Tom Hay's new line of tips

[TomHay]

Quote:
Now comes the "Big" shocker. I spent a lot of money having samples sent from overseas. I picked some that were good and after testing them sent to each place picked for more samples to see which were consistant. When I was satisfied I chose the best of the best. My cost, $1.50 a tip in large quantitys. Using paypal to pay, freight etc that brought me to $1.85 a tip. Than I must package them, print labels put them in a padded envelope and pay $1.95 postage. I almost forgot the part about with each order I Re Tip to make sure all is the same.
Seems like he's been pretty up front about the whole thing from the beginning, now that you mention it. Thanks for settling it once and for all.

Yes, that was number 9 I was talking about, thanks.

Chris, please be sure to add a copy of this to your FTC filing and again hope you sell a whole lotta tips

 

[Fast Lenny]

The tips you sell are great Tom. My only gripe was mushrooming. I use mediums. Best bang for the buck on the tip market for sure.

 

[john coloccia]

The tips you sell are great Tom. My only gripe was mushrooming. I use mediums. Best bang for the buck on the tip market for sure.

I keep reading about this but haven't experienced it. Even with the soft ones, mine mushroom a little once, I trim it, and they never mushroom again. It makes me wonder if I'm burnishing them differently than everyone else. I also get them to shine up reasonably well, something that's not supposed to happen from what I read.

When I install them, my final step is to polish the sides with a little swirl remover and a paper towel. I do this on the lathe. You need to be careful not to get it too hot, but it does a nice job IMHO. Maybe there's something to it? I started doing that a couple of months ago when I discovered that it left an amazing finish on Triangle tips.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

I keep reading about this but haven't experienced it. Even with the soft ones, mine mushroom a little once, I trim it, and they never mushroom again. It makes me wonder if I'm burnishing them differently than everyone else. I also get them to shine up reasonably well, something that's not supposed to happen from what I read.

When I install them, my final step is to polish the sides with a little swirl remover and a paper towel. I do this on the lathe. You need to be careful not to get it too hot, but it does a nice job IMHO. Maybe there's something to it? I started doing that a couple of months ago when I discovered that it left an amazing finish on Triangle tips.

You're doing it the right way. When I used to install tips I would put a dab of spit on the side as it spun in the lathe, then applied a paper towel with enough pressure to bring up a nice shine.
I've never thought of it before, but I had my DNA in pool rooms all over the place. :smile:

 

[The Renfro]

Quote:
Now comes the "Big" shocker. I spent a lot of money having samples sent from overseas. I picked some that were good and after testing them sent to each place picked for more samples to see which were consistant. When I was satisfied I chose the best of the best. My cost, $1.50 a tip in large quantitys. Using paypal to pay, freight etc that brought me to $1.85 a tip. Than I must package them, print labels put them in a padded envelope and pay $1.95 postage. I almost forgot the part about with each order I Re Tip to make sure all is the same.
Seems like he's been pretty up front about the whole thing from the beginning, now that you mention it. Thanks for settling it once and for all.

Yes, that was number 9 I was talking about, thanks.

Chris, please be sure to add a copy of this to your FTC filing and again hope you sell a whole lotta tips

Tom I am not knocking you over the tips... If you are clean on importing I will beat the drum for you... Imports can be as good as anything made here.... Your tips offer the best value in a layered tip on the market.... and if you are doing QC when they arrive then likely the quality will be there as well.... Your tips have a following.. If they were subpar they would not...... I have zero issue in adding you to my list of tips to try for anyone who asks again.....

I will apologize for jumping on this thread... I will take your PM at face value and bow out on what did or did not happen.. You are retired and don't need the hassle and I am still working on a new company... Both of us have better things to do.....

 

[cammel8]

Quote:
Now comes the "Big" shocker. I spent a lot of money having samples sent from overseas. I picked some that were good and after testing them sent to each place picked for more samples to see which were consistant. When I was satisfied I chose the best of the best. My cost, $1.50 a tip in large quantitys. Using paypal to pay, freight etc that brought me to $1.85 a tip. Than I must package them, print labels put them in a padded envelope and pay $1.95 postage. I almost forgot the part about with each order I Re Tip to make sure all is the same.
Seems like he's been pretty up front about the whole thing from the beginning, now that you mention it. Thanks for settling it once and for all.

Yes, that was number 9 I was talking about, thanks.

