BCA Nationals 8 Ball - Fargo Discrepancy

mikepage said:
What I am saying is that if the starter rating was 525 instead of 625, then his official rating would be about 600 rather about 650. So if in fact his starter rating was changed--what appears to have happened, then he was placed in the correct division and there was no error at all
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His rating on the entree site of the BCAPL was 603. It was not a starter rating of 625. Somehow he got a rating on their site 50 points lower than the FargoRate site. He is still listed as 603 if you go to the BCAPL site that shows the entrees at the bottom of the page. Joe Pierce II. 603. Second place mixed 8 ball gold singles. I sent you a screen shot on Facebook messenger so you can see it.

So where did the 603 come from? It as not 525. It was not 625. It was not 651.
 
robsnotes4u said:
Doesn't sound like a FargoRate issue. It sounds like a CSI question

Before everyone gets all bent out of shape ask yourself if you have ever made a mistake. It looks like it could have been an honest mistake


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Honest mistake? I don't think so. I believe Mr. Pierce knows what his real Fargo rating is. I think at least someone knew he was Platinum level when they assigned that 625 starter rating. I think he knew all along he was a Platinum player playing in the Gold division and decided to capitalize on CSI's error. In my opinion that is not an honest mistake. In my opinion it is cheating. In my opinion CSI should reclaim his payout and send an $8 refund to everyone in that division.

If you are referring to CSI's blunder as an honest mistake, I don't think so on that one either. Apparently there are no checks or validation in the CSI Fargo lookup and/or data entry process. It is particularly disturbing that no one from FargoRate, CSI, or Bad Boys will step up, own the mistake and resolve to correct the flawed process.
 
SWRLE said:
Honest mistake? I don't think so. I believe Mr. Pierce knows what his real Fargo rating is. I think at least someone knew he was Platinum level when they assigned that 625 starter rating. I think he knew all along he was a Platinum player playing in the Gold division and decided to capitalize on CSI's error. In my opinion that is not an honest mistake. In my opinion it is cheating. In my opinion CSI should reclaim his payout and send an $8 refund to everyone in that division.



If you are referring to CSI's blunder as an honest mistake, I don't think so on that one either. Apparently there are no checks or validation in the CSI Fargo lookup and/or data entry process. It is particularly disturbing that no one from FargoRate, CSI, or Bad Boys will step up, own the mistake and resolve to correct the flawed process.
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More disturbing is you libeling all entities with out any factual argument.


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mikepage said:
They are not completely different things. But they are separate. What that means is there is a syncing that goes on, and CSI is the "master" for starter ratings. That syncing and our ratings were FROZEN during the event. So anything that happened in the CSI database once things were frozen did not get pushed out to us.

I have no idea what happened here and I haven't had a conversation with anybody about it. It is possible his starter rating was lowered from 625 to 525 [the equivalent of in the old days being lowered from Advanced to Open].

The only tournament history we have for him is in the Open division from 3 years ago--and he finished 33-48. So I don't know--maybe there was a review with his league operator. I just don't know.

I wouldn't even respond after your "I call BS" comment. I have no idea what I might have done in the 15 years I've been posting on pool forums to get that. But other people are reading this, and that is why I responded.
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Yes it looks like that is what happened. If you start him at 525 and use the same actuals his transitional rating becomes 603. But now the question is why was his starter changed to 525 when his 104 actuals were played at a 675 level?
 
watchez said:
His rating on the entree site of the BCAPL was 603. It was not a starter rating of 625. Somehow he got a rating on their site 50 points lower than the FargoRate site. He is still listed as 603 if you go to the BCAPL site that shows the entrees at the bottom of the page. Joe Pierce II. 603. Second place mixed 8 ball gold singles. I sent you a screen shot on Facebook messenger so you can see it.

So where did the 603 come from? It as not 525. It was not 625. It was not 651.
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He answered your question. Someone changed the starter rating to 525 and recalculated his preliminary rating to be 603 based on his 104 games played at a 675 level. What's not being addressed is why someone overrode the initial starter rating, why 675 actuals should be reduced arbitrarily to 603, and why the Fargo database still shows 625 if it was "corrected" by CSI.
 
So what is the reasoning for pushing the Fargo rating on us to go by if in fact there is another system by CSI?When got to CSI page it sas check your fargo.How can i check what CSI uses?Or am I just confused ha ha
 
Put_upor_shutup said:
So what is the reasoning for pushing the Fargo rating on us to go by if in fact there is another system by CSI?When got to CSI page it sas check your fargo.How can i check what CSI uses?Or am I just confused ha ha
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There is no other system. A tournament director has the right to change anyone's rating to anything they deem appropriate if they feel it is wrong. Until it is explained why CSI changed his starter rating from 625 to 525 all the data suggests Mr. Pierce is a strong Platinum player, That data includes his 651 Fargo rating, his 625 initial starter placement, his 104 games played at a 675 level, and his overall performance in the tournament which appears to be at a 660+ level.

Edit: The video below tells the story. Travesty.
 
