APA Racking Question

sixwillwin said:
Ok. I have played in a APA league for a couple years now. I enjoy it but I don't agree with a lot of the rules They have in place. And your opponent racking for your break is one of them. We have many people that will intentionally try to give you a lose rack. And then they get all offended when you look at it or asked for a rerack. All this nonsense could be avoided by rack your own break. And not having to call pockets on the shots just invites bangers to play their game.
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Of course it invites the bangers. It's been widely discussed here that The APA is geared toward the less skilled player.
My thought is that the loser racking is a good thing, at least for The APA, maybe not so for other leagues. Loser racking is a sort of traditional part of American pool, and as the winner I'd rather have my opponent racking for me, but admittedly I'm far less skilled than many of you.
 
to the OP...just be glad you're getting thrown against high ranks. those slug racks hurt way worse when you're playing a low rank and it's a 5-2 race or something like that. haha
it's worth a shot talking to the LO, but don't hold your breath. apa folks aren't typically real receptive to questions and comments about things that make the matches more enjoyable to the better player. they are more concerned about the bangers, and i get it...that's who makes their leagues work.
 
Zphix said:
Sup gents,

I was playing last night and the guy I played was giving me bad racks; whether on purpose or accident I don't know but, after the 2nd rack I started to inspect and ask for re-racks. After 5 re-racks I said forget it and moved to second ball break to try to mitigate the bad rack but it didn't help.

So, basically, is there any rule where you can rack your own and have the opponent inspect it and give it an okay? After leagues last night I went out with a few people who really know how to play and my B&R rate went up alot because they know how to rack properly.

I'm not against earning a win but to have 10 innings per game because the break ends up looking more like straight pool then 8-ball kinda bugs me. Plus, there's no 3-foul otherwise my opponent would have lost swiftly instead of things being dragged out forever.

Just asking :)

-Richard
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Hey Richard,

Sometimes league is frustrating for sure. I've played in almost all leagues over the years and run across some colorful characters. What you have to remember is, playing league is just a means to an end. The only reason to play league is to qualify for Vegas and playing in Nationals.
So, that being said, just try to have fun during league. Yeah, you want to play well but don't sweat the small stuff. When you get to Nationals, that's where you want to take it a lil more serious and watch the racks..
Have Fun.....
 
Seems like the general consensus is to acknowledge that it happens and move on from it; if that's the case then I can definitely do that :thumbup:

Talked to the LO, and as expected, it seemed like it was in one ear and out the other.

I'll say one more thing though; what bugged me most was that there are almost no tools available to the better player aside from skill. I take the time and innings to play safeties, free up my balls, etc. and my opponent can spend an endless amount of innings clustering my balls back up so the better player cannot even use a 3-foul against a player of relative skill.

Oh well, I still won my match and the games where I racked and he broke dry or missed I was out in an inning.
 
Skippy27 said:
So this is only a problem on Valleys?

I must of be imagining things when I have a hard time on Diamonds.
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Please, let me rephrase.
In my experience it's more typical of the Valleys. That just seems to be the more common table in a bar, at least here anyway. I think we have one APA location with Diamonds, that place isn't in our division and hasn't been for a couple of years.
My experience with Diamonds is fairly limited, but in the past ,when we played on them they seemed to rack a little better.
If you are imagining things maybe you need to up your meds :D
 
Zphix said:
Sup gents,

I was playing last night and the guy I played was giving me bad racks; whether on purpose or accident I don't know but, after the 2nd rack I started to inspect and ask for re-racks. After 5 re-racks I said forget it and moved to second ball break to try to mitigate the bad rack but it didn't help.

So, basically, is there any rule where you can rack your own and have the opponent inspect it and give it an okay? After leagues last night I went out with a few people who really know how to play and my B&R rate went up alot because they know how to rack properly.

I'm not against earning a win but to have 10 innings per game because the break ends up looking more like straight pool then 8-ball kinda bugs me. Plus, there's no 3-foul otherwise my opponent would have lost swiftly instead of things being dragged out forever.

Just asking :)

-Richard
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The only rule about racking in the APA is that the default is the opponent racks, and you can request and receive a rerack.

Having spoken to many APA refs including the head ref in Vegas, if the players agree, they can rack their own.

I don't really care much in 8 ball, because there are many bad racks that can be exploited with a 2nd ball break. In 9 ball I always ask my opponent to rack our own. The people that rack bad don't want to do this, because it takes away one of their advantages! For some the goal is to have a good tight rack. For others, the goal is to slow down your opponent at any cost.

KMRUNOUT
 
lorider said:
Before I come across as being negative let me make this comment. You say you are 21 and already one of the stronger players in your league ? Well I admire your dedication to learning the game and progressing as far as you have at such a young age.

Yes it is kind of hit or miss when you have you opponent rack in for you. You made your opponent rerack 5 times huh ? Let me make a suggestion here. Lighten up or quit leagues and just pls rack your own tournaments .you are coming across as too serious about your game in a league filled with low level players that just want to have fun playing pool.

Now I am not saying you are wrong in your beliefs but it does not fit in with the more social playing crowd and thus the negativity displayed towards you.

I never inspect racks before I break...except at playoffs or higher level tournaments. As a result I do get slug racks occasionally but I believe the better player always wins.