Chris, please be sure to add a copy of this to your FTC filing and again hope you sell a whole lotta tips

I am a repair person and I install both Outsville and Ultraskins. Honestly I don't shoot with either. Both are really great for some and both I have been told are complete junk by others. I have played with both and honestly they both are really good tips.

With that being said, the very first time I talked to Tom. He told me that the tips where made in the USA and that is exactly what I have told all of my customers. Now I read a post where he says they are imported and it kind of irritates me.

Not because they are imported, I could care less about that. Kamui, Morri, and a slew of others are imported and I have no problem with them. My problem comes in with the fact that I was lied to and now I have in effect lied to a lot of customers Because I trusted Tom to tell me the truth.

I agree with Chris that if you are importing something you should be up front about it. I will continue to buy the ultra skins, because they are a decent tip, but the fact he made me lie, I will no longer push his tips, I will only install them on people who ask for them.

And I am thankful Chris brought this to everyone's attention. Had he not I never would have known and would have continued lying to everyone. Tom, if your tips are not made in USA own up to the fact. Don't tell people they are made in USA if they aren't. You have a quality tip. The fact that it is not made in USA is secondary to that. Push the merits of the tip themselves, and concentrate on that instead of telling people they are made in USA. It only makes you look deceptive by doing that. And from my dealings with you, you never struck me as that type of guy.

 

[TomHay]

Ummmmmmmm, during this fabrication you forgot some details. 1. I am 87% hearing impaired, my Cell phone is used 99% of the time as a mini computer and for texting, we never spoke on the phone. 2. I have never told anyone where they are made and 100%, never USA.

One of the main reasons I don't flash it all over the place is simply all tips are not made to equal standards. I do/did not want someone buying a tip, thinking it was the same as mine when it was not. This also leads installer to use my name on a sub par tip.

The hours of going back and forth saying you are close and helping tweek the tip to get it just how I wanted.

Lastly as you read, 4 years ago I went as far as even telling whom I buy the plastic sleeve bags from.

It boils down to, you like the hit, you don't like the hit. You buy or you don't buy. Tom says screw it, closes up as I am retired and customers come in wanting UltraSkins and you don't have them.

Common sense would dictate on my web site or any promotions I would have a little Made in USA sticker flag on everything. I do not and come to think of it many many other tips do not. But, after 5 years, Tom Hay is the number one guy to gang up on threads (by a few). Out of all this time I have had one big complaint thrown at me, the price I sell for is to low.

I am a repair person and I install both Outsville and Ultraskins. Honestly I don't shoot with either. Both are really great for some and both I have been told are complete junk by others. I have played with both and honestly they both are really good tips.

With that being said, the very first time I talked to Tom. He told me that the tips where made in the USA and that is exactly what I have told all of my customers. Now I read a post where he says they are imported and it kind of irritates me.

Not because they are imported, I could care less about that. Kamui, Morri, and a slew of others are imported and I have no problem with them. My problem comes in with the fact that I was lied to and now I have in effect lied to a lot of customers Because I trusted Tom to tell me the truth.

I agree with Chris that if you are importing something you should be up front about it. I will continue to buy the ultra skins, because they are a decent tip, but the fact he made me lie, I will no longer push his tips, I will only install them on people who ask for them.

And I am thankful Chris brought this to everyone's attention. Had he not I never would have known and would have continued lying to everyone. Tom, if your tips are not made in USA own up to the fact. Don't tell people they are made in USA if they aren't. You have a quality tip. The fact that it is not made in USA is secondary to that. Push the merits of the tip themselves, and concentrate on that instead of telling people they are made in USA. It only makes you look deceptive by doing that. And from my dealings with you, you never struck me as that type of guy.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

I am a repair person and I install both Outsville and Ultraskins. Honestly I don't shoot with either. Both are really great for some and both I have been told are complete junk by others. I have played with both and honestly they both are really good tips.

With that being said, the very first time I talked to Tom. He told me that the tips where made in the USA and that is exactly what I have told all of my customers. Now I read a post where he says they are imported and it kind of irritates me.

Not because they are imported, I could care less about that. Kamui, Morri, and a slew of others are imported and I have no problem with them. My problem comes in with the fact that I was lied to and now I have in effect lied to a lot of customers Because I trusted Tom to tell me the truth.

I agree with Chris that if you are importing something you should be up front about it. I will continue to buy the ultra skins, because they are a decent tip, but the fact he made me lie, I will no longer push his tips, I will only install them on people who ask for them.