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SWRLE said:
There is no other system. A tournament director has the right to change anyone's rating to anything they deem appropriate if they feel it is wrong. Until it is explained why CSI changed his starter rating from 625 to 525 all the data suggests Mr. Pierce is a strong Platinum player, That data includes his 651 Fargo rating, his 625 initial starter placement, his 104 games played at a 675 level, and his overall performance in the tournament which appears to be at a 660+ level.
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ok thank you
 
nine_ball6970 said:
I am not sure why this has not been answered considering it was the original question, but I am interested in why Joe Pierce was allowed to play in the Gold division being rated 650+ in Fargo.
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Anyone have a pic of this Joe Pierce fellow or knows what he looked like? I know obviously more than 1 person have the same name, only curious because here in Bmore we also have a Joe Pierce that's pretty heavy into leagues and the 650 ish ranking sounds like it would be right around his speed.
 
SWRLE said:
He answered your question. Someone changed the starter rating to 525 and recalculated his preliminary rating to be 603 based on his 104 games played at a 675 level. What's not being addressed is why someone overrode the initial starter rating, why 675 actuals should be reduced arbitrarily to 603, and why the Fargo database still shows 625 if it was "corrected" by CSI.
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Ok thanks for the explanation. I didn't understand Mike Page explanation. But I am still confused because not all players that were given a starter rating and then played games under FargoRate prior to the BCAPL had their starter rating adjusted. I know one player that was given a starter rating, played games that were entered into FargoRate ----his FargoRate went down to actually reflecting that he started with a zero rating but his CSI FargoRate stayed the same.

I said it prior to BCAPL --- having two rating systems, one for FargoRate and one for CSI FargoRate was a mistake.
 
BmoreMoney said:
Anyone have a pic of this Joe Pierce fellow or knows what he looked like? I know obviously more than 1 person have the same name, only curious because here in Bmore we also have a Joe Pierce that's pretty heavy into leagues and the 650 ish ranking sounds like it would be right around his speed.
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Unlikely your guy. Joe Pierce II is from Sheperdsville, KY.
 
BmoreMoney said:
Anyone have a pic of this Joe Pierce fellow or knows what he looked like? I know obviously more than 1 person have the same name, only curious because here in Bmore we also have a Joe Pierce that's pretty heavy into leagues and the 650 ish ranking sounds like it would be right around his speed.
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How about the video of this year's gold finals between Pierce and Cearley?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96NeKejQB6M


Pierce is third from left

michaels-720.jpg
 
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SWRLE said:
There is no other system. A tournament director has the right to change anyone's rating to anything they deem appropriate if they feel it is wrong. Until it is explained why CSI changed his starter rating from 625 to 525 all the data suggests Mr. Pierce is a strong Platinum player, That data includes his 651 Fargo rating, his 625 initial starter placement, his 104 games played at a 675 level, and his overall performance in the tournament which appears to be at a 660+ level.

Edit: The video below tells the story. Travesty.
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Russ beat him and that is data which cannot be ignored. If he was so good that wouldn't have happened. The strongest players in the gold were low six hundreds. Joe played a hell of a tournament, just like Russ did.

End of story.

JC
 
JC said:
Russ beat him and that is data which cannot be ignored. If he was so good that wouldn't have happened. The strongest players in the gold were low six hundreds. Joe played a hell of a tournament, just like Russ did.

End of story.

JC
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Oh I totally agree. He just played in the wrong division. If you don't think so simply explain who changed his starter rating from 625 to 525 and why. That will end the story.
 
SWRLE said:
Oh I totally agree. He just played in the wrong division. If you don't think so simply explain who changed his starter rating from 625 to 525 and why. That will end the story.
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I did it., because of his record in the BCA before.

There is your answer


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mikepage said:
They are not completely different things. But they are separate. What that means is there is a syncing that goes on, and CSI is the "master" for starter ratings. That syncing and our ratings were FROZEN during the event. So anything that happened in the CSI database once things were frozen did not get pushed out to us.

I have no idea what happened here and I haven't had a conversation with anybody about it. It is possible his starter rating was lowered from 625 to 525 [the equivalent of in the old days being lowered from Advanced to Open].

The only tournament history we have for him is in the Open division from 3 years ago--and he finished 33-48. So I don't know--maybe there was a review with his league operator. I just don't know.

I wouldn't even respond after your "I call BS" comment. I have no idea what I might have done in the 15 years I've been posting on pool forums to get that. But other people are reading this, and that is why I responded.
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Don't think the BS call was about you or Fargo, Mike. Sorry you took offense. This was a CSI override on the starter rating sometimes referred to as an honest mistake and at other times referred to as based on some "BCA results" you don't have. Whatever the case we appreciate your keeping the database pure and based on actual objective results.
 
robsnotes4u said:
I did it., because of his record in the BCA before.

There is your answer


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Was that supposed to say "CSI did it", or did you really mean "I did it". If it is the second, none of your previous comments in this thread make any sense.

In any event, whoever made the decision, I really wish they would explain it - what was the reasoning, what record are they talking about, why was he rated 625 to start with, etc. I support what FargoRate is trying to do, and think CSI is a good organization, but this was the first real test of the system and people have raised legitimate questions that should be answered. For the system to be accepted, it has not only BE fair, but it also has to APPEAR to be fair.
 
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