One night playing 8 ball I made a break and run the first rack. I broke and ran the 2 ND rack all the way to my last ball where I dogged it trying to get shape on the 8. Still won that rack. I scratched in the left side pocket the next 2 racks on the break but still won both. I broke from the same spot and the same speed all 4 racks. Do I believe there was son rack rigging going on the last 2 racks? You betcha but I still won.

Here is another situation.

My team mate is a 5 and playing 9 ball. He made 4 9 on the snaps in a row..

1. The 9 plus 4 balls
2. The 9 plus 3 balls
3. The 9 plus 3 balls
4. The 9 plus one ball

Guess who was racking ? A 2 lol .

Again I say lighten up and save the rack checking for when it really matters and I believe you will see a change in your opponents attitude..
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Sounds like in the last 2 8 ball breaks you hit the front ball off center and lost your cue ball. So regardless of the rack, that was going on.

Also, in that 9 ball scenario I'd be pissed. So that 19 points over those 4 racks. If I make a ball and can see the one, I'm a good bet to be out. That would be 40 points. So that crappy racking may have cost me 21 points. Playing a 2 that is tough to fade. That is her whole match right there!

That being said, I played a strong 7 in 9 ball, and he was racking pretty bad. I decided for the hell of it I was just going to break every rack the best I could no matter how bad. I made a ball almost every time and won the match 17-3 lol. 4 or 5 break and runs. Maybe it really doesn't matter?


KMRUNOUT
 
Zphix said:
Sup gents,

I was playing last night and the guy I played was giving me bad racks; whether on purpose or accident I don't know but, after the 2nd rack I started to inspect and ask for re-racks. After 5 re-racks I said forget it and moved to second ball break to try to mitigate the bad rack but it didn't help.

So, basically, is there any rule where you can rack your own and have the opponent inspect it and give it an okay? After leagues last night I went out with a few people who really know how to play and my B&R rate went up alot because they know how to rack properly.

I'm not against earning a win but to have 10 innings per game because the break ends up looking more like straight pool then 8-ball kinda bugs me. Plus, there's no 3-foul otherwise my opponent would have lost swiftly instead of things being dragged out forever.

Just asking :)

-Richard
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The rule of thumb is to stop playing kiddie APA rules and start playing in the BCAPL or any other league that does not make a mockery of the rules of our sport.
 
sbpoolleague said:
The rule of thumb is to stop playing kiddie APA rules and start playing in the BCAPL or any other league that does not make a mockery of the rules of our sport.
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Dude you are slacking up . It took a whole 28 posts I this thread before you numped in with your bi assed opinion :grin-square:
 
lorider said:
Dude you are slacking up . It took a whole 28 posts I this thread before you numped in with your bi assed opinion :grin-square:
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Just got back from a long trip. Haven't bashed on the APA for well over a week. Getting queasy from the withdrawals. :smile:
 
KMRUNOUT said:
If there is, then the breaker did it to himself, because BCA is all rack you own.

KMRUNOUT
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When you say bca are you referring to bcapl ? When I played in bcapl some years back it was loser racks..

Just to clarify something when you say its all rack your own ....bcapl lo's are free to rum their local league under any structure they want so I highly doubt they all rack their own .

At nationals it may be true as they gave different rules enforced rules enforced there but definitely not at the local level.
 
KMRUNOUT said:
If there is, then the breaker did it to himself, because BCA is all rack you own.

KMRUNOUT
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KMRUNOUT said:
Sounds like in the last 2 8 ball breaks you hit the front ball off center and lost your cue ball. So regardless of the rack, that was going on.

Also, in that 9 ball scenario I'd be pissed. So that 19 points over those 4 racks. If I make a ball and can see the one, I'm a good bet to be out. That would be 40 points. So that crappy racking may have cost me 21 points. Playing a 2 that is tough to fade. That is her whole match right there!

That being said, I played a strong 7 in 9 ball, and he was racking pretty bad. I decided for the hell of it I was just going to break every rack the best I could no matter how bad. I made a ball almost every time and won the match 17-3 lol. 4 or 5 break and runs. Maybe it really doesn't matter?


KMRUNOUT
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I think you misunderstood my post. The 5 made all those breaks. The 2 never got to break once. The 5 won 38-4.

I also happened to beat a 7 by 17-3 couple of weeks ago. The score was 38-23. The main reason I was able to do it was his lousy breaks. The cue ball flew off the table twice and he scratched once. Yea I racked tight...cant help it if he bit at warp speed every rack. He did manage to get 2 break and runs breaking like that though.

When the lo got the scoresheet he txt mw and asked how the hell I beat him that bad. I replied ....easy with getting bih 4 times when he broke :smile:
 
Both methods, rack your own and loser racks, have their downsides. The "loser racks" method suffers from 1) slug racks, 2) excessive delays between games because the breaker needs everything perfect, and 3) breaker using the re-rack requests as a shark maneuver. "Rack your own" suffers from pattern racking and tilted racks.

When any of these issues come up in a tournament, I address it with the following method of racking. 1) Loser fills the rack to prevent patterns, 2) Breaker tightens the rack to prevent slugs and excessive re-rack requests, then 3) Loser inspects the rack for tilt or other trickeration. This usually stops all complaints and delays, and seems like a good compromise between two less-than-perfect rules regarding who racks.

No rules are perfect. No organization is perfect. Anyone who fails to see that is just blind, and anyone who refers to the adult members of an organization as "kiddies" is just resorting to insults to cover their own inadequacies.
 
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