And I am thankful Chris brought this to everyone's attention. Had he not I never would have known and would have continued lying to everyone. Tom, if your tips are not made in USA own up to the fact. Don't tell people they are made in USA if they aren't. You have a quality tip. The fact that it is not made in USA is secondary to that. Push the merits of the tip themselves, and concentrate on that instead of telling people they are made in USA. It only makes you look deceptive by doing that. And from my dealings with you, you never struck me as that type of guy.

This sounds made up to me, for two reasons. Either cameltoes, here, is just stirring shit or he's looking for a big discount from the other guy.
Pay no attention to what this man says.

 

[cammel8]

Ummmmmmmm, during this fabrication you forgot some details. 1. I am 87% hearing impaired, my Cell phone is used 99% of the time as a mini computer and for texting, we never spoke on the phone. 2. I have never told anyone where they are made and 100%, never USA.

One of the main reasons I don't flash it all over the place is simply all tips are not made to equal standards. I do/did not want someone buying a tip, thinking it was the same as mine when it was not. This also leads installer to use my name on a sub par tip.

The hours of going back and forth saying you are close and helping tweek the tip to get it just how I wanted.

Lastly as you read, 4 years ago I went as far as even telling whom I buy the plastic sleeve bags from.

It boils down to, you like the hit, you don't like the hit. You buy or you don't buy. Tom says screw it, closes up as I am retired and customers come in wanting UltraSkins and you don't have them.

Common sense would dictate on my web site or any promotions I would have a little Made in USA sticker flag on everything. I do not and come to think of it many many other tips do not. But, after 5 years, Tom Hay is the number one guy to gang up on threads (by a few). Out of all this time I have had one big complaint thrown at me, the price I sell for is to low.

First, I never said I spoke to you on the phone. It was either on here in private messages or in text. And since I can't find it on here it had to have been texts. I have never technically spoken to you. But we did have a conversation because I was asking you a bunch of questions. And it was years ago. But whatever I know I've talked to you. Call it a all you want.

And Cleveland steamer or whatever your name is. ( wow it is easy to say derogatory comments towards someone's name. Maybe next time you should take that into consideration when you try to be funny changing people's name when you have steamer in yours. I would rather be known as an outline of a woman's pussy than a pile of shit.)

Anyway, I Get my tips wholesale. I'm not getting them any cheaper no matter what. I spoke up because I don't like being deceived. Simple as that.

 

[TomHay]

Again, you wrote, "Talked To Tom". You now change and say it must have been a Text or PM.

No offence intented, but if you can't remember, maybe it did not go down quite as you say, or think. I will admit to shying away when asked where they are made but again i never told or wrote to you made in USA.

At present I have people calling my new tip Brown. It is not listed as brown, it is a light green but history will show for some reason I claimed Brown and as you can see from a very old post, I never went to directly decieve.

If you want, send any UltraSkins you have on hand back for a refund but I will need your name bought under Paypal to seek out the purchase and yes, right on here. I will scan Paypal and see how many and often you think you were decieved.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

Again, you wrote, "Talked To Tom". You now change and say it must have been a Text or PM.

No offence intented, but if you can't remember, maybe it did not go down quite as you say, or think. I will admit to shying away when asked where they are made but again i never told or wrote to you made in USA.

At present I have people calling my new tip Brown. It is not listed as brown, it is a light green but history will show for some reason I claimed Brown and as you can see from a very old post, I never went to directly decieve.

If you want, send any UltraSkins you have on hand back for a refund but I will need your name bought under Paypal to seek out the purchase and yes, right on here. I will scan Paypal and see how many and often you think you were decieved.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=281888

I just re-read most of that thread. Let's just say that four years later, the same issue is being brought up again. And on top of that it seems your memory has gone a little hazy to the facts. A simple question "do you make the tips or do you have them made" turned what should have been a page or two thread into that.

Tom no one is out to destroy you, people just want information. Instead you lead viscous tirades of personal attacks to attempt to defame their integrity so you can avoid answering the question. The question has always been: Where are the tips made? Yet it seems throughout this whole ordeal that out of all the petty things to take out of context, that's got to be the most absurd.

China or Japan?

 

[pocket]

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=281888

I just re-read most of that thread. Let's just say that four years later, the same issue is being brought up again. And on top of that it seems your memory has gone a little hazy to the facts. A simple question "do you make the tips or do you have them made" turned what should have been a page or two thread into that.

Tom no one is out to destroy you, people just want information. Instead you lead viscous tirades of personal attacks to attempt to defame their integrity so you can avoid answering the question. The question has always been: Where are the tips made? Yet it seems throughout this whole ordeal that out of all the petty things to take out of context, that's got to be the most absurd.

