I don't think it will correct an inconsistent stroke.

.

We agree.

I've played with regular maple while using some form of english for nearly every shot for 45+ years before ever getting to hit any real amount with a "LD" shaft.

I switched & it took only about 20 minutes to make the adjustment & about 2 full sessions to get comfortable with 'every' shot.

I think my subconscious mind thanks me for making it easier on him... or her whichever that entity is.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

PS I will add one caveat that is just a thought. When hitting with a lot of english & the aim adjustment is large, I think that can put a conscious doubt up that can influence the stroke & I think because the adjustment is less with the "LD" shaft, it might keep that conscious doubt out or to a minimum & MIGHT allow for a more correct & true stroke. Just a thought though.

 

[Player]

I only have one "LD" shaft, a Players HTX, and to tell the truth I don't play with it much. I grew up with and played mostly with bar room house cues that were usually 14mm or larger. So to me, a good maple shaft that's about 12.5mm is low deflection lol.
Actually, I have some solid maple shafts that are 12.25 that are every bit as "LD" as that 12.75 HTX,
and I like the feel and hit of them better.

 

[slide13]

Ah, I see what you mean.

More forgiving. I get that. Not sure of the magnitude of that, but I do get it.


I still prefer my plain old wood shafts. Old and set in my ways I guess.


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I'm not sure the magnitude either and that's a good point. I also play with a standard shaft, so while I beleive LD has some benefits and I've used them in the past, I think regular shafts have some benefits as well and it's up to each person to find what works best for them.

After going LD I doubted I'd go back, but then I tried a skinner maple shaft and found the right fit for me for right now. Loving my 12mm Runde shaft with micarta ferrule!

 

[Chopdoc]

I'm not sure the magnitude either and that's a good point. I also play with a standard shaft, so while I beleive LD has some benefits and I've used them in the past, I think regular shafts have some benefits as well and it's up to each person to find what works best for them.

After going LD I doubted I'd go back, but then I tried a skinner maple shaft and found the right fit for me for right now. Loving my 12mm Runde shaft with micarta ferrule!

I'm shooting 31 inch shafts at about 12mm and 11.75mm, and loving it.


.

 

[BRussell]

Really?


That's only true if you don't aim properly IMHO.


I would say it would be more correct to say that one simply has to compensate less with an LD shaft.

Regardless of the type of shaft the ball should go where you are aiming, not "closer".


IMHO regardless of what one's aiming technique or "system" might be if the ball goes anywhere other than where you are aiming then the aim is the problem, not the shaft.
Therefore, if the ball is going "closer" to where you are aiming, rather than where you are aiming, then your aim is off, not the shaft.

Right, I agree with you that you have to compensate less. By aiming here I just mean where you're pointing the stick. Squirt causes the cue ball to travel off-line from where the cue stick is pointing, and if you can reduce that, you have reduced a complicated source of error. It would be one thing if squirt was a constant, like "I can always aim a half-inch to the side with this cue." Then I'd agree with you that a low-squirt shaft wouldn't help much. But the error from squirt varies so much with the distance and amount of English, that if you can reduce that error you have made it much easier to predict where the cue ball will go.

You're better able to predict where the bullet goes in less-windy conditions than in more-windy conditions. I have no doubt that there are people who are such terrific marksmen that they can hit the target under really windy conditions. But I also bet they're more likely to miss when it's windy and they'd love it if it was calmer.

 

[gypsy_soul]

English how can u say everyone should be playing with a low deflection shaft? I tried an OB for a year and threw it in the trash I'm back to the maple shaft and if u want to play some I'll fly to u as long as u play with that special shaft you have! Think real hard!!!!!!

 

[Realizm]

I'm using a ss360 made by Bob Danieson of Bd Cues, I love it cause I hit a lot of long shots and long English shots with eases and I can move the cb around with no problem , I have used maple shafts for a very long time . The last ld shaft I played with a the first 314 and it was good back in the day .But I would say within the last 2 years playing with the SS360 shaft my game has gone up, but not all ld shafts work for everyone.
But if you can try the ss360 you will like it .:smile::smile:

 

[ENGLISH!]

English how can u say everyone should be playing with a low deflection shaft? I tried an OB for a year and threw it in the trash I'm back to the maple shaft and if u want to play some I'll fly to u as long as u play with that special shaft you have! Think real hard!!!!!!