China or Japan?

It's been shown in this thread and the other referenced thread that they are imported? The only attack I've seen (and I'm a casual observer here) came from Renfro.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=281888
I just re-read most of that thread. Let's just say that four years later, the same issue is being brought up again. And on top of that it seems your memory has gone a little hazy to the facts. A simple question "do you make the tips or do you have them made" turned what should have been a page or two thread into that.
Tom no one is out to destroy you, people just want information. Instead you lead viscous tirades of personal attacks to attempt to defame their integrity so you can avoid answering the question. The question has always been: Where are the tips made? Yet it seems throughout this whole ordeal that out of all the petty things to take out of context, that's got to be the most absurd.
China or Japan?

Why would you care? What business is it of yours?
If you don't have a dog in this fight then stay the hell out of it.

 

[j2pac]

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=281888

I just re-read most of that thread. Let's just say that four years later, the same issue is being brought up again. And on top of that it seems your memory has gone a little hazy to the facts. A simple question "do you make the tips or do you have them made" turned what should have been a page or two thread into that.

Tom no one is out to destroy you, people just want information. Instead you lead viscous tirades of personal attacks to attempt to defame their integrity so you can avoid answering the question. The question has always been: Where are the tips made? Yet it seems throughout this whole ordeal that out of all the petty things to take out of context, that's got to be the most absurd.

China or Japan?

See post #42, sentence number 1. He answered the question. "He has the tips made to his specs, and personally backs each tip." As to the where it's made, I would say that is his business. You obviously know it's not made in the states, so you either like'em, or you don't. I have one of his soft tips on a shaft that Bob Dzuricky made for me, and it plays pretty darn well. I would also add that Tom has conducted himself as nothing short of a gentleman in any exchange that I have ever had with him. This is certainly something that he does not have to do, but it seems he is satisfying a good many folks, so the sour grapes that get posted here, seem to be just that. I am not a fire-starter, just lending an opinion. In closing, I haven't noticed Tom attempting to "defame" anyone here, but the man is certainly entitled to defend himself, and I believe he has done so admirably.
All the best.
j2

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

See post #42, sentence number 1. He answered the question. "He has the tips made to his specs, and personally backs each tip." As to the where it's made, I would say that is his business. You obviously know it's not made in the states, so you either like'em, or you don't. I have one of his soft tips on a shaft that Bob Dzuricky made for me, and it plays pretty darn well. I would also add that Tom has conducted himself as nothing short of a gentleman in any exchange that I have ever had with him. This is certainly something that he does not have to do, but it seems he is satisfying a good many folks, so the sour grapes that get posted here, seem to be just that. I am not a fire-starter, just lending an opinion. In closing, I haven't noticed Tom attempting to "defame" anyone here, but the man is certainly entitled to defend himself, and I believe he has done so admirably.
All the best.
j2

Did you miss the part where he has to insult people who don't use their real name? So just because I don't post with my real name doesn't mean Tom doesn't know my real name. In fact I even bought some of these SiB tips just because I could. Why did I do that? Well because it shouldn't take a $20 tip in order to get some consistency from a product. Do I agree with how Tom has responded to all these comments? Hell no.

As for where the tips come from I don't really care, but the courts may. Not my decision to make on how he has to run his business. Some people, myself included, won't care where the origin of the tips is. What I do care about though is when someone is asked a question. Rather than answer that they attempt to insult the person asking the question. That's what Tom did four years ago, and is doing now.

It's like OB Cues saying their new Digicuethingamabob is made in the USA. It's not. It's assembled in the USA from sourced parts from overseas. The only USA made piece is the plastic shell, which is going to be sourced from plastic pellets from overseas. Just like how my iPhone says designed in California and assembled in China on it. People in general are dumb and believe what they want for their reasons. If having "Made in USA" branded on a product is enough to convince them it's quality, I'll sell them everything I own that's made in the USA for their premium quality product price.

Tom does USA standard of quality control on the tips he buys, which is good enough to me. And better than the quality control I've seen come out of Chris. Which is another can of worms....

 

[j2pac]

Did you miss the part where he has to insult people who don't use their real name? So just because I don't post with my real name doesn't mean Tom doesn't know my real name. In fact I even bought some of these SiB tips just because I could. Why did I do that? Well because it shouldn't take a $20 tip in order to get some consistency from a product. Do I agree with how Tom has responded to all these comments? Hell no.