Pro golfers were rather slow to switch to cavity back irons & metal perimeter weighted 'woods', but eventually even the best made the switch because they realized that as those clubs narrowed the field they could not afford to not have the benefit when they hit that one bad shot per round.

Pool is not golf but the concept is similar.

I played with regular maple for 45+ years while using english on nearly every shot.

I made the switch.

The high tech shafts still squirt the ball, just less.

Naturally you can do what ever you like...

but can you give me one technical reason when a solid maple shaft is technically better than a High Tech Shaft & would help a miss hit?

Best Wishes to You & Yours,
Rick

 

[slide13]

Plenty of pro golfers still is muscle back blade irons....because they like the feel, same reason people still play maple shafts. Cavity backs are way more common in pro bags now, but far from universal!

 

[gunzby]

I'm using a ss360 made by Bob Danieson of Bd Cues, I love it cause I hit a lot of long shots and long English shots with eases and I can move the cb around with no problem , I have used maple shafts for a very long time . The last ld shaft I played with a the first 314 and it was good back in the day .But I would say within the last 2 years playing with the SS360 shaft my game has gone up, but not all ld shafts work for everyone.
But if you can try the ss360 you will like it .:smile::smile:

Same here and I love that shaft. One of the smoothest hitting shafts I've had

 

[Bank it]

IMO no, unless it's cold & you need to build a fire

 

[ENGLISH!]

Plenty of pro golfers still is muscle back blade irons....because they like the feel, same reason people still play maple shafts. Cavity backs are way more common in pro bags now, but far from universal!

Can you name a few? You may be right...

but the only 'top' pro that I know still using blades is Tiger.

They've had forged cavity back irons for some time now. The feel can be had with a forged cavity back iron & get miss hit benefit.

Are ANY of them using a steel shafted persimmon driver?

I like the feel of the OB Shafts & The McDermott "i" shafts. Other LDs, not so much. There are reg. maple shafts of which I don't like the feel. Wood is very subjective.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

 

[Player]

Sometimes squirting can be good. My favorite shaft squirts a pretty good bit.

 

[Chopdoc]

but can you give me one technical reason when a solid maple shaft is technically better than a High Tech Shaft & would help a miss hit?

Technical reason?

Technically better?

Not sure why you phrase it that way.

I do have a reason. I have been shooting with the same shafts on my Joss since 1985. If I had to trust my life to a pool shot I have no doubt I would reach for that cue and either of those shafts. Technically or otherwise I promise I will more likely make the shot than with any LD shaft.

Making the shot. Ultimately, what other technicality is there.


But that's me, with my cue, after more than 30 years playing with it. I have about 80 cues so I am very aware of how cues other than my Joss play.

Then again, I adjust and compensate pretty well when changing cues. I had a predator and traded it for a vintage McDermott. In my view the old McD plays much better than that Predator did. Technically speaking that is. Meaning I make more shots with it.



.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Technical reason?

Technically better?

Not sure why you phrase it that way.

I do have a reason. I have been shooting with the same shafts on my Joss since 1985. If I had to trust my life to a pool shot I have no doubt I would reach for that cue and either of those shafts. Technically or otherwise I promise I will more likely make the shot than with any LD shaft.

Making the shot. Ultimately, what other technicality is there.


But that's me, with my cue, after more than 30 years playing with it. I have about 80 cues so I am very aware of how cues other than my Joss play.

Then again, I adjust and compensate pretty well when changing cues. I had a predator and traded it for a vintage McDermott. In my view the old McD plays much better than that Predator did. Technically speaking that is. Meaning I make more shots with it.

.

I hear you. I said technically because I did not want an answer of like or feels better.

I was looking for an advantage. You bring up familiarity & that should be considered but then no other shaft would be in the running for being better even if it was guaranteed to make the shot.

But if you played with an LD shaft that you liked, maybe not as much as that Joss shaft, for a period of time & then that shot came up...

would you go back to Joss or use the shaft that you've been playing with for say the last 3 or 4 months.

It took me very little time to adjust & I'm not going back. I tried it a while ago & it convince me.

Earl has said that he could never go back to a standard length shaft.

It's human nature, I think, to not want or like change, but when one understands & sees benefit, it make change easier.

Best to Ya,
Rick