As for where the tips come from I don't really care, but the courts may. Not my decision to make on how he has to run his business. Some people, myself included, won't care where the origin of the tips is. What I do care about though is when someone is asked a question. Rather than answer that they attempt to insult the person asking the question. That's what Tom did four years ago, and is doing now.

It's like OB Cues saying their new Digicuethingamabob is made in the USA. It's not. It's assembled in the USA from sourced parts from overseas. The only USA made piece is the plastic shell, which is going to be sourced from plastic pellets from overseas. Just like how my iPhone says designed in California and assembled in China on it. People in general are dumb and believe what they want for their reasons. If having "Made in USA" branded on a product is enough to convince them it's quality, I'll sell them everything I own that's made in the USA for their premium quality product price.

Tom does USA standard of quality control on the tips he buys, which is good enough to me. And better than the quality control I've seen come out of Chris. Which is another can of worms....

I think you missed the part where it hasn't been Tom who has insulted anyone so far in this thread. There has been a poster in this thread, who has ad-libed a few AZB usernames, but I certainly don't think it was Tom.
All the best.
Joe P.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

I think you missed the part where it hasn't been Tom who has insulted anyone. There has been a poster who was adlibing names, but I certainly don't think it was Tom.
All the best.
Joe P.

You see that link I dug up and posted? Why don't you go read for a bit and see what Tom had to say, and what he referred to me and another poster as. I've never called him anything else(a sign of respect) but he couldn't even be bothered to respond to me by name.

 

[j2pac]

You see that link I dug up and posted? Why don't you go read for a bit and see what Tom had to say, and what he referred to me and another poster as. I've never called him anything else(a sign of respect) but he couldn't even be bothere to responded to me by name.

No thanks. I am only referring to this thread. This is not my fight, and I certainly don't care about 4 years ago. Whatever the issue is, it seems to have been resolved. The question seems to have been answered. I wish you a good day Sir.
Best regards.
Joe P.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

I think you missed the part where it hasn't been Tom who has insulted anyone so far in this thread. There has been a poster in this thread, who has ad-libed a few AZB usernames, but I certainly don't think it was Tom.
All the best.
Joe P.

Ad libber, you say? As in Cameltoe, and Rentfree? Yes, that would be me.
This attack on Tom is wholly without merit, and will be met in kind.
Lose the hounds.

 

[TomHay]

I had filled my PM Box, signed out and saw the above. I would like to address it if I may.

I am sorry, I do not know who everyones name is, I have 2,000 customers and a hard time remembering my own sometimes.

On the 4 year old thread we are speaking Agent17 whom on my tips sort of disappeared into the night and if you read the thread he first tried to coax me into big deal investors if it was a 100% Tom Hay product. I think anyone who knows of me can tell my reason to start with was for the Cue Repair person, quality with breathing room.

Agent 17 than slammed my butt for not giving him an immediate reply. I explained I read about a 2 day rule for sales, I was new, read it and thought it meant any sales. I think for anyone reading this today and going back to that thread will see it. My back was up against a wall and natural insticts kick in, you want to fight away from the wall plus it takes a bit to calm down, reason for my self inflicted time out.

Like many sellers here I did a search on myself and products, This thread popped up and I noticed two things from the go. One that it was a brown tip, which I never put as brown, it is light green. The other was Chris was going to do tests on it to make sure it checked out 100% to old Mooris. I never said that either, I stated it was designed for people who like the old Moori Style Hit and G@ as this leather plays more like them and nothing like an UltraSkin or say Kamui type hit. You can travel around the WWW, to my Web Site and never will you see Made in USA.

Is there a fear factor? Yep, you can take different parts of a whole pig leather and obtain different results. This is why some parts of the Pig Leather sell for more. The leather than goes through treatments, sometimes two and even the dye can cause a chemical reaction to change play.

Now I say I get mine from ---------------. Others go there and next thing you know a tip I was offering like the Oinkers for $1.00 per retail will be dyed black and sold for $8.95 per tip. I mean it has to play better, it cost $8.95. The results? ALL black tips play bad and thats when it hurts everyone. I am no Hero but will promise in some way or another it has happened to about all the Cue Repair people in here. I am but an older guy that can barely walk (hoping part of that can be fixed in September who saw a way to stay associated in a game/sport he was in most of his life and give a good deal to boot.

I hear about me going ablaze insulting people? I have read some endless threads of bashing I wouldn't let a child read.

Well thats it, signing off for a while, best